So I did something stupid

Okay, the only thing I know about the ECU is it has, as best I can tell, "John Dillon" written on both broad sides of the ECU..

blkaplan said:

don't forget the delrin subframe bushings. makes a world of difference

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Can't stress this enough. Admittedly, I had already popped for the IPD poly inserts into the existing mounts (which were in pretty amazing shape on mine) when I found out about these. The difference is considerable either route you go.

DMFWallace said:

Haven't been getting on the car much because of the bad vac elbow. Things are still going smooth though. Has a little whine on cold start. Sounds like PS pump noise but I want to take the serp belt off and check the idler. Maybe turbo? Idk. Haven't really investigated yet. Still solid though. Pulls 20 inches cold and hot in park, little less than that in gear.

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My R has something similar, but it sounds mechanical (see #7 below). I warm it up religiously and drive easy for the first mile or three. Once that's done, it's on!

Now that I got the old lady an LR3, I'm going to keep the motor and tranny from her T5 as backups (maybe even rebuild both).

Yours is absolutely gorgeous in white BTW!

Anyway, my feelings on P80 R ownership.

1) Awesome part throttle poke! Great for tighter technical roads where you still want some thrust but you don't really have the space or attitude to floor it.

2) TRACS is a joke! Better off to turn it off. "IF" it's able at all to catch wheel spin, all it does is slip - grip - slip - grip in a jerky way like an old washing machine.

3) Kind of sensitive to throttle lift off. More than I figured it would be. Wound up backing it in on a wet day once. HPF!!!!!! Be smooth transitioning off the gas when entering a braking zone while turning!

4) Smooth vs rough roads. Mine likes to skip over bumps at entries and I don't think it's that stiff! I'm running Canistos on mine (Volans in storage) with '45's but I'd like something with a little softer sidewall.

5) FIX THAT DASH if it hasn't already been done.

6) TAKE CARE jacking up and putting it on jack stands. P80's are dumb in this respect. I've never felt comfortable under these things. That last time I was under there I used a floor jack, 4 jack stands, and old 2/7/9 jacks on the sides before I felt comfortable!

7) Power Steering pump doesn't use power steering fluid!!!!! Luckily I figured this out on the old ladys T5.

8) It definitely under steers on the gas. Only once was it off throttle. Just in a little fast and wet. Otherwise, and if you're cracking on, try not to hammer it too hard at exits. If you do, and it starts spinning, try easing off a couple of degrees of steering. I've found this helps me regain some traction without just plain letting out of the gas.

9) I'm forever chasing the volume since the stereo likes to adjust up and down with vehicle speed. My BMW did this but it was less drastic.

Overall they are kick ass performance sedans!!!! Tons of room and tons of trunk space. There are even big frame rails at the back which are great for hooking up hitches. Excellent on road trips to bike parks and fun 6/10ths to 7/10ths mountain road carving.

Still not sure if I'm going to keep it. E60 550i's and 996's are calling me in my sleep.

BDKR said:

Can't stress this enough. Admittedly, I had already popped for the IPD poly inserts into the existing mounts (which were in pretty amazing shape on mine) when I found out about these. The difference is considerable either route you go.



My R has something similar, but it sounds mechanical (see #7 below). I warm it up religiously and drive easy for the first mile or three. Once that's done, it's on!

Now that I got the old lady an LR3, I'm going to keep the motor and tranny from her T5 as backups (maybe even rebuild both).

Yours is absolutely gorgeous in white BTW!

Anyway, my feelings on P80 R ownership.

1) Awesome part throttle poke! Great for tighter technical roads where you still want some thrust but you don't really have the space or attitude to floor it.

2) TRACS is a joke! Better off to turn it off. "IF" it's able at all to catch wheel spin, all it does is slip - grip - slip - grip in a jerky way like an old washing machine.

3) Kind of sensitive to throttle lift off. More than I figured it would be. Wound up backing it in on a wet day once. HPF!!!!!! Be smooth transitioning off the gas when entering a braking zone while turning!

4) Smooth vs rough roads. Mine likes to skip over bumps at entries and I don't think it's that stiff! I'm running Canistos on mine (Volans in storage) with '45's but I'd like something with a little softer sidewall.

5) FIX THAT DASH if it hasn't already been done.

6) TAKE CARE jacking up and putting it on jack stands. P80's are dumb in this respect. I've never felt comfortable under these things. That last time I was under there I used a floor jack, 4 jack stands, and old 2/7/9 jacks on the sides before I felt comfortable!

7) Power Steering pump doesn't use power steering fluid!!!!! Luckily I figured this out on the old ladys T5.

8) It definitely under steers on the gas. Only once was it off throttle. Just in a little fast and wet. Otherwise, and if you're cracking on, try not to hammer it too hard at exits. If you do, and it starts spinning, try easing off a couple of degrees of steering. I've found this helps me regain some traction without just plain letting out of the gas.

9) I'm forever chasing the volume since the stereo likes to adjust up and down with vehicle speed. My BMW did this but it was less drastic.

Overall they are kick ass performance sedans!!!! Tons of room and tons of trunk space. There are even big frame rails at the back which are great for hooking up hitches. Excellent on road trips to bike parks and fun 6/10ths to 7/10ths mountain road carving.

Still not sure if I'm going to keep it. E60 550i's and 996's are calling me in my sleep.

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Thanks! Delrin bushings are on the list! I'm already over budget with two full boxes of replacement parts so they're gonna wait 'till june probably.

1) Agreed! Love the feel of the car at part throttle and there's almost no reason to rev it above 4500. It gets choked up-top with the 15g anyway.. The trip home started with like 30 miles of twisties going through the countryside of Charlottesville/Lousia Virginia. Great view, fun roads!

2) Not quite sure what's up with the TRACS or if this has a rebuilt module on it that doesn't have TRACS programming - the light on the dash does not come on with the key with the other lights, the button does nothing, and it spins no problem with no beating and banging so I have to assume either it doesn't work or has been disabled, which I'm totally fine with. Don't need no steenking traction control and this car will never see winter weather while I own it.

3) I always try to avoid snapping the throttle shut although the TurboXS BOV sounds pretty cool, but if I back it down to 50% quickly and then gently shut it it sounds equally cool! I've driven my '96 GLT pretty hard in the past and only had the ass end step out once - that was enough learning for me It was wet (like you said) and I was on a pretty slick on-ramp to 95N, came up on a rollback pulling a car out of the inside ditch which happened ALL THE TIME on that ramp when it was raining. 100% chance of seeing a car down there any time it rained. Snapped throttle shut and leaned on brakes a little too hard. Didn't lose it but I could see then just how easy it was to get it out of shape.

4) Lots of rough roads around here. I'm pretty safe while I'm in town, lived here all my life and know where every rough patch and pothole is so I'm pretty good at avoiding them at this point. However whenever I go out I have to keep a good following distance so I can see holes coming, do NOT want to have to replace a peg.. but yeah, this thing rides like a stick horse with the 40's and HDs

5) Please elaborate? The dash is in great shape compared to my GLT, but if there's a problem area I need to preemptively fix let me know!

6) Yeah with my GLT I always jacked it up using the front core support and put stands at the rear subframe "plates" that tie the subframe bushing to the frame rails, jack up the rear in the middle where the delta link arms cross then one jackstand each on the ends of the delta link arms. Just have to make sure it doesn't get too far out of level.. Had to do some tricky placement and use the frame rails when I swapped subframes from a parts 855 GLT to my 854 GLT after a hit-and-run damaged my subframe/knuckle/fender/control arm/steering rack/yada yada

7) Once I secure an owner's manual I'll check and see what fluid is supposed to be in there. Probably trans fluid but not sure if it uses the same Ford fluid with friction modifiers as 240s are supposed to use..

8) I got pretty used to the understeer in my GLT but that only ever occured 1: on purpose and 2: in the wet. I'm sure it will scare me if it happens in this R on dry pavement so I'm going to take it nice and easy for a while until I learn the power band while cornering hard. Same power without boost and twice as much power with boost compared to my GLT so I'm sure I'll have to make some changes.

9) Haven't had that happen that I know of? Then again the only time I've had the stereo up was sitting in traffic at 0-15mph, so perhaps I haven't run into it yet.. I typically keep the radio off, I like listening to the car

Yeah, for a nice family car this really is my personal cream of the crop. Excellent trunk space and adequate rear leg room for the little one and perhaps a couple of buddies that need a DD. Never been impressed by rear headroom but my GLT had a sagging headliner in the rear, maybe this car will be different. Rarely have people in my back seat other than my daughter but I do like that it has a LOT more room than my 240s do. Still thrilled with the car! Absolutely love the comfort of the seats and the torque and the dash is pleasant to look at and doesn't rattle excessively.. Only thing that I want to change about the interior will be the single gauge pod (which looks like ****) will become a 3-gauge pod and the existing boost gauge has GOT to go. It's an autometer that lights up green with the lights and it's absolutely BLINDING. I have to cover it with my hand to back up using the driver's side mirror at night and cannot see the road making left turns. Going to go with VDO vision boost and oil temp with the wideband somewhere in the mix.

Thanks again for the replies and advice guys!

Sounds like you've got experience dealing with P80s. Quirky but fun cars.

I would like to get mine to the 300hp range and address some other issues. Should be starting that project next month.

I like it!

DMFWallace said:

5) Please elaborate? The dash is in great shape compared to my GLT, but if there's a problem area I need to preemptively fix let me know!

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The mounting points typically break and if you reinforce them before they fail you can keep your dash from rattling apart.

Whelp! Its been about a week so I suppose it was about time for me to break something!

Not quite sure what went wrong. Hadn't been driving the car hard at all tonight. Was actually on the way home from picking up my daughter from her auntie's house when I noticed the car was making a ticking sound that I could hear with the sunroof open

Got the car home, driving normally - don't feel anything wrong - but it's brokeazz. I'm thinking rod knock, not 100% sure though. Will limp it to the shop tomorrow and perhaps take a look oin the pan. It's full of oil, everything seems okay, just making a tick now. I'm wondering how the hell it went from driving normal and quiet to "what the hell is that ticking sound??" In about 15 minutes. Oh well. I'm in it for enough dough that its worthwhile to fix or replace the engine. If anyone has insight or knowledge to share about exposing the bottom end on these now is the time!

https://youtu.be/34N7BgBBMCc

blkaplan said:

The mounting points typically break and if you reinforce them before they fail you can keep your dash from rattling apart.

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Ahhh yes. That happened to my blue car (the glt) Its rather aggravating - that's the main reason I stopped driving it! Will read up on reinforcing the dash mounting once I fix the knocking sound and/or rebuild the motor

Re rod knock, light rod knock will go away with a little throttle, and come back on the lift off - the cylinder pressure keeps the piston away from the head. The other obvious thing to do is hold the dip stick up to a light and look for sparkles.

Top end sounded quiet enough, though. Ominous loudness from around the block. I don't know these whiteblock engines too well, but certainly indicates a rod knock to my untrained ear over youtube with encoding losses. Good luck!

Drain the oil, have a good rummage around inside, what's to be found.

Filter and refill, see what happens.

Hydraulic valve lifter gone bad?

Exhaust leak?

DMFWallace said:

Whelp! Its been about a week so I suppose it was about time for me to break something!

Not quite sure what went wrong. Hadn't been driving the car hard at all tonight. Was actually on the way home from picking up my daughter from her auntie's house when I noticed the car was making a ticking sound that I could hear with the sunroof open

Got the car home, driving normally - don't feel anything wrong - but it's brokeazz. I'm thinking rod knock, not 100% sure though. Will limp it to the shop tomorrow and perhaps take a look oin the pan. It's full of oil, everything seems okay, just making a tick now. I'm wondering how the hell it went from driving normal and quiet to "what the hell is that ticking sound??" In about 15 minutes. Oh well. I'm in it for enough dough that its worthwhile to fix or replace the engine. If anyone has insight or knowledge to share about exposing the bottom end on these now is the time!

https://youtu.be/34N7BgBBMCc

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I had a similar issue, but I decided to dig around first before taking it to a shop.

And I never did take it too a shop!!!!!

This engine seems really sensitive to oil level!!!! As long as my oil level is topped, and I mean really topped off, it's fine. You may not know, but if the dipstick was replaced (these seem to suffer from using that same crap plastic the dash used) the marks may not be the same. On my new one, I keep the level ABOVE the full mark on the stick. and haven't had a recurrence of this.

All that said, the my motor has 185K and has been hammered I'm sure, not to mention the beating I give it. In spite of still running well, I'm already thinking long term about bottom end and transmission rebuilds / replacements. There are some noises and whines it makes, but when it's warm that all goes away and it's ready to mis-behave.

For those that don't know, just buying a replacement dip-stick for this car is not straightforward. It's a cruel joke of some sort actually. If you've been down this road you know what I'm on about.

DMFWallace said:

Ahhh yes. That happened to my blue car (the glt) Its rather aggravating - that's the main reason I stopped driving it! Will read up on reinforcing the dash mounting once I fix the knocking sound and/or rebuild the motor

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Sorry I forgot to answer this myself earlier.

1) You'll find tons of stuff on removing the dash pad. That's only half what you need.

2) You'll find dead links to stuff on how to remove the dash. PDF's and 5h1t. I'm out of town until Tuesday (morning coffee and internet rummage before I ride some DH) but PM me and I'll try to find the pdf I managed to find on how to remove it via the way back machine.

There are some links however that will have pics of what people have done. It'll show you strips of sheet metal and layers of epoxy! LOL

Whelp, no shiny bits in the oil. Drained and Filled, nothing looks out of the ordinary. Just Noisy. Stethoscope indicates it's a bottom end noise although I can hear it on the valve cover - just not as loud as on the pan. I'm at a crossroads on how to handle it but they all start from the same place: Make it last through the summer.

Option 1 is find a b5234t and build it in the garage then do the swap in the fall months when I don't need A/C and will be driving the wagon - this car won't see winter weather as long as I own it regardless. I'm thinking a build would entail honing, rods/bearings, log manifold and a t3 frame turbo.

Option 2 is once garaged, pull the existing engine and tear it down, attempt to find the source of the noise and if the block is okay get the crank surfaced, do the aforementioned build, and button it up.

Option 3 is why wait. Garage it, get the GLT through inspection and just live with a rattling dash but an otherwise very reliable car. Pull the pan off the R and see if I can figure out what it is, do the bare minimum fix, get it back on the road.

I'm leaning toward option 1. 3 isn't bad but the insanity that comes with that dash in the glt being 2" away from the windshield is.. ugh. Scary. For now though, I'm just gonna drive it. If it gets worse or gives me indications its gonna let go I'll go ahead and park it but for now it drives fine. Just be gentle with it.

Thicker oil and maybe overfill a bit? Can't hurt to try if you're gonna rebuild/replace anyway.

Well my thinking is similar. I have a ''97 T5 that will give up the ghost for the R.

I just hate working on P80's!

#1 but pull the motor out of an R or out of an 05+ T5 and just keep the manifold and K24 and swap tunes.

Cwazywazy said:

Thicker oil and maybe overfill a bit? Can't hurt to try if you're gonna rebuild/replace anyway.

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I actually had about an eighth a bottle of that super thick lucas additive, added that to the oil and the noise came down a little bit. Might consider stepping up to 10-40 oil and adding a bit more lucas. Just worried about gumming up the itty bitty turbo passages with that uber thick lucas.. might be my imagination though.

BDKR said:

Well my thinking is similar. I have a ''97 T5 that will give up the ghost for the R.

I just hate working on P80's!

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Agreed. Compared to redblocks these things are a maze but they're far from the worst. I've done more surgery to my GLT than all of my redblock cars combined. I'm glad I had the learning experience on that car as opposed to finding out the hard way on this nice example. Only thing I haven't done yet on a P80 is swap an engine and mess with the delta link rear.. It's so funny to me that all of my other cars look like total ass but run just dandy.. and the one car I have that is absolutely gorgeous has this annoying ass noise that worries me to death Ugh.. P80s. It's a love/hate.

doucheNozzle said:

#1 but pull the motor out of an R or out of an 05+ T5 and just keep the manifold and K24 and swap tunes.

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That's a consideration! I guess I should probably make an account on a FWD oriented forum and start doing research on the popular RN swaps and how to do it. The R is doing fine overall, no lack in power, not even a hiccup. The ticking is just annoying..

Just drive it til it blows, IMO. Make sure you have AAA.