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Some observations from my recent turbo swap (LH2.4 stuff)

stylngle2003 said:
there is?

i know NA models have a flame trap inside their PCV valve, while the turbos do not and have the port capped off
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i think he is talking about the heater in the AMM-Turbo hose on LH2.4 cars .. its to keep whatever oil is coming out of there warm and not gunk up that part/turbo to much
 
Captain Bondo said:
The injector ballast was spliced into the thick green/white wire by cutting the wire approx 2" back from the plug for the fuel computer- this allows you to mount the ballast cleanly inside the kick panel. Basically tie the four green wires on the plug together and solder them to one end of the snipped green/white wire, and solder the grey wire to the other side. soldering the plug in rather than the ballast itself is important for two reasons:
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Strange they did?nt do that from the factory. Since the system?s not sequential the ballast resistors end up being in parallel anyways. Hm?!? This is definitely what I will do as well. Great tip!

thelostartof said:
i think he is talking about the heater in the AMM-Turbo hose on LH2.4 cars .. its to keep whatever oil is coming out of there warm and not gunk up that part/turbo to much
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OK, so it?s not a sensor, it?s a heater. Could it be wired directly to 12V and left on while the ignition is on, or is there something more to it? Tell me more and you?ll be my hero!

Since this is one of the parts that I?m missing (I could probably get it for free though), I could probably get one of those small filters and attach to the end of a hose running from the oil trap. This way it will no longer be PCV, but only CV. Any comments?

One last question:

This is another thing I?ve not seen on NA

fuelrail.jpg


I guess this device has something to do with fuel pressure, but since its not the fpr, what?s it called and what purpose does it serve?
 
Egr

When I swapped my '94 b230ft rebuild in my '91 740T, I ditched the egr. 13k miles and counting, not a thing wrong with it.

pbonsalb said:
I have heard, but not confirmed, that a non EGR motor should not be run with an EGR computer and vice versa. I recently did an EGR motor swap into a non EGR car and had only the EGR computer and retained the EGR for this reason.

Philip Bradley
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Captain Bondo said:
The rail has no provision for the cold start injector, so you can either not run the cold start injector or swap the green injectors into the original fuel rail. I left the cold start injector disconnected- my reasoning being that the cold start mapping for the turbo computer assumes there is no cold start injector.
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Someone confirm in the wiring diagrams, but I am fairly certain that a 2.4 ECU installed in a Turbo car not wired for a cold start is unable to actuate the cold start should you swap it into a car so-equipped (unused pin-out @ ECU).

I don't know the ins/outs of EZK but would probably not use an NA box for a turbo application until I could confirm the timing strategy is the same.

Just to keep folks safe, do NOT use a non-turbo ECU for a turbo application. I have put a wide-band on a turbo'd car running an NA LH2.2 box and datalogged. What happens is the ECU keeps a completely stoich. ratio up until you trigger the WOT switch. This is a problem because it did so even though I was running *considerable* boost (~10psi) before hitting WOT. Bear in mind that I was also running a bit over 20% more fuel than stock. So, bigger injectors, as long as they aren't so big that the ECU can't keep the engine in closed loop operation, do NOT help until you get to WOT.

As you'd expect, Turbo ECU properly richens the mixture as boost builds. In my application (Volvo LH2.2), I see mid- to low- 13s before WOT.
 
On the fuel cut: cool info, voltage clamp is a bad plan indeed. I never paid much attention to any of the fuel cut stuff as I mentioned before. :lol:

The ping on 2.4 is not nearly as bad as it is on 2.0 believe or not, 2.0 actually has a bad miss and then a ping. The reason for it is that it is set to run very lean at cruise for economy and emissions and cat converter life, and the amm will not response fast enough to increase the load signal when you blip the throttle so it goes very very lean for a brief second. This is the joy of only having a throttle "switch" since there can be no provision for accell enrichment. It's difficult to get away from becuase any effort you make to richen the mixture under cruise the O2 sensor will simply compensate for, and if you fatten it up so far it is beyond compensation you'll get a CEL.

The breather heater is minor, I left it out. I bought about 1 meter of breather hose from the dealer, stuck a chunk approx 5" long onto the breather box, stuck a turbo style flametrap holer onto it, and then ran hose from that to the turbo inlet pipe- I made the pipe from a peice of stock intercooler piping that had the "nipple" meant to connect the hose that goes to the idle speed motor- so it basically is plumbed like stock on a 940T.

It is funny that the ballast has four wires in when the injectors are fired at the same time, I suspect volvo did it that way because the off-the-shelf ballast resistors from bosch were configured that way.
 
procainestart said:
Someone confirm in the wiring diagrams, but I am fairly certain that a 2.4 ECU installed in a Turbo car not wired for a cold start is unable to actuate the cold start should you swap it into a car so-equipped (unused pin-out @ ECU).
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i have a book w/ the wiring diag and afaik all 2.4 cars have the same wiring harness, every 2.4 car i've seen(14 or so) all have an EGR plug(the wiring harness) even tho only 4 of them had EGR's.... and on cars w/o the Cold start injector the cold start setup was controlled by the ECU as in if the temp sensor was below a certian point then the ecu would just richen up the mixture via injectors vs just turning on that extra valve

so let me check my wiring diag and see what i can tell ya



the heater for the pcv on the 2.4 turbo cars is pretty much unless as you can leave it disconnected w/o any side affects, tho having an external breather helps alot(catch can)
 
thelostartof said:
i have a book w/ the wiring diag and afaik all 2.4 cars have the same wiring harness, every 2.4 car i've seen(14 or so) all have an EGR plug(the wiring harness) even tho only 4 of them had EGR's.... and on cars w/o the Cold start injector the cold start setup was controlled by the ECU as in if the temp sensor was below a certian point then the ecu would just richen up the mixture via injectors vs just turning on that extra valve
Click to expand...

Sorry, should've been clearer. What I meant was that a car that does not have an actual cold start injector installed will have an ECU whose pin-out to ground the injector will not be connected. And, yes, the ECU will richen the mix via coolant temp sensor voltage.
 
Captain Bondo said:
...and the amm will not response fast enough to increase the load signal when you blip the throttle so it goes very very lean for a brief second.
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Thanks for posting this. I've been noticing that the AFR goes lean for a split second before dropping below stoich when I get on the boost. I'd thought the AMM was crappy, especially since I just replaced another AMM.
 
I meant to reply here a few days ago, but Had to bail off the machine so my wife could do some actual work. The EGR is controlled by EZK 116. Kenny are there any codes in socket 6? It is sweet that the harnesses are the same, it makes an FT swap real easy. On my 960T with Motronic 1.8 I am not using the air pump system or the EGR. It takes a month or two for it to throw an EGR code, but never seems to even try to test the air pump system. I also get an AMM burnoff code, but I think that is due to making the AMM wiring longer? I have seen the burnoff occur when it is supposed to anyway. Eventually I will do something to trick the ECU, but for now I do not care if I have to clear the codes every once and a while.
 
Nope, no codes from 2 or 6. It's definitely cool that it's pretty much plug 'n'play. The customer is coming back in a week or so, so I can check everything over just to make sure it's all happy, but so far so good. I added about five feet to the length of the AMM wiring probably, so I will watch for any of those faults as well. Perhaps the solder connection to the burnout circuit where you extended the wiring has a small crack or something that intermittently creates too much impedance in the circuit to allow the ecu to think its functioning.

I'm hoping it keeps working flawlessly as I definitely could care less if my car threw a code now and again but on a customer's car it would be nice if it's all perfect, I'm sure you know the feeling Pete. ;-)

I also agree it's probably fair to assume that an ECU that was not originally mapped to use a cold start injector will probably just have a slightly more aggressive cold-enrichment routine as driven by the CTS instead, so deleting the cold start injector should not cause any cold start problems when the corresponding ecu is used.
 
As long as the cold start valve is not connected you will be ok. Both would most likely cause fouling on cold starts.
 
Captain Bondo said:
Ok here are the updates:
Looked the EGR thing through. With no egr temp sensor connected to the computer, it defaults to thinking the motor is too cold to operate the egr, so it simply does not operate the solenoid and operates normally. So no issues with that, just so everyone knows.

LH2.4 has no transmission signal, the 940t had an AW71, the 240 had a M47, so I just swapped the m47 stuff over since the flywheel was already setup for the crank sensor. You just make sure the 2 dowels on the back of the flywheel are at 2:00 and 3:30 when you bolt it on with the motor at TDC so that the crank sensor signal is in sync, and you're good to go.

How long did it take me? Total actual labour time including pulling both motors, testing all of the ecus to make sure it'll pass aircare, plus swapping the int shaft, replacing t-belt, waterpump, front seals, rear main, breather box service and o-ring, swapping the trans over, and reinstalling the motor and modifying the harness it was about 12 hours.
I can do a straight motor swap in about 4 hours or so, but the fiddling around making sure evrything was just so ate some time up. now that I know all of the electronics works I could do it in maybe 10 hours.

I think the customer is picking it up either today or saturday, so I'll take note of what the bill ends up being, that will sorta be up to my boss.

:)

Oh, another interesting thing, the little sheetmetal clip that you clip onto the fuel pump relay, and then clip to sheetmetal up inside the dash, clips right onto the ballast resistor so you can grab another one of those clips you can clip it up right beside the fuel pump relay, it looks factory.
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awesome thread and write up, I +T my 91 240 just ran orange top high resistance and kept the stock harness, 0 issues pulling up to 14 psi on a ported 13c and open 940 down pipe.

Defiantly agree a catch can setup should be looked into for any of these +T cars if you really want to push em!

was curious of the numbers you charged the customer for the work if you don't mind sharing!
 
I ran into an issue with the cold start injector on my build too, I just went with the system that the turbo car had so just have a cold start plug dangling and get no codes from it ....cold starts are the way they should be.

The heated nipple thing....tossed.... won't send a code won't make anything run funny.

I put 12k on it since, pulling a trailer often, I run at 12 psi on a stock 13c, M47 that currently had 243K on it.

43086349_10217005527866419_3987225849790201856_n.jpg


I have only seen the check engine light once when I first put it together I over torqued the knock sensor and it threw a 143 at me, corrected that and have been trouble free since, not a spit sputter or stumble.

I can see your customer being very happy with a turbo redblock manual. I love mine and am building another but even nicer this next time around.
 
Lol I saw the sig and assumed it was modern

Originally Posted by Jordan View Post
Turbobricks isn't a car forum any more. Its a forum for lame kids.
 
Lol I saw the sig and assumed it was modern

Originally Posted by Jordan View Post
Turbobricks isn't a car forum any more. Its a forum for lame kids.
 
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