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Converting to E85 (ethanol fuel)

JohnMc said:
There's probably a precise calculation, but in general terms just assume you are mixing 91 octane fuel with 105 octane fuel, and just weight the numbers by the relative amounts and average.
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The octane rating will be very close to the blend between the fuels. 50% 91 octane gas and 50% 105 octane E85 (by mass, not volume) will yield around (0.5*91) + (0.5*105) = 98 octane. Give or take 1 or 2 octane.

The octane rating will however go up a lot with very small blends like 80% gasoline and 20% E85. That will probably give you more than the theoretical (0.8*91) + (0.2*105) = 93.8 octane. Probably closer to 95 octane.
 
Since this is my first winter on E85, I have made some tests and observations.

The tests made here are valid on my car only and may differ from your setup.

What is true for all cars running E85 though, is:

At ~15*C ethanol starts to condensate at the metal sufaces. And at ~2-5*C it is starting to get hard to get the required fuel to enter the cylinders which results in difficulties starting the car. The temperatures mentioned here are the temperatures in the intake runners, the head and in the cylinders. The air temperature also has a to do with it, but if your engine is just a little bit warm the car will start right up.

Higher dynamic compression ratio at cranking will help with starting the car. In reality that means that an engine with a T-cam will be easier to start than a K-cam, V15 or KG2T.

Higher static compression ratio will also help the E85 fuel to ignite. In reality that means that a NA car or a +T (9.5:1 CR or higher) will be easier to start than a turbo engine (8.7:1 CR).

OK, now to the tests made on my car:

All tests are made on a cold engine.

100% E85 @ >10*C = Instant start. No difficulties at warmup.

100% E85 @ 5-10*C = Takes 2-3 tries to fire up. Some power loss at warmup.

100% E85 @ 0-5*C = Will start after repeated tries if you wait 10 seconds inbetween. Much power loss at warmup and the car wants to stall if you push it too hard.

100% E85 @ <0*C = Hehe... good luck...

90% E85 + 10% gas @ <10*C = Instant or near instant start. I have only tested this down to -12*C so far, but it will probably start as good at -20*C. Some power loss at warmup.
 
Im now mixing my gasoline with 40 to 50 %of E85 and noticed a slight increase of power.I still like to change the fuel injector so I can fully use E85.Anybody knows where can I buy an injector for my C320?Thanks!
 
Hello

I just want to ask if these MSD fuel injectors will work for my C320 conversion to run on E85?I got these informations at www.horsepowerfreaks.com yesterday.
Thank you!

Universal
Injector, 26lb/hr, 2ohm, (2/0.5A) Quad 4 #6091

Universal
Injector, 24 lb/hr, saturated #6261
 
suzetteebreo said:
Hello

I just want to ask if these MSD fuel injectors will work for my C320 conversion to run on E85?I got these informations at www.horsepowerfreaks.com yesterday.
Thank you!

Universal
Injector, 26lb/hr, 2ohm, (2/0.5A) Quad 4 #6091

Universal
Injector, 24 lb/hr, saturated #6261
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The flow number is fine, but...

You car uses high impedance injectors, and those are low impedance injectors.

Maybe you can solve it by installing resistors in series with the low impedance injectors...? I don?t know how your injection system works, if it fires the injectors one by one, in pairs or all at once.
 
I see.Thank you for the reply!
I got another one and the brand is Venom.Are these high impendance?

Universal
23 lbs/hr - up to 295hp (Set of 4) #184767
24 lbs/hr - up to 310hp (Set of 8) #133613
 
I bought 24lb injector bosh for 295 dollar US for set of six.I'll set it up this week.Does it bring up my cars horsepower when I put these injectors or it would be just the same other than I can use straight E85?Thanks!
 
suzetteebreo said:
I bought 24lb injector bosh for 295 dollar US for set of six.I'll set it up this week.Does it bring up my cars horsepower when I put these injectors or it would be just the same other than I can use straight E85?Thanks!
Click to expand...
It will probably raise your power a little since the ignition will never have to back off because of ping. It will also cool better and give a cleaner burn. Many things that contributes a little bit each to give you some power.
 
frpe82 said:
It will probably raise your power a little since the ignition will never have to back off because of ping. It will also cool better and give a cleaner burn. Many things that contributes a little bit each to give you some power.
Click to expand...

Thank you for the reply!
I have a friend who's also interested on using e85 for his 2003 Mitsubishi Lancer OZ and the stock fuel injector is 240cc.Do you think he still has to change his fuel injectors to a bigger size or 240cc will do E85?

Thank you!Now my car is E85 100% running now...!
 
wow- great write up.
So- I'm game. the E85 around me is generally $.40-.60 less than regular unleaded gasoline(RUG).and the farmer down the road gets paid way better for his corn if i burn this instead of OIL. Here in MN they are building new ethanol plants all over. farmer co-ops, mostly.

the cold start issue may be resolved by installing an old webasto I have, if it burns ethanol OK. or mix RUG with E-85. or switch injectors and burn RUG all winter.

Anyhow- I have a 93 945 with regina. any ideas on where to find/ what vehicles use a lrger injector for this application? If I could find some at the pick and pull, it would only be a $20 bill.

thanks,Mo
 
mobetta said:
wow- great write up.
So- I'm game. the E85 around me is generally $.40-.60 less than regular unleaded gasoline(RUG).and the farmer down the road gets paid way better for his corn if i burn this instead of OIL. Here in MN they are building new ethanol plants all over. farmer co-ops, mostly.

the cold start issue may be resolved by installing an old webasto I have, if it burns ethanol OK. or mix RUG with E-85. or switch injectors and burn RUG all winter.

Anyhow- I have a 93 945 with regina. any ideas on where to find/ what vehicles use a lrger injector for this application? If I could find some at the pick and pull, it would only be a $20 bill.

thanks,Mo
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What part number do your current injectors have?

Get some that are 35-40% larger.

Maybe the Turbo injectors are suitable...?
 
Ok, the wife's home, and I checked out the injectors. they are blue tops? and the number is 1389563 which is molded into the blue top. also, 182H is stamped on another side, with a heated brand type stamp, it appears.

Is there an online database to research these injectors?
would they push enough fuel with an FPR, or should I be looking for different Injectors?


Is there any major differences that I should be aware of to convert this over, being a NA regina car?

I would love to burn ethanol, as our other car is running used cooking oil, this would make our cars pretty much independent of foreign oil.

thnks,mo
 
I can?t find anything on that number.

Doesn?t the injector have a number that looks like this: 0 280 150 xxx?
 
well, I couldnt see any other no's. heres some pics,though. maybe I am not looking in the right place.

<center>
<img src="http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e303/mohoneywell/volvo/DSCN0980.jpg" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"><br><br>
<img src="http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e303/mohoneywell/volvo/DSCN0979.jpg" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"><br><br>
<img src="http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e303/mohoneywell/volvo/DSCN0807.jpg" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"><br><br>
</center>
 
Ok... so you have Siemens injectors...

I expected Bosch.

After much digging on the internet I found the right specifications for those injectors.

1389563
14.2 ohm
192cc/min @ 3bar

To run E85 you need 42% bigger injectors to be exact. That means that you should look for 273cc/min injectors. The turbo injectors should be ~296cc/min if you use them together with a 2.5bar FPR, but that sounds like it may be too much flow.

I don?t have any suggestions at this time, but the size you should be aiming for is 273cc/min.
 
@frpe82, I'm aiming for 300+ hp and planning a E85 conversion, how big should my injectors be? I'd like some reserve because future performance goals......
 
Ruben said:
@frpe82, I'm aiming for 300+ hp and planning a E85 conversion, how big should my injectors be? I'd like some reserve because future performance goals......
Click to expand...

you know they are going to sell E85 in Aachen? The Stawag opens its E85 station in the next couple of months :-D
(probably you know since you are doing the conversion :-P)
 
Ruben said:
@frpe82, I'm aiming for 300+ hp and planning a E85 conversion, how big should my injectors be? I'd like some reserve because future performance goals......
Click to expand...
600cc/min should be sufficient, but some 788cc/min injectors will give you some headroom.
 
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