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I'm stuck trying to get the camshaft out.

Fred Gwynne said:
I may be losing my mind. I said the heck with it and thought I would let the pros do the whole thing. So I let the tensioner put tension back on the belt, tightened the tensioner down, tightened down all the cam caps by the correct specs as described in the manual, installed the cam shaft cover with new a new gasket, connected all the spark plug wires onto the correct plugs and connected the grounding wire from the firewall to the cam cover. When I turn the key the car's motor is cranking over but nothing seems to be firing at all. It has that sort of sound that says it's gonna just keep cranking and nothing more.

Do you folks have any suggestions?

I never took the cam pulley off the cam or the belt off the pulley so I can't imagine that I messed up the timing.

Thanks
Click to expand...

It's a pretty straight forward job and if you listen to the advice from JohnMC, Johnlane and highperfauto, you will be able to complete it without damaging anything. I would just get the right special tools, a new belt, a HEPU water pump, the cam seal, aux shaft seal and front crank seal, the shim kit and do the whole job right and not have to tear into the front end for the rest of the cars expected life. Learn something new, build your confidence and save money. Even with the cost of the tools and preventative maintenance parts, you'll be saving money compared to having a pro do it. FYI, paying a professional to do this will cost around $600-$1000.

Good news about this motor is it's not interference, meaning you will not damage the valves or pistons by getting the timing wrong.

PS: I'd also take a look at the rubber on your harmonic balancer. If it is dry rotted it may start slipping and make it tough for you to check the ignition timing as well as causing low alternator output and and power steering and AC issues.
 
Hi Fred. I did all this on the street one time. :(
Normally I'd do it at the garage with help and loads of great tools.
Fred Gwynne said:
... I have tension taken off the belt ...
Click to expand...
At any point in the proceedings did you let the belt on the right hand side go slack and one or more sprockets turned a bit?
Your cam belt looks on its last legs so you do need one of them.
To turn the camshaft bolt I used molegrips on the camshaft, tiny bit of penetrating oil behind the bolt, and a sharp tap with a small hammer on my spanner while the cambelt was wedged down below with some wooden wedges so nothing at all could move : because if anything moved I was into far more work ...
 
nitroboie said:
Check the crank position sensor wire at the back of the head between the valve cover and firewall.

Also, is that a hole in your water hose going from the thermostat?
Click to expand...


Yup it is going from the thermostat. The picture really makes it look more dramatic than it is. The hose itself isn't punctured entirely right through there but I do intend to replace the hose when I get back home later this week.

The crank position sensor wire? Is that this braded wire from the firewall to the valve cover in the pic below? I thought that was just a ground. Please let me know. Thanks


tinypic.com


Edit: I just found out what the sensor wire is. Maybe I did accidently wiggle/nudge the connector enough to break the circuit. That's first on my list to take a look at when I get home. Got my fingers crossed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgojsj5qHZg
 
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esmth said:
The timing on the intermediate shaft gear that drives the distributor may be off a tooth
Click to expand...

The gears/sprockets were all wiggled a bit when I tugged on the belt in both directions but I don't believe any teeth were skipped over. Unless the tension is so loose down there that it did happen...


Thanks for your thoughts.
 
Lando said:
It's a pretty straight forward job and if you listen to the advice from JohnMC, Johnlane and highperfauto, you will be able to complete it without damaging anything. I would just get the right special tools, a new belt, a HEPU water pump, the cam seal, aux shaft seal and front crank seal, the shim kit and do the whole job right and not have to tear into the front end for the rest of the cars expected life. Learn something new, build your confidence and save money. Even with the cost of the tools and preventative maintenance parts, you'll be saving money compared to having a pro do it. FYI, paying a professional to do this will cost around $600-$1000.

Good news about this motor is it's not interference, meaning you will not damage the valves or pistons by getting the timing wrong.

PS: I'd also take a look at the rubber on your harmonic balancer. If it is dry rotted it may start slipping and make it tough for you to check the ignition timing as well as causing low alternator output and and power steering and AC issues.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your suggestion.
 
Dirty Rooster said:
Hi Fred. I did all this on the street one time. :(
Normally I'd do it at the garage with help and loads of great tools.

At any point in the proceedings did you let the belt on the right hand side go slack and one or more sprockets turned a bit?
Your cam belt looks on its last legs so you do need one of them.
To turn the camshaft bolt I used molegrips on the camshaft, tiny bit of penetrating oil behind the bolt, and a sharp tap with a small hammer on my spanner while the cambelt was wedged down below with some wooden wedges so nothing at all could move : because if anything moved I was into far more work ...
Click to expand...

Yes to the tension on the right hand side and the sprockets did turn a slight bit. I wiggled a lot of that stuff. I hope that didn't mean I made the project worse...

There is so many more things involved in swapping cams then I had thought.
 
The only timing belt job I can think of that's easier than these would be on a Subaru. You pull the radiator and have perfect access.
 
I always knock the tensioner tight with a hammer, lightly, since the spring usually doesn't make it right enough for me.
 
I'm about to make an appointment for the local mechanic to work on my car but prior to that I looked around a little more on the internet and I found a thread where someone was having the same problem. Someone told him the valves may be stuck because he had the valve cover off for a while so he should take the plugs out and keep the engine turning over twice for one minute each time and then put the plugs and wires back in and try again. I gave it a go and as soon as I turned the key the motor started to sort of run for maybe 2 seconds. No luck after that so I sprayed starter fluid into the intake manifold which did nothing. All the plugs are sparking. Maybe I'm flooding it. Plugs look pretty wet when I take them out. That's just a quick updated. I don't have it in me to fiddle with the timing and belt change

I cannot find the crank position sensor wire or it's pig tail connector on the back of the motor. Did these things get move around during production of the car? I have an '87 with an auto trans. Thanks
 
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There is no crank sensor on an 87. They use a hall sensor in the distributor. If the plugs were sparking they would not be wet. So I would start by making sure the ignition is really working. If the plugs are wet they are getting fuel. So you need to check ignition for spark and to make sure the timing is correct for things to happen at the proper time.
 
dl242gt said:
There is no crank sensor on an 87. They use a hall sensor in the distributor. If the plugs were sparking they would not be wet. So I would start by making sure the ignition is really working. If the plugs are wet they are getting fuel. So you need to check ignition for spark and to make sure the timing is correct for things to happen at the proper time.
Click to expand...

I'm waiting to hear what the shop says but thank you for the additional education. When I said the plugs were sparking I should have stated that they were visibly sparking when they were out of the motor while the motor was cranking over. Plug wires attached to the plugs of course.
 
Otto Mattik said:
The vacuum line was a give away. I say if you are motivated enuf to swap cams, then you should learn how to properly install one, just my two cents. ;-)
Click to expand...


Did you read my early post which includes my statement of the study of the Haynes service manual which includes a step-by-step procedure? ;-)

By the way I accept no less than 5 cents so do me a favor and point out at least three of my next f' ups in your reply.
 
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VB242 said:
Did you tell the shop you had the cam out? Sounds like you are off a tooth on one of the timing gears.
Click to expand...

Yup I did let them know. I'm guessing that is the problem. I also asked them to replace the belt so hopefully that will set the timing correctly.
 
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