Chesh's 750R Project, and no the 5 is not a Typo - Page 7

CHESH740R · 10-07-2009, 10:18 AM

Somedays I wonder why i'm even bothering with this project, keeps raining on and off, when it doesnt rain I go to do something and it starts to rain, decide to work in the interior and get stung by a bumblebee that had made house in the car.

I later find even more rust in the shell, captive bolts shear inside the chassis making me even more annoyed with this car, its like it doesnt want to live at all.

I know how Dr Frankenstien felt now.

I think i'm going to do a BBQ and Mike sell all the bits off and buy me something normal, boring and reliable like a Toyota Camry. A car with about as much soul as i have left for this bloody project and cars in general.

Dr Dokeh · 10-07-2009, 11:32 AM

I know the feeling on the rain, I'd kill for garage big enough to fit a car in

Where's the rust? Hope it's nothing serious.

Turbeam · 10-07-2009, 05:23 PM

Stick with it. Its going in the right direction and you should have most of the bits you need to complete it too.

One small thing, I dont think your new short serpentine belt goes far enough around the alternator pulley to drive it. You might find that there is so much slip that the windings don't even excite, and the stock tensioner won't apply enough pressure o the belt to do it.

Could the idler pulley below the alternator be raised a bit so that the belt runs around more of the pulleys circumference? Unfortunately the belt would then probably be too short.

That also looks like the 120Amp alternator from the 960, it might be better staying with an 80Amp?

Sander · 10-07-2009, 05:31 PM

Rain sucks, yes. It's constantly on and off here too. What I did today was set up a big sun umbrella thing (don't know the english word for it) right in front of the engine bay. Works perfectly for on and off rain!

One of these things:

CHESH740R · 10-07-2009, 05:31 PM

The alternator is the stock T5 one that the engine came with.

With regards to the belt, the belt is the correct part for a T5 engine without airconditioning, a fairly rare combo but there are some T5's here without aircon. I'm not aware they did anything with the tensioner and the belt is nice and tight.

But I will have another look when its not raining.

foggyjames · 10-07-2009, 06:19 PM

When thinking of giving up...watch...

Tim Williams' 400+ bhp 850 T5 doesn't have AC, and runs that exact setup.

cheers

James

Turbeam · 10-08-2009, 02:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHESH740R

The alternator is the stock T5 one that the engine came with.

With regards to the belt, the belt is the correct part for a T5 engine without airconditioning, a fairly rare combo but there are some T5's here without aircon. I'm not aware they did anything with the tensioner and the belt is nice and tight.

But I will have another look when its not raining.

I just can't believe that is the correct routing for a non-A/C equipped car.... I'm sure you would have charging problems like that.

I looked in the Haynes manual, but it doesn't show it. (every time I have bought one recently I have sworn I won't buy another)

If you look back at your own photo on page 1 you will see that the belt wraps around the crankshaft and alternator pulleys roughly 50% of their circumference, and the power steering pump a little more. This is more like I would have expected.

With the alternator pulley being at a much smaller diameter as well it really needs to have a good bit of contact with the belt to provide the drive as there can be quite high loads on a big amp alternator working hard.

Putting more tension on the belt wont help, and will only reduce belt and tensioner/ idler bearing life. The belt routing and length should be exactly the same as any non-A/C whiteblock, so the belt should really be very common.

I'm not sure if there would be an extra idler pulley or if the belt route is just completely wrong..... an easy thing to do even after having just removed an old one!

Has anyone got a photo of the belt routing for a stock N/A 850?

foggyjames · 10-08-2009, 08:11 AM

Stock N/A belt routing is the same as for a turbo....if it has AC. Non-AC whiteblocks are pretty uncommon, so it's an unusual sight. I've seen several, and that is correct, honestly. It might look a bit wierd, but that's how it is. Those ribbed belts get a LOT more 'drive' down than a V-belt.

cheers

James

SteveP · 10-08-2009, 09:18 AM

Keep at it Chesh - it's coming along! Having taken your time on things you should be able to enjoy the thing once it's all done. Besides, the rust can't be that bad, it's not a 300

Turbeam · 10-08-2009, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foggyjames

Stock N/A belt routing is the same as for a turbo....if it has AC. Non-AC whiteblocks are pretty uncommon, so it's an unusual sight. I've seen several, and that is correct, honestly. It might look a bit wierd, but that's how it is. Those ribbed belts get a LOT more 'drive' down than a V-belt.

cheers

James

I don't think non A/C whiteblocks are that uncommon. My wife has owned 2 850s in the past and neither had A/C.. I would guess A/C to non-A/C on UK 850s would be about 50/50.

My memory isn't what it once was, but having worked on these engines quite a lot that routing just doesn't look familiar.... or correct?

Saying that, the belt does fit for length fitted that way with the tensioner sitting at the right angle?

Someone on here MUST have details of this as I'm sure quite a few would want to do it this way after removing the A/C compressor on any whiteblock.....

Captain Bondo · 10-08-2009, 02:13 PM

That's the correct routing for an early motor.

On the 99+ motors that use a different tensioner, non-ac versions use the same belt and routing as version with AC, the compressor is replaced with a bracket and idler pulley.

The later arrangement does have a lot more belt wrap on the alt pulley, but yeah volvo did do it that way on the early cars.

Dr Dokeh · 10-08-2009, 02:19 PM

That's for a '94 960, allegedly.

Turbeam · 10-08-2009, 02:31 PM

Yes, that is correct (but still doesn't look good to me).

I just googled it and found it here too....

http://www.volvoclub.org.uk/tech/ser...eltRouting.pdf

It is a long time since I played with one of these. I normally remove the A/C compressor and power steering pump, alter the bracket to get the alternator to fit much closer to the block with a very short belt, and tension it by pivoting the alternator on its bottom mount in the 'usual' way.

I keep looking at that diagram and it still doesn't seem right.... but it obviously works and is!

foggyjames · 10-08-2009, 09:14 PM

As far as I'm aware, only "S" spec 850s didn't have AC...in which case anything higher (SE, GLE, GLT, CD?) did. I don't know of the exact ratio...and my experience may be skewed by mainly dealing with 2.5 20v and T5 models (which I reckon are statistically more likely to be higher spec)...but I would have said that way more than 50% of 850s had AC before you mentioned that. Maybe I've just ignored all the 10v 'S' models out there!

cheers

James

Turbeam · 10-09-2009, 03:13 AM

I'm not sure of the ratio, but my wifes cars were a 2.0 GLE and a 2.5 GLT (both 20 valve) and neither of them had it. (GLT had leather but no A/C)

I source most of my parts from the breaker I have sponsorship with and tend to lift the bonnet of every Volvo he gets in for a look-see, and I don't see A/C all that much on 850s?

Not sure on what models it would be standard and on which an option, maybe standard fitment on T5s and others? I've never seen a 960 without A/C yet.

Sorry, this is a bit off topic.

How are things going with the sump?

CHESH740R · 10-10-2009, 04:19 PM

Don't worry I'll keep at it, I picked the Camry up on Thursday and so far I'm honestly not that impressed with it, probably get rid of it again quite soon.

dirtbike · 10-10-2009, 06:39 PM

keep at it dammit...
I want a ride in it before I leave!!!

I got a new company whip...
As you know some numpty crashed into and killed the Astra so I had that Clio as a loaner now I've got a 59 plate TDI golf and it's quite nice, which is a shame because I wanted to hate it's german efficiency lol

Speak soon
Nick

foggyjames · 10-10-2009, 08:45 PM

Just beware of the Camry's big brother...We don't want you catching Dokeh-disease now!

cheers

James

BoxDriver2 · 10-11-2009, 03:04 AM

Nice work!

I did see your PM as well, will reply shortly

CHESH740R · 11-03-2009, 12:27 PM

Well I had two days off from work recently, the first day was spent getting the 940 an MOT for another year, then pratting about with a Corsa's Starter motor.

Today it looked a promising day of work, but it kept on pissing down everytime i went out to the car, so I amused myself a little by tidying up the garage a bit in an effort to find some stuff.

Got some Tbrick Stickers in the mail, so found a use for some of them.

Then since there wasnt much else to do, i thought i'd get one thing crossed of my list which was to get the Turbo Oil feed pipe made.

So I called out a local firm to come round and below is the results, after seeing the destruction of Ken's GT turbo due to a small piece of **** blocking the restrictor in the turbo oil feed, I have added a Oil feed filter. Several friends that run Scoobies and Cosworths have sworn by these for years. As i'll be starting with a junkyard motor I didnt want to kill my turbo.

Then from the top, hose might be slightly too long, but i've got to fab up some clamps to hold the hose yet, so i may get it shortend later.

Whilst the guy was there, i worked out all the various fittings i will need for my Oil cooler pipes and fuel line feeds.

Which I'll just jot down here should i need them,

Oil cooler from engine take off 12L straight fitting
Oil cooler 7/8JIC 90 degree fitting

850 Fuel Rail fittin 1/2 JIC 90 degree fitting.

Anyway small piece of progress, but its now back to the list and to get as many jobs crossed off before the car goes in to have the intercooler built the 1st week of december.

CHESH740R · 11-11-2009, 02:06 PM

Another few hours on the car, another few jobs crossed off the list and many more added to the list.

IPD V6 Bar installed, shame it has to come off everytime i want to change the oil filter but I can live with that.

Watching paint dry as i paint the 960 crossmember strengthing brackets, pics of them installed tommorrow in daylight

Whilst that was was going on i decided to look at the PCV system. I was going to use the standard 850 Crankcase breather box but when running high boost i dont think it can cope and also you have to slightly modify the engine mount to make it fit.

So using the standard rubber hose that connects to the block as a filler and using another 90 degree rubber hose from the top of the crank case box i had a pipe that fitted without hacking the mount.

Now all i have to do is run all these pipes, including one from the 960 sump not pictured to a catch can(which i've yet to buy)

F13ND · 11-11-2009, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHESH740R

IPD V6 Bar installed, shame it has to come off everytime i want to change the oil filter but I can live with that.

You can always install a relocator if you get desperate. It's looking good!

Turbosteen · 11-11-2009, 03:09 PM

Looks really nice, didn't know IPD had a V6 bar

This is going to be one of the best combinations, 5 cylinder sound and power in a RWD chassis (740FTW), oh, 750 then

Captain Bondo · 11-11-2009, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHESH740R

IPD V6 Bar installed, shame it has to come off everytime i want to change the oil filter but I can live with that.

I use an oil filter relocation kit to solve this problem.

CHESH740R · 11-20-2009, 03:45 PM

Well I have 9 days off work to get this project as finished as can be and hopefully turning the key at the end of it. As allways the British weather seems to know when i'm on holiday so i saw the morning spent watching the rain.

The afternoon afforded me some time to work on redoing the copper brake lines in Cupra Nickel pipe which doesnt kink and allowed me to move them further away from the header.

Then i found some various old heatshields and stuck them on vaguely, once i get my header and downpipe back then i can see if they will clear and offer some protection, or i will be making my own heat shields.

Then I added the little 960 crossmember braces, these are found on facelifted 960's, i got mine from the 960 donor which i took the crossmember from.

As you can see, the brace has a captive nut to replace the standard nut that your 700/900series would have had.

If retrofitting these brackets to a 700/900 series, you may find that the smaller hole is not present on your crossmember, it wasnt on my old 700 series crossmember but is on my 940's.

The other end of the brace is held underneath the crossmember plate.

I'm not sure if this is a 700 plate or is there a 960 plate?? If i recall correctly the other spare 2 bolt holes are for holding on the undershield???

10-07-2009, 10:18 AM	#151
CHESH740R Board Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: England, that little island that everyone fled except me.	Somedays I wonder why i'm even bothering with this project, keeps raining on and off, when it doesnt rain I go to do something and it starts to rain, decide to work in the interior and get stung by a bumblebee that had made house in the car. I later find even more rust in the shell, captive bolts shear inside the chassis making me even more annoyed with this car, its like it doesnt want to live at all. I know how Dr Frankenstien felt now. I think i'm going to do a BBQ and Mike sell all the bits off and buy me something normal, boring and reliable like a Toyota Camry. A car with about as much soul as i have left for this bloody project and cars in general. __________________ & & @ 87 745 Turbo & 88 744 Turbo & 96 945 Sport Turbo 1 RIP, 1 mutating and 1 Daily Driver!!!!

10-07-2009, 11:32 AM	#152
Dr Dokeh lol fwd wtf Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: South Wales, UK	I know the feeling on the rain, I'd kill for garage big enough to fit a car in Where's the rust? Hope it's nothing serious. __________________ 1998 Volvo S90 1996 Volvo 850R

10-07-2009, 05:31 PM	#154
Sander Board Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: The Netherlands	Rain sucks, yes. It's constantly on and off here too. What I did today was set up a big sun umbrella thing (don't know the english word for it) right in front of the engine bay. Works perfectly for on and off rain! One of these things: __________________ '97 Volvo 480 ES 2.0L Click! '89 Volvo 745 GLT 16V+Turbo Click!

10-07-2009, 06:19 PM	#156
foggyjames Ryan's spanner monkey Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Lincoln, UK	When thinking of giving up...watch... Tim Williams' 400+ bhp 850 T5 doesn't have AC, and runs that exact setup. cheers James __________________ '98 V70R '88 360 Turbo Intercooler '84 360 GLT '81 343 GLS R-Sport '80 343 DL '69 164 PM me if you're looking for Euro parts!

10-08-2009, 09:18 AM	#159
SteveP Board Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Birmingham, UK	Keep at it Chesh - it's coming along! Having taken your time on things you should be able to enjoy the thing once it's all done. Besides, the rust can't be that bad, it's not a 300 __________________ 1997 - Volvo S70 2.5 20v 151k 1984 - Volvo 360 GLS B19A 45k

10-07-2009, 05:23 PM	#153
Turbeam Board Member Join Date: Jul 2009	Stick with it. Its going in the right direction and you should have most of the bits you need to complete it too. One small thing, I dont think your new short serpentine belt goes far enough around the alternator pulley to drive it. You might find that there is so much slip that the windings don't even excite, and the stock tensioner won't apply enough pressure o the belt to do it. Could the idler pulley below the alternator be raised a bit so that the belt runs around more of the pulleys circumference? Unfortunately the belt would then probably be too short. That also looks like the 120Amp alternator from the 960, it might be better staying with an 80Amp?

10-07-2009, 05:31 PM	#155
CHESH740R Board Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: England, that little island that everyone fled except me.	The alternator is the stock T5 one that the engine came with. With regards to the belt, the belt is the correct part for a T5 engine without airconditioning, a fairly rare combo but there are some T5's here without aircon. I'm not aware they did anything with the tensioner and the belt is nice and tight. But I will have another look when its not raining.

10-08-2009, 08:11 AM	#158
foggyjames Ryan's spanner monkey Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Lincoln, UK	Stock N/A belt routing is the same as for a turbo....if it has AC. Non-AC whiteblocks are pretty uncommon, so it's an unusual sight. I've seen several, and that is correct, honestly. It might look a bit wierd, but that's how it is. Those ribbed belts get a LOT more 'drive' down than a V-belt. cheers James

10-08-2009, 02:19 PM	#162
Dr Dokeh lol fwd wtf Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: South Wales, UK	That's for a '94 960, allegedly.

10-08-2009, 02:31 PM	#163
Turbeam Board Member Join Date: Jul 2009	Yes, that is correct (but still doesn't look good to me). I just googled it and found it here too.... http://www.volvoclub.org.uk/tech/ser...eltRouting.pdf It is a long time since I played with one of these. I normally remove the A/C compressor and power steering pump, alter the bracket to get the alternator to fit much closer to the block with a very short belt, and tension it by pivoting the alternator on its bottom mount in the 'usual' way. I keep looking at that diagram and it still doesn't seem right.... but it obviously works and is!

10-08-2009, 09:14 PM	#164
foggyjames Ryan's spanner monkey Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Lincoln, UK	As far as I'm aware, only "S" spec 850s didn't have AC...in which case anything higher (SE, GLE, GLT, CD?) did. I don't know of the exact ratio...and my experience may be skewed by mainly dealing with 2.5 20v and T5 models (which I reckon are statistically more likely to be higher spec)...but I would have said that way more than 50% of 850s had AC before you mentioned that. Maybe I've just ignored all the 10v 'S' models out there! cheers James

10-09-2009, 03:13 AM	#165
Turbeam Board Member Join Date: Jul 2009	I'm not sure of the ratio, but my wifes cars were a 2.0 GLE and a 2.5 GLT (both 20 valve) and neither of them had it. (GLT had leather but no A/C) I source most of my parts from the breaker I have sponsorship with and tend to lift the bonnet of every Volvo he gets in for a look-see, and I don't see A/C all that much on 850s? Not sure on what models it would be standard and on which an option, maybe standard fitment on T5s and others? I've never seen a 960 without A/C yet. Sorry, this is a bit off topic. How are things going with the sump?

10-10-2009, 04:19 PM	#166
CHESH740R Board Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: England, that little island that everyone fled except me.	Don't worry I'll keep at it, I picked the Camry up on Thursday and so far I'm honestly not that impressed with it, probably get rid of it again quite soon.

10-10-2009, 06:39 PM	#167
dirtbike Board Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Cheltenham, UK	keep at it dammit... I want a ride in it before I leave!!! I got a new company whip... As you know some numpty crashed into and killed the Astra so I had that Clio as a loaner now I've got a 59 plate TDI golf and it's quite nice, which is a shame because I wanted to hate it's german efficiency lol Speak soon Nick __________________ "Volvord MK1 Escort Project" : http://www.jwbr29544.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/escort

10-10-2009, 08:45 PM	#168
foggyjames Ryan's spanner monkey Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Lincoln, UK	Just beware of the Camry's big brother...We don't want you catching Dokeh-disease now! cheers James

10-11-2009, 03:04 AM	#169
BoxDriver2 Location: Michigan Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Detroit	Nice work! I did see your PM as well, will reply shortly __________________ 88 745Ti // 06 Saab 92x // 71 Pontiac LeMans // 02 Avalanche Z-71 - All Modified Towerymt: after you finally do part with the 745, will you still buy parts for it? Towerymt: phantom car syndrome

11-03-2009, 12:27 PM	#170
CHESH740R Board Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: England, that little island that everyone fled except me.	Well I had two days off from work recently, the first day was spent getting the 940 an MOT for another year, then pratting about with a Corsa's Starter motor. Today it looked a promising day of work, but it kept on pissing down everytime i went out to the car, so I amused myself a little by tidying up the garage a bit in an effort to find some stuff. Got some Tbrick Stickers in the mail, so found a use for some of them. Then since there wasnt much else to do, i thought i'd get one thing crossed of my list which was to get the Turbo Oil feed pipe made. So I called out a local firm to come round and below is the results, after seeing the destruction of Ken's GT turbo due to a small piece of **** blocking the restrictor in the turbo oil feed, I have added a Oil feed filter. Several friends that run Scoobies and Cosworths have sworn by these for years. As i'll be starting with a junkyard motor I didnt want to kill my turbo. Then from the top, hose might be slightly too long, but i've got to fab up some clamps to hold the hose yet, so i may get it shortend later. Whilst the guy was there, i worked out all the various fittings i will need for my Oil cooler pipes and fuel line feeds. Which I'll just jot down here should i need them, Oil cooler from engine take off 12L straight fitting Oil cooler 7/8JIC 90 degree fitting 850 Fuel Rail fittin 1/2 JIC 90 degree fitting. Anyway small piece of progress, but its now back to the list and to get as many jobs crossed off before the car goes in to have the intercooler built the 1st week of december.

11-11-2009, 02:06 PM	#171
CHESH740R Board Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: England, that little island that everyone fled except me.	Another few hours on the car, another few jobs crossed off the list and many more added to the list. IPD V6 Bar installed, shame it has to come off everytime i want to change the oil filter but I can live with that. Watching paint dry as i paint the 960 crossmember strengthing brackets, pics of them installed tommorrow in daylight Whilst that was was going on i decided to look at the PCV system. I was going to use the standard 850 Crankcase breather box but when running high boost i dont think it can cope and also you have to slightly modify the engine mount to make it fit. So using the standard rubber hose that connects to the block as a filler and using another 90 degree rubber hose from the top of the crank case box i had a pipe that fitted without hacking the mount. Now all i have to do is run all these pipes, including one from the 960 sump not pictured to a catch can(which i've yet to buy)

11-11-2009, 03:09 PM	#173
Turbosteen You know Alfred Büchi? Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: The Netherlands, Europe	Looks really nice, didn't know IPD had a V6 bar This is going to be one of the best combinations, 5 cylinder sound and power in a RWD chassis (740FTW), oh, 750 then __________________ Project '82 \| B204GT

11-20-2009, 03:45 PM	#175
CHESH740R Board Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: England, that little island that everyone fled except me.	Well I have 9 days off work to get this project as finished as can be and hopefully turning the key at the end of it. As allways the British weather seems to know when i'm on holiday so i saw the morning spent watching the rain. The afternoon afforded me some time to work on redoing the copper brake lines in Cupra Nickel pipe which doesnt kink and allowed me to move them further away from the header. Then i found some various old heatshields and stuck them on vaguely, once i get my header and downpipe back then i can see if they will clear and offer some protection, or i will be making my own heat shields. Then I added the little 960 crossmember braces, these are found on facelifted 960's, i got mine from the 960 donor which i took the crossmember from. As you can see, the brace has a captive nut to replace the standard nut that your 700/900series would have had. If retrofitting these brackets to a 700/900 series, you may find that the smaller hole is not present on your crossmember, it wasnt on my old 700 series crossmember but is on my 940's. The other end of the brace is held underneath the crossmember plate. I'm not sure if this is a 700 plate or is there a 960 plate?? If i recall correctly the other spare 2 bolt holes are for holding on the undershield???

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