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T5 Clutch or Trans Issue?

VeroDubs

The Big Swede
Joined
Oct 14, 2015
Location
Vero Beach, FL
So as of late, I have been having some weird disengagement issues going on with my T5. Let me see if I can describe them well.

These issues usually happen after hard or long drives when the trans is hot.

-With the clutch depressed, on deceleration to a stop, with the car in 1st, 2nd, or 3rd gear; It feels as though there is enough of the clutch dragging to cause the back wheels to shutter like the clutch is engaged. This all is gone once the car comes to a stop.

-On deceleration, trying to downshift to 1st, 2nd, or 3rd, I will sometimes get grinds. These are intermittent and usually when I don't rev match perfectly. Sometime it does not need rev matched at all and down shifts fine.

-Randomly on up shifts I will get a grind. There is no rhyme or reason to this. Almost like I didn't compress the clutch enough, though it is fully depressed.

Thoughts and possible other useful info-


Flywheel: STS Machine LH2.4 60-2 Flat Flywheel
Clutch Disk: Southbend Ceramic 225mm T5 Splined Disk
Pressure Plate: SAAB Viggen 228mm PP
DeeWorks/Avalanche Kit
Ford TOB

I have adjust the cable both ways and driven it, does the same whether it is loose or tight or adjusted perfectly. Right now I have it a little over tight and there is no way it's not disengaging as much as possible.

I set the endplay in the trans when I did the swap. Is it possible to be set wrong (Too Tight) and would it cause issues like this?

I had to space my pressure plate with 1 machine washer on each pressure plate bolt in order to have the pressure plate release arms at the right height.

Any other info needed, just ask. I am looking for some insight on this.
 
Did you lubricate the splines on the transmission at all? Disk sticking to the splines? Was the input shaft worn in a pot that could be causing it to catch?
 
Did you lubricate the splines on the transmission at all? Disk sticking to the splines? Was the input shaft worn in a pot that could be causing it to catch?

I know we lubed the splines the first time, but I pulled the trans 2 or 3 times after that and can't remember if I did it again or not.

The T5 was fully rebuild and the input shaft was fine.
 
Here's what I noticed on the one I'm doing the swap on:

The cable looked sort of OK but I decided to swap to a new one. When I had it out it was clear that it had been too close to the exhaust for too long (we're running shorty headers). When I reassembled the system I paid special attention to the cable routing and ended up wrapping the exhaust in DEI insulation - that's the ceramic tape that us hot rod folks use for this sort of thing. If you go to BangShift you can find my build thread and it'll show what I did. Directions to the thread in the thread I posted yesterday on here.

If I had to guess your cable has gotten toasty and the inner cable guide (sort of a Teflon sort of stuff) has melted to some degree and is preventing the cable from sliding smoothly inside the guide. Worth a look.

Dan
 
Here's what I noticed on the one I'm doing the swap on:

The cable looked sort of OK but I decided to swap to a new one. When I had it out it was clear that it had been too close to the exhaust for too long (we're running shorty headers). When I reassembled the system I paid special attention to the cable routing and ended up wrapping the exhaust in DEI insulation - that's the ceramic tape that us hot rod folks use for this sort of thing. If you go to BangShift you can find my build thread and it'll show what I did. Directions to the thread in the thread I posted yesterday on here.

If I had to guess your cable has gotten toasty and the inner cable guide (sort of a Teflon sort of stuff) has melted to some degree and is preventing the cable from sliding smoothly inside the guide. Worth a look.

Dan

Curious if you got this sorted out...

I have not. I have been driving it daily and it's strange; some days I will not experience the dragging of the clutch at all. This morning though, it is wet and rainy out and pulling into a parking lot, I put it in first with the clutch completely disengaged and the the clutch chattered something fierce till I was down to about 3 mph, then it smoothed out and went away.

I have sitting on my bench at home a new clutch cable and STS clutch cable bushing to be installed this weekend.
 
Could be that the t5 is not disengaging all the way, depending on how heavy the clutch is, check for firewall flex, or have someone depress the clutch to see if the fork has the full amount of movement
 
The Saab flywheel has a 1-2mm step, and the Ford disk is about 1mm thicker than the Saab disk. How thick is the spacer under the PP?
Diaphragm springs have less force when they get bent past a certain point. You may not have enough clamp load to prevent shudder.

Also, the ceramic disk will not like being "slipped" while down shifting or taking off. They are more on-off. If you slip them a lot, they "grab" and shudder.
 
The Saab flywheel has a 1-2mm step, and the aftermarket USA made Ford disk is about 1mm thicker than the Saab disk. How thick is the spacer under the PP?
Diaphragm springs have less force when they get bent past a certain point. You may not have enough clamp load to prevent shudder.

Also, the ceramic disk will not like being "slipped" while down shifting or taking off. They are more on-off. If you slip them a lot, they "grab" and shudder.

da fuq?:wtf:

I haint never seen no stinkin 1 OR 2 mm step on any real Saab 99 or 900 flywheel..How could the 900 T16v PP be direct interchange with the Volvo 215 B21T PP if there was a step?
Dems plat as a pankaka.
 
da fuq?:wtf:

I haint never seen no stinkin 1 OR 2 mm step on any real Saab 99 or 900 flywheel..How could the 900 T16v PP be direct interchange with the Volvo 215 B21T PP if there was a step?
Dems plat as a pankaka.

Dufaq!? I don't know mang!!! From the pictures of new and used FW for a 2000 9-3 turbo, they all have a step?!
I'm trying to get the exact number from a Saab shop, but no one wants to play nice.

Looks a lot like a step to me... https://www.eeuroparts.com/Parts/28683/Flywheel-Single-Mass-9179136/

http://www.ebay.com/itm/FLYWHEEL-FL...f0ce00d&pid=100005&rk=2&rkt=3&sd=152331636746
 
This far and not a single mention of the pilot bearing being bound up? Come on guys...
That'll definitely do it.

Wouldn't I get some kind of noise or vibration from a seized pilot bearing?

I used the standard Mustang pilot, been running fine so far.

Good point.

What about the opposite? What do you use for a pilot bearing in a T5 conversion?

I too am running the Avalanche Kit which utilizes the Ford T5 Pilot Bearing

da fuq?:wtf:

I haint never seen no stinkin 1 OR 2 mm step on any real Saab 99 or 900 flywheel..How could the 900 T16v PP be direct interchange with the Volvo 215 B21T PP if there was a step?
Dems plat as a pankaka.

Dufaq!? I don't know mang!!! From the pictures of new and used FW for a 2000 9-3 turbo, they all have a step?!
I'm trying to get the exact number from a Saab shop, but no one wants to play nice.

Looks a lot like a step to me...

The Saab flywheel has a 1-2mm step, and the Ford disk is about 1mm thicker than the Saab disk. How thick is the spacer under the PP?
Diaphragm springs have less force when they get bent past a certain point. You may not have enough clamp load to prevent shudder.

Also, the ceramic disk will not like being "slipped" while down shifting or taking off. They are more on-off. If you slip them a lot, they "grab" and shudder.

I don't slip the clutch much at all. My engagement is pretty much on and off. As for my setup, I am not running a SAAB FW, it is an STS Machining Flat Flywheel. It is combing with a SouthBend Ford Splined Disk and a SAAB Viggen PP.

My PP is spaced with 1 washer to account for the extra thickness on the clutch disk so that the release arms sit flat with the PP face.



Could be that the t5 is not disengaging all the way, depending on how heavy the clutch is, check for firewall flex, or have someone depress the clutch to see if the fork has the full amount of movement

I will check for flex tonight. And as for the fork at the bell housing, I actually clearanced the bell housing to make sure the arm was not making contact and had room for full travel.
 
Usually you might have a little noise with the clutch in at idle, but I have seem them with nearly seized bearings and minimal discernible noise.

Put the car on stands, climb under, have a buddy press down on the clutch with the trans in 4th, see if you can easily spin the driveshaft. You should be able to see the outer edge of the disc as well, if you look thru by the shift fork, see if the plate is fully disengaging.
 
Usually you might have a little noise with the clutch in at idle, but I have seem them with nearly seized bearings and minimal discernible noise.

Put the car on stands, climb under, have a buddy press down on the clutch with the trans in 4th, see if you can easily spin the driveshaft. You should be able to see the outer edge of the disc as well, if you look thru by the shift fork, see if the plate is fully disengaging.

Good idea. I am probably going to wind up staying at the shop and pulling everything apart one night this week. Doesn't take that long to take the T5 out haha
 
da fuq?:wtf:

I haint never seen no stinkin 1 OR 2 mm step on any real Saab 99 or 900 flywheel..How could the 900 T16v PP be direct interchange with the Volvo 215 B21T PP if there was a step?
Dems plat as a pankaka.

According to Mr.Medcroft, the flywheel step on a Saab 9-3 turbo is .073in.
The 215/228 PP is from a Saab 9-3 Viggen, not a 900.
I'll have some time to shim the PP tomorrow with an assortment of washers.
 
Dial indicate the bellhousing to the crankshaft centerline and see is if it is centered if it's not it can cause all kinds of strange problems
 
As I can't seem to find the Saab PP and T5 thread, here's some info on the stock saab flywheel step height and clutch disk thickness.

Flywheel 9179136 has a raised outside shoulder where the pressure plate mounts, it is raised 1.55mm

The Sachs equivalent of 5174966 (1878005624) is 7.66mm thick compressed

Just measure whatever t5 disk you have for thickness (compressed), and then add the difference from the stock disk (7.66mm) and then add the flywheel step height of 1.55mm. Viola, instant spacer thickness needed.
 
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