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Multi purpose suspension setup, for track/drift (amateur) events

Tentshedtrev said:
Absolutely necessary:
Welded diff
Click to expand...

Didn't open the diff yet, but I think I have a locker. Jacked the axle up, turned one wheel forward slowly, the other stayed put. When I turned it fast, the other started spinning backwards. AFAIU, this is a locker, right?

If it is, I hear that they are unpredictable on track. Should I swap it out for an opened one and weld it? Should I stock two rear ends and swap them out per event?

I think that I'm over thinking it :D
 
IDK but drifting seems counterintuitive to going quickly, and it seems track and drift setups are completely opposite, maybe 2 cars would be better for your purposes.
 
Msi said:
Didn't open the diff yet, but I think I have a locker. Jacked the axle up, turned one wheel forward slowly, the other stayed put. When I turned it fast, the other started spinning backwards. AFAIU, this is a locker, right?

If it is, I hear that they are unpredictable on track. Should I swap it out for an opened one and weld it? Should I stock two rear ends and swap them out per event?

I think that I'm over thinking it :D
Click to expand...

There's usually a sticker on the axle tube. Driver's side, on the tube just left of the differential, and facing toward the back of the car. Carefully scrape off any under-coating (a razor blade works if you're careful. You can also hold the blade perpendicular do the axle tube and scrape off the coating). If the sticker has '1041', it is the locker. You'll want to modify the locker because it won't start locking up once you're above about 20mph.

Do a search for "locker", in titles only, in performance & modifications. The G80 locker can be modified by cutting off the counter-weight inside, and then it's best to weld the rod in place so the weight doesn't fly apart. The counter-weight is what keeps the locker from locking when wheel speed is above ~20mph. If you cut off this weight, the locker can begin locking at any wheel speed. It is not the best diff for racing or drifting and you may still get some inside wheel spin. I've used one of these modified G80 lockers for road racing and it worked well on medium corners, but very tight corners (2nd gear), it could allow inside wheel spin.

An open diff that you weld can be reliable and predictable. Bring extra axles because you will eventually break an axle shaft at the splines where it goes into the differential.

In general, I would suggest stiffer front springs and negative camber. The front doesn't need to be super low. I would keep the rear fairly soft. Keep the stock springs to start with. When you increase spring rate and sway bar size, you increase the speed of weight transfer. When you try drifting a stiffly sprung car, it's going to transition weight quickly and snap-oversteer if you are still learning car control in a slide (especially transitions). Start out soft, with low grip rear tires. You'll transition from one direction to the other slowly, and your speed will be lower. Increase rear grip, and your speed can increase. Increase spring rates, and you can transition quicker. You don't need a whole lot of changes to start drifting.
 
VB242 said:
IDK but drifting seems counterintuitive to going quickly, and it seems track and drift setups are completely opposite, maybe 2 cars would be better for your purposes.
Click to expand...

I thought that too when I started out. I made a car that got sideways, but didn't go very fast.

Now it's basically a track day setup, and I add a bit more toe-out for drifting. Going from track to drift is a 1/4 turn per side of the tie-rods.
Car sits with zero toe, -2.0deg camber, 6.5deg caster. For drift I go toe-out 1.5deg total.

What I did on my 240:
BNE Select top mounts, max caster and camber setting.
KL Racing controls arms.
BNE Quick Steer Roll Correctors, set to fastest setting and +4 Ackerman
250lb/in front springs, cut wagon springs in the rear
28mm bar in the front, 23mm out back (will probably take this off)
Welded diff.
 
towerymt said:
When you increase spring rate and sway bar size, you increase the speed of weight transfer. When you try drifting a stiffly sprung car, it's going to transition weight quickly and snap-oversteer if you are still learning car control in a slide (especially transitions). Start out soft, with low grip rear tires. You'll transition from one direction to the other slowly, and your speed will be lower. Increase rear grip, and your speed can increase. Increase spring rates, and you can transition quicker. You don't need a whole lot of changes to start drifting.
Click to expand...

This ^^^^ is gold. Thank you!!! Made me realize that going too stiff is actually not a very good idea for a beginner. This has to be a part of every newbie drifting guide.
 
A good drift car would make for a good track car. I'd want a car that does not oversteer because you're going to create oversteer with the rear tires spinning. But the use of toe-out can help that initial turn-in to get things started. You want some balance.

When I tried wide front tires and skinny rear tires because my car was underpowered, I could slide it, but it was slow and transitions were difficult because the car was easy to spin. I'd want equal tire front and rear to start, and eventually wider rear tires when power level is increased.

culberro said:
Car sits with zero toe, -2.0deg camber, 6.5deg caster. For drift I go toe-out 1.5deg total.

What I did on my 240:
BNE Select top mounts, max caster and camber setting.
KL Racing controls arms.
BNE Quick Steer Roll Correctors, set to fastest setting and +4 Ackerman
250lb/in front springs, cut wagon springs in the rear
28mm bar in the front, 23mm out back (will probably take this off)
Welded diff.
Click to expand...
Sounds good to me. :rockon: Did the KL arms make the front track wider? What size wheel/tire and what offset? Everything clears at full lock, I assume? Mostly just curious, rather than asking for specific tips. ;-)

How's your power steering....which fluid, and did you need to add a cooler? I had to switch to synthetic when I went to the middle hole on the BNE roll center spacers, but I didn't need a cooler (autocross only).
 
culberro said:
Now it's basically a track day setup, and I add a bit more toe-out for drifting.
Click to expand...

Great insight into some actual setup figures. Thanks!!
What about the rear end stiffness (sway bars)? Same for both track/drift events?
 
towerymt said:
Sounds good to me. :rockon: Did the KL arms make the front track wider? What size wheel/tire and what offset? Everything clears at full lock, I assume? Mostly just curious, rather than asking for specific tips. ;-)

How's your power steering....which fluid, and did you need to add a cooler? I had to switch to synthetic when I went to the middle hole on the BNE roll center spacers, but I didn't need a cooler (autocross only).
Click to expand...

The wheels are 16x7 oem steelies that I flipped the centers on. I can't remember what the offset it at the moment... but I can measure them in a few days.

The KL arms are 25mm wider per side, and move the ball-joint forward 15mm. I ended up plating the top and bottom after bending one at a drift day. There is light touching at full lock, may need rack limiters, or move to the middle setting.

PS definitely needs a cooler. It gets HOT and the pump sounds pissed when it's a hot day. I'm currently using Redline power steering fluid, and it seems much happier with that.
 
Msi said:
Great insight into some actual setup figures. Thanks!!
What about the rear end stiffness (sway bars)? Same for both track/drift events?
Click to expand...

I want to remove the rear bar for more grip at drifting, it is pretty over-steer prone with the bar on the track as well.
 
dl242gt said:
Don't forget to look into rear subframe upgrades. You can reinforce the stock one or buy something from Ben.
Click to expand...

I am aware of the trailing arms beefing up with weld on plates. Is there anything else? I'd appreciate a few search key word :)

I've seen Ben's name pop up in numerous threads, but was not able to pin point who is it exactly. Have a "link" to Ben?
 
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