• Hello Guest, welcome to the initial stages of our new platform!
    You can find some additional information about where we are in the process of migrating the board and setting up our new software here

    Thank you for being a part of our community!

Groove Results - Tried & tested

fryea said:
very very nice, well done

I think im going to try the groove setup you used.

What tools and how deep/long did you make yours?

Going to re-do the headgasket in the near future, so I want to try some grooooooves while im at it (and maybe a mild polish of the ports)
Click to expand...

Lenght 1,5 mm short of the gasket.
Depth The bottom of the grove aligns with the end of the center elektrode of the sparkplug.
Tools
Hacksaw blade and a triangular file, Nothing special.

Morten
 
Morten VJ said:
...AFR before at cruise 16-1
After at cruise 17.5-1 and nothing strange drivability problems.
I'm going to try 18-1 next week if I can burn it.Morten
Click to expand...

This is awesome, exactly what I want to accomplish. Morten, it sounds like you have altered the lean burn limits, do keep us informed of progress.

If miss-fire at lean ratios becomes a problem, consider a H2 generator. A bit of hydrogen in the mix should assure ignition.

I think I'll order a wide band O2 meter today!
 
automotivebreath said:
High compression grooved SBC engines with a long duration camshaft and a tight lobe separation produces a sort of crackle.
Click to expand...


Hi AB, I followed you here from SpeedTalk (I rarely post there but read everything on it, I find some of the names and knowledge on there a bit intimidating !).

I recently built a new combo based around my old SBC but with more cam, comp and cubes. Not heaps more but 10 degrees @ 050, 0.5 and an overbore. I couldn't resist the groove modification and took to my Sportsman II's with a 4" angle grinder. I took the engine (fitted to my car) to the chassis dyno I always use to set baselines and load up a bit for run-in. Benefits I noticed were definately the improved idle (despite 10 degrees more at 050 on the intake and 4 degrees tighter separation than my previous cam)and the fact that the engine appears more responsive to tuning changes (particularly idle mixture).

In reference to your quote above, the dyno operator was intruiged by the exhaust note, he reckoned it was the best sounding thing they had ever had there !!!

I might try to find your email address and send you a pic of the chambers I grooved, if you are interested.

Thanks AB for sharing your knowledge and thanks Volvo owners for letting me post on your site, good to see so many people trying this modification for themselves and not dismissing it without a second thought.

Thanks again.
 
Unregistered said:
I might try to find your email address and send you a pic of the chambers I grooved, if you are interested.

Thanks AB for sharing your knowledge and thanks Volvo owners for letting me post on your site, good to see so many people trying this modification for themselves and not dismissing it without a second thought.

Thanks again.
Click to expand...

Yes I'm intrested, send the pictures to:

Automotivebreath@hotmail.com
 
What type of a timing curve were you able to run? My vortec heads (fast burn type) seem to like 10 deg idle + 8 deg vacuum and 32 deg total all in by 3000 rpm. Were you able to go lower than that?


Unregistered said:
Hi AB, I followed you here from SpeedTalk (I rarely post there but read everything on it, I find some of the names and knowledge on there a bit intimidating !).

I recently built a new combo based around my old SBC but with more cam, comp and cubes. Not heaps more but 10 degrees @ 050, 0.5 and an overbore. I couldn't resist the groove modification and took to my Sportsman II's with a 4" angle grinder. I took the engine (fitted to my car) to the chassis dyno I always use to set baselines and load up a bit for run-in. Benefits I noticed were definately the improved idle (despite 10 degrees more at 050 on the intake and 4 degrees tighter separation than my previous cam)and the fact that the engine appears more responsive to tuning changes (particularly idle mixture).

In reference to your quote above, the dyno operator was intruiged by the exhaust note, he reckoned it was the best sounding thing they had ever had there !!!

I might try to find your email address and send you a pic of the chambers I grooved, if you are interested.

Thanks AB for sharing your knowledge and thanks Volvo owners for letting me post on your site, good to see so many people trying this modification for themselves and not dismissing it without a second thought.

Thanks again.
Click to expand...
 
I have to admit, I was pretty skeptical of this groove thing at first. I'm amazed that it seems to works so well, and not in some unsubstantiated 'my tornado and fuel line magnets improved my mileage 45%!!!!!111' manner either.
 
JohnMc said:
... and not in some unsubstantiated 'my tornado and fuel line magnets improved my mileage 45%!!!!!111'
Click to expand...

Tried that mod ... spent hours inserting the magnets inside the fuel hoses. A Tight fit. Petrol consumption on my car was reduced to zero. The AA trucks consumption went up though, and the AA man suggested I try the magnets on the outside of the hoses ....

:-P
 
Last edited:
Excitement about grooves is killing me

I know this thread is actually meant for people who have done the grooves to post their results, but I've been watching with great interest and the excitement is killing me. I can no longer resist posting some questions about the results.

Morten VJ said:
After 2 weeks of driving with the groves.
AFR before at cruise 16-1
After at cruise 17.5-1 and nothing strange drivability problems.
I'm going to try 18-1 next week if i can burn it.
Click to expand...


Morten,

U mentioned no strange drivability problems. When you lean out to 17.5:1 does the car become sluggish in any way? I'm interested to know because this is what would happen when I lean out the mixture on my car (haven't grooved it yet of course). Around what ratio do u begin to lose torque [EDIT: or perceive a loss]?
 
rkr said:
What type of a timing curve were you able to run? My vortec heads (fast burn type) seem to like 10 deg idle + 8 deg vacuum and 32 deg total all in by 3000 rpm. Were you able to go lower than that?
Click to expand...

To be honest I haven't even experimented with timing, I just set it at the 20 initial, 34 total, all in at 3000 that I always run. I should make it to the track in the next week or so and I will try dropping some more out of it.
 
Alidrus
I'm having the bennefit of a programmable EMS.
Also called Megasquirt, this allows me to program any Afr to any load and rpm.
And i'm using a turbo.
You are stuck with the factory fuel curve, and a Na engine, so i doubt you can lean it to the same ekstreem.
Power loss isn't a problem in my case, as i just have to press a littel bit harder on the fun pedal.


BR

Morten
 
Unregistered said:
To be honest I haven't even experimented with timing, I just set it at the 20 initial, 34 total, all in at 3000 that I always run. I should make it to the track in the next week or so and I will try dropping some more out of it.
Click to expand...

Do let us know how it goes. If you get higher MPH with less timing and leaner mixture it would definately mean the grooves have altered the burn event and given you more power.
 
Results

Morten VJ said:
Alidrus
I'm having the bennefit of a programmable EMS.
Also called Megasquirt, this allows me to program any Afr to any load and rpm.
Click to expand...


So in other words, your EMS is compensating for the change in AFR somehow. Not quite the kind of results I was looking for, but thanks for entertaining my queries.

* I do know what MS is and have plans to go with that later but I am keeping my options open for the time being. Anyway, I'll continue discussion on the other thread unless some other interesting results appear here.

Thanks again.
 
alidrus said:
So in other words, your EMS is compensating for the change in AFR somehow. Not quite the kind of results I was looking for...
Thanks again.
Click to expand...

No I think the grooves are compensating for the AFR.

They seem to have the effect of reducing detonation, making a better mix, and in my unevidenced view, cooling hotspots such as the spark plug electrode avoiding pinging /detonation. The EMS (MS) is just alowing the mixture to be set (leaned out) in this case.

Please correct me if Im wrong.
 
Morten, do you have any pics of the grooves? What shape are the pistons? Are they dished, flat, reverse dome?

You use the same advance tables after the grooves?

220KPa for boost? Wow! That is 32psi, if my math is right. That would be crazy high for the setup I drive (Chrysler 2.2 Turbo Intercooled).

I have just started playing with custom calibrations for ECU. No wide band yet. But the EGTs are still low.
 
scotts said:
Morten, do you have any pics of the grooves? What shape are the pistons? Are they dished, flat, reverse dome?

You use the same advance tables after the grooves?

220KPa for boost? Wow! That is 32psi, if my math is right. That would be crazy high for the setup I drive (Chrysler 2.2 Turbo Intercooled).

I have just started playing with custom calibrations for ECU. No wide band yet. But the EGTs are still low.
Click to expand...

In post 40 there are pictures.
dished pistons 9.0 c.r.

well i'm still playing with the numbers off boost.
In boost i'm using the same numbers but i'm using a lower grade fuel


220 Kpa is 17.6 psi
Volvo used 12 psi but on a higer grade fuel



Morten
 
xwave said:
No I think the grooves are compensating for the AFR.

They seem to have the effect of reducing detonation, making a better mix, and in my unevidenced view, cooling hotspots such as the spark plug electrode avoiding pinging /detonation. The EMS (MS) is just alowing the mixture to be set (leaned out) in this case.

Please correct me if Im wrong.
Click to expand...

Not a correction, just another view.

Think of the groove as a method of increasing flame intensity.

When I was a scout I learned early on that you could burn wet wood if you were able to get a good initial blaze going to heat the wet wood. In the combustion chamber the groove provides mixture movement to increase early flame intensity, this facilitates a more complete burn even when air/fuel mixtures are less than ideal. An intense flame burns quickly transferring less heat to the combustion chamber surfaces.
 
Thanks for the info Morten and the conversion correction :D. My setup is 12psi stock as well on the higher grade of fuel. With my grooves I have not been able to use lower grade of gas with out knock retard. My C/R is 8.6 with dished pistons as well. I have been leaning towards I may need to change the shape/size of the grooves I have.

Does the Volvo have a knock sensor? Do you monitor it?

Pic of my forged dished pistons
http://www.sheenconsulting.com/car/pics/wiescopiston1.JPG About the same squish area as your dished?

Pic of my heads grooves
http://www.sheenconsulting.com/car/pics/SinghsGrooves2.JPG

Here is my site about the car.
www.sheenconsulting.com/car
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top