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Cooling system changes for high rpm use.

I dont know about pressure....but I can tell you that with the stock harmonic balancer....and the early larger water pump pulley...the cooling is a good match for low idle speed cooling and I bet overall pressure. I made a pulley that was one inch larger than the large stock pulley, and it would take forever for the cooling fan to cool the motor at idle....like at a long stop light or drivethrough...Id say 5 min. Now with the large stock pulley on, takes about on min to cool the motor at idle.

Here is a cut and paste from my build thread.

And Ill post this in the waterpump thread but I observed something while cruising....its pretty wierd. I have a pretty efficient cooling system, and since going back to the stock early large waterpump pulley, the cooling fan can cool the motor down from 213* to 193* in about a minute. But while cruising down I5 at speed (75mph) theres those times when you lift for a down hill grade.....coming up to pass someone. Anyways, like most EFI systems, the injectors get cut. During that 1/4 to 1/2 mile decel or when testing from 75 to 60mph.....the motor will cool down from the constant 190* it runs to almost 180*. Just that brief time that fuel is cut and there is no heat in the combustion chamber....allows the motor to cool. The it takes about a mile to get it back to 190*. There was times before this that I saw the temp guage lower than normal but could never figure out why. So i can only imagine the heat in the cylinders at 25psi! Looking at my logs, I only gain about 1 degree in water temps during the dyno pull.
 
Its an alum radiator from a Ford Aerostar.. Its a 2 core setup. I welded some large tanks on it. Off the top of my head, core size is like 22x19. Its about the size of the NPR intercooler..
 
Along with drilling holes in my head where the gasket had some, but it did not, I just got done doing this.


Here are some pics showing my water bypass from the head, and the passengers block. All plumbed to a 12v solenoid on the pass frame rail and then to the suction side of the pump via the old water cooled turbo location.

you can the stainless tube snake from the rear most head port.

IMG_20110308_214519.jpg


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and poken from the block dumping by the power steering pump.

IMG_20110308_214626.jpg


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and onto the solenoid. Its controlled via the ecu and will meet an RPM and Boost critieria (something like 3000rpm and 10psi) to open and releive block pressure for a very short period of time.

IMG_20110308_214839.jpg

is this for real. you think that the lack of a little solenoid was the reason your freeze plugs are still falling out.

I bet its a pretty desperate situation your in if these things keep falling out. but your engine is seriously blown up and no solenoid is gonna fix a warped engine block. not trying to be a jerk but why is this thread still around?

easy solution:
get another block at the junk yard for like $150 take it to a machine shop to have the cylinders sized for your pistons $200. tell him to not mess with anything else just clean and hone. then put your pistons rods and crank in your head on
 
is this for real. you think that the lack of a little solenoid was the reason your freeze plugs are still falling out.

I bet its a pretty desperate situation your in if these things keep falling out. but your engine is seriously blown up and no solenoid is gonna fix a warped engine block. not trying to be a jerk but why is this thread still around?

easy solution:
get another block at the junk yard for like $150 take it to a machine shop to have the cylinders sized for your pistons $200. tell him to not mess with anything else just clean and hone. then put your pistons rods and crank in your head on

little boy, don't wander off in the forest alone.
 
As if we needed more proof that lead-based paint chips laced with crack are a poor choice for a bedtime snack...
 
is this for real. you think that the lack of a little solenoid was the reason your freeze plugs are still falling out.

I bet its a pretty desperate situation your in if these things keep falling out. but your engine is seriously blown up and no solenoid is gonna fix a warped engine block. not trying to be a jerk but why is this thread still around?

easy solution:
get another block at the junk yard for like $150 take it to a machine shop to have the cylinders sized for your pistons $200. tell him to not mess with anything else just clean and hone. then put your pistons rods and crank in your head on

emot-suicide.gif
 
is this for real. you think that the lack of a little solenoid
was the reason your freeze plugs are still falling out.

I bet its a pretty desperate situation your in if these things
keep falling out. but your engine is seriously blown up and no
solenoid is gonna fix a warped engine block. not trying to be a
jerk but why is this thread still around?

easy solution: get another block at the junk yard for like $150
take it to a machine shop to have the cylinders sized for your
pistons $200. tell him to not mess with anything else just clean
and hone. then put your pistons rods and crank in your head
on

When I first learned about the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect">Dunning Kruger effect</a>
it explained so much.

Unfortunately it also made me a little paranoid that I might
actually be a total fool and not realize it.

Nathan, that engine bay is hot!
 
is this for real. you think that the lack of a little solenoid was the reason your freeze plugs are still falling out.

I bet its a pretty desperate situation your in if these things keep falling out. but your engine is seriously blown up and no solenoid is gonna fix a warped engine block. not trying to be a jerk but why is this thread still around?

easy solution:
get another block at the junk yard for like $150 take it to a machine shop to have the cylinders sized for your pistons $200. tell him to not mess with anything else just clean and hone. then put your pistons rods and crank in your head on


And get it line honed, decked, and new aux bearings then have 2 more sleeves installed from normal 200k engine wear, your looking at almost 600, so wont do that again. I wish this thread was around when I was building my engine....I would not have blown them out at mile 50 or on the Dyno later on. A small solenoid might be overkill, but I know now there is limited pressure in the block and dont have to worry about dumping fluid on the drag strip.

To do it again, I would secure the freeze plugs with small number 8 screws and washers in about 3 locations, and probably still run some sort of bypass valve!

Maybe theres some of us that just have motor that rev RFN, and have potential problems revving to 8+k rpm:nod:
 
My cooling system has started getting air pockets and spewing the coolant out of the resivor cap... i guess i need to read this thread better-_-
 
it did it with my 530 for a while just did a headgasket and put the 531 head on and it still does it only after i drive and hit the revlimiter.
 
Lots of subjects in here, but I do want to address one - coolant pressure in the block at high rpm. A few posters have incorrectly assumed that the pressure in the block can never exceed the radiator cap pressure. If they'd draw a rudimentary cooling system diagram, they'd note that the cap is not installed between the pump and flow limiting orifice (thermostat) but on the "low pressure side" of the system, between the thermostat and the inlet to the pump.

I mention this because I have seen a number of people blow heater cores on small-block Fords... myself included. So I actually hooked up a pressure gauge in the engine block of my old 289 and left it installed for a month. What an eye-opener!

I would have never guessed that a stamped-steel impeller blade could ever be very efficient at making pressure, but wow... before the thermostat opens, I'd see 115 psi (yes, one hundred and fifteen) in the engine block / heater core at 6000 rpm! Of course, once the 'stat was fully open, my readings never exceeded radiator cap pressure by more than a couple psi.

It is quite dependent on impeller design. I also tested my Kawasaki motorcycle with an impeller that looks a lot like our turbo compressor wheels, and was surprised to only see that one create 7 psi pressure (above cap pressure) at 5000 rpm and the thermostat closed.

By the way, that plot of pressure vs. rpm on my 289 had a nice "squared-with-rpm" trend... so the difference between 6000 and 7500 rpm is substantial.

Seemed like this data needed to be posted as I've seen a number of posts here over the last year that ask if anyone has measured pressure, and it didn't seem like anyone had ever chimed in with test results. So there are mine, for two non-Volvo applications. Hope that helps.
 
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I was thinking about one of these myself.....
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MOR-63750/

Then you don't have to plumb anything, just find a place to mount the electric drive motor.

Running electric driven stuff for the street seems a bit annoying, but the constant water flow rate might be an interesting experiment.

I have no idea what a good flow rate might be though....
 
interesting thread.

maybe monitoring / logging the pressure at the freeze plugs vs. other parts of the block may be in order, or maybe running pressure relief system for just the freeze plugs alone. Seems a little bit over the top. Probably addressing the underlying flaw with the cooling system should be the #1 priority in fixing rather than going off the deep end.

Further more what's the reason for drilling the extra holes in the head? I kinda skimmed through the the thread, but the drilling the holes in the head kinda didn't make sense for me.

Another interesting thing would be to see if the b204 or b234f turbo'd engines have this same cooling problem at higher rpms. I'm guessing yes, since the design of the cooling system is pretty much the same as the b230 / b2x design.
 
I didn't see this comment about 115psi before. But I now want to put a pressure gauge on the Volvo block water jackets and watch this.

I started this thread and now after the weekend in SE I confirmed that 2 other 16 valve cars have the same exact symptom as my car. My problem only appeared when I installed cams in the engine that let it rev beyond 7000rpm. Linuxmans car blew coolant out of the resivoir and the water was only lukewarm. The thermostat may not have been open now that I think about it. Hockey's car ejected the freeze plugs and the datalogs show that it was on a clean pull to 7300 rpm. I don't think he ever revved it that high on the street in the past so this might have been a case of just too many rpms...

So when my car runs soon, I want to try a pressure gauge on the block and toy around with running without a thermostat. And maybe try running a nice constant speed electric water pump drive too.


Lots of subjects in here, but I do want to address one - coolant pressure in the block at high rpm. A few posters have incorrectly assumed that the pressure in the block can never exceed the radiator cap pressure. If they'd draw a rudimentary cooling system diagram, they'd note that the cap is not installed between the pump and flow limiting orifice (thermostat) but on the "low pressure side" of the system, between the thermostat and the inlet to the pump.

I mention this because I have seen a number of people blow heater cores on small-block Fords... myself included. So I actually hooked up a pressure gauge in the engine block of my old 289 and left it installed for a month. What an eye-opener!

I would have never guessed that a stamped-steel impeller blade could ever be very efficient at making pressure, but wow... before the thermostat opens, I'd see 115 psi (yes, one hundred and fifteen) in the engine block / heater core at 6000 rpm! Of course, once the 'stat was fully open, my readings never exceeded radiator cap pressure by more than a couple psi.

It is quite dependent on impeller design. I also tested my Kawasaki motorcycle with an impeller that looks a lot like our turbo compressor wheels, and was surprised to only see that one create 7 psi pressure (above cap pressure) at 5000 rpm and the thermostat closed.

By the way, that plot of pressure vs. rpm on my 289 had a nice "squared-with-rpm" trend... so the difference between 6000 and 7500 rpm is substantial.

Seemed like this data needed to be posted as I've seen a number of posts here over the last year that ask if anyone has measured pressure, and it didn't seem like anyone had ever chimed in with test results. So there are mine, for two non-Volvo applications. Hope that helps.
 
Ever since I drilled the holes in the head, ran that programmable 3/8 bypass, and run the stock balancer with stock large water pump pulley.......there have been zero issues. Probably 12 dyno pulls, multiple daily abusises, and wot to 7500 at 27psi of boost at the drags.

I did the holes in the head because the stock gasket was failing at them points. There is 3 holes in the block/gasket that are not in the head, and each blind hole the fire ring was moving towards the chamber. There is pics in my build thread somewhere.

Ill be installing a cometic soon and will report back with how the Elring gasket is doing.
 
It is hard for me to see where you are relieving the block pressure from... Somewhere on the passenger side under the turbo?
 
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