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Old 01-14-2012, 04:13 PM   #1
e smith
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I am thinking I would like to install the vw/volvo d24t engine and transmission into my 78 bertone coupe. Any thoughts on this from anyone?
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Old 01-14-2012, 05:34 PM   #2
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if you do it with an open downpipe out the side, i think it might be interesting. 262 bertones are gorgeous.
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Old 01-14-2012, 06:17 PM   #3
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Do it!!!
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Old 01-14-2012, 06:38 PM   #4
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While that conversion would really be simple I can think of lots of reasons to not do that. First being that the VW diesel engine was never known for a long life. My non-turbo '82 lasted for 180k miles with great attention to maintenance.

One day someone will say 'You could have had a V8'. http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=250353

Or if you are determined to do it you should at least paint the engine Caterpillar yellow.

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Old 01-14-2012, 09:29 PM   #5
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What was the reason for your engine finally failing at 180k miles? I have read many comments in the d24t.com website showing that quite a few of the diesels have obtained well over 300k miles without a tear down. Did you run synthetic oil in your vehicle? I have heard that running full synthetic oil in these engines greatly extends their longevity. In any case I am not to overly concerned in regards to wearing the engine out given I drive this vehicle approximately 4k miles a year. I have always liked the diesel sound and felt that this car supplied with a turbo diesel motor should have sufficent power and great fuel economy.
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Old 01-14-2012, 09:35 PM   #6
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while your at it, put an hx35w or something on it. don't just go with the stock turbo.

fiddle with the pump too..
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Old 01-14-2012, 09:46 PM   #7
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I used the best non synthetic oil with the required SAE specification available, 3k oil changes. Engine slowly failed due to loss of compression. Rebuilt the injectors and injector pump at 110k miles. While I got good fuel economy I would not consider it great. I had a VW Jetta diesel at the same time and it got GREAT fuel economy with the 4 cylinder version of the same engine.

The D24 did not accelerate, it accumulated speed.
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Old 01-14-2012, 09:55 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e smith View Post
I am thinking I would like to install the vw/volvo d24t engine and transmission into my 78 bertone coupe. Any thoughts on this from anyone?
I think this is one of the worst ideas I have ever heard.

A much better conversion would be to put a VW TDI motor in it. Much more power and a far more robust engine. Josh (yoshifab) has one in his.
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Old 01-14-2012, 09:57 PM   #9
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Thanks for the feedback! I have had the opportunity to drive both the turbo and non turbo volvo diesels and found the turbo model to be significantly more powerful than the non turbo model, with plenty of get up and go as well.
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Old 01-15-2012, 04:31 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wren View Post
I think this is one of the worst ideas I have ever heard.

A much better conversion would be to put a VW TDI motor in it. Much more power and a far more robust engine. Josh (yoshifab) has one in his.
Not really, TDI's use pretty much the same crap, different injectors and combustion chambers.
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Old 01-16-2012, 01:59 AM   #11
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Different engine entirely from my understanding. How many TDI's on the road vs. D24's?
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Old 01-16-2012, 02:29 AM   #12
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Most D24 parts interchange with 1.6 IDI VW.
VW raised displacement to 1.9 IDI
then they changed the injection to direct
You can mix n match injection pumps, maifolds, accesories etc. It's still the same junk with more one use bolts.
the first VAG TDI was the 2.5 Audi 100 motor

TDI 5cyl 2.5


and in IDI trim(2.0 5 cyl)


Same ****, one more cyl


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Old 01-16-2012, 07:02 AM   #13
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I think it would be a great conversion, as long as you get a good donor engine, and make sure you have turbo and IC. I bet a N/A D24 would be a right dog!

I have a UK 765 D24Tic auto estate, which must be a fair bit heavier than a 262C. Used to be a bit of a dog, but with rebuilt injectors, some pump adjustments, more psi, etc. it's suprisingly quick. I wouldn't doubt that a well sorted red block has more potential, but my D24 runs on WVO which costs less than 30p/ltr.
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Old 01-16-2012, 01:14 PM   #14
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I stand corrected. I does seem interesting that the D24's have such a bad reputation while the TDI motors have a good one.
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Old 01-16-2012, 06:20 PM   #15
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Volvo's 12000 mi oil change interval was crap, and the cooling system is beyond retarded. The D24 is not common, and not tolerant of improper service. The TDI isn't that tolerant either, but being common, there are a good amount of folk who know how to fix them. If you don't do the work youerself, a TDI can easily cost more than the price of the car in repairs.

If you do the timing belt right, get the crank pulley bolted on tight, and don't overheat, neither one is prone to sudden engine failure. fail at any one of those tasks, and it will be a major job or engine replacement.

Half the dead D24's Ive seen were killed by somebody not torquing the crank bolt enough.
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Old 01-16-2012, 09:47 PM   #16
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Do the TDI's suffer from the cracked head at the valve seats syndrome as the D24's do?
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Old 01-17-2012, 12:38 AM   #17
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Cracks between the valves look scary, but don't hurt anything unless you can fit the edge of a nickel in there. TDIs don't seem to get it as bad.
They need a $400+ intake cleaning

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Old 02-26-2012, 03:04 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 745 TurboGreasel View Post
Volvo's 12000 mi oil change interval was crap, and the cooling system is beyond retarded. The D24 is not common, and not tolerant of improper service. The TDI isn't that tolerant either, but being common, there are a good amount of folk who know how to fix them. If you don't do the work youerself, a TDI can easily cost more than the price of the car in repairs.

If you do the timing belt right, get the crank pulley bolted on tight, and don't overheat, neither one is prone to sudden engine failure. fail at any one of those tasks, and it will be a major job or engine replacement.

Half the dead D24's Ive seen were killed by somebody not torquing the crank bolt enough.
^^ 100% agree with all of the above. The other half were either killed quickly by overheating, or killed slowly by incorrect (non-synthetic) oil use or by owners who slowly got more and more tired of their poorly-starting, poorly-running, loud, smoky Volvo Diesel after some gorilla mechanic changed the timing belt w/o proper tools and methods, didn't get the cam and IP timing set right, and it never ran the same again.

Provided proper basic care and maintenance, a D24T is as hard to kill as a redblock, or harder.

More TDI's on the road because there number produced and sold in the US is greater by orders of magnitude, and the cars are at least 10 years newer, parts and special tools are more available, and more mechanics have some clue what they are doing working on them. There are more late-model gas Jettas on the road than early 1980s gas Volvos, too.

TDI's can be disasters too if not worked on right, but one reason they are a little more difficult to really screw up than a D24/T or other old-school mechanical diesel is that the computerized control of injection timing gives the engine some degree of ability to compensate for the work of a sloppy mechanic. If a guy does a timing belt on a TDI without the proper tools and procedures and just slips a new belt on like you would on an Accord, without doing the work to set cam and IP timing, the TDI's ECU can move the injection timing around enough that even if it is pretty far off, the car will still start and run basically OK. It will not run the way it should but in most cases it will run well enough to not turn the car into a complete turd, and many owners will not really know the difference.

By comparison, if you did the same thing to a Volvo diesel, or an old 1.6L Rabbit diesel, or AAZ, etc, then if the timing is off it is off and nothing will be there to compensate for it. This causes the motor to run like trash, and then maybe one or two glow plugs dies, the car starts like dog crap and runs like dog crap and makes the owner feel like dog crap, and off to the junkyard it goes. And even though it is all due to a mechanic's negligence and nothing to do with the car, the engine gets blamed, its bad reputation grows, and before too long the whole thing becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy.

Two diesel Volvos I regularly service are just about to turn over 300,000 miles, on original motors. Neither one has been babied and both are strong and healthy. Proper care and maintenance.... like anything else.
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Old 02-26-2012, 09:24 AM   #19
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I agree completely.....Having had some experience with both the Volvo´s back in the day , and with both the 4 and 5 cyl variant in the VW' s
I believe the first D24 only had 11 mm headbolts , but they were upgraded early on to 12 mm , and I guess some casting upgrades because headgasket leaks.
All these engines will suffer if overheated , every VW designed engine I am familiar with ( IE not them all !) have had these issues.
To my knowledge , these engines were the first to use the cam belt to drive the waterpump , wich is a stupid design for rather obvious reasons. Also , on some models the crank pulley must be tightened so hard , that the car will almost tip down from the lift , seriously !
And they still come loose , even with factory tightened bolts on cars thats never been in for a cam belt yet. When that happens , usually its goodbye engine !
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Old 02-27-2012, 09:45 PM   #20
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Here is my friends d24T in a 84 245. it only took 8 hours to do the motor swap and driving it end of the day. The car was already a diesel with the NA d24. Its has M46 it was bw35 really crappy in a NA. The motor was rebuilt 17,000 miles ago. runs great had no issues. He running full synthetic diesel rated motor oil.

We used a D24 NA oil pan on the D24T so it will clear the cross member, the D24T one WILL NOT fit in a 240. You can notch the cross member so the D24T oil pan can fit. Just used the same D24 NA motor mounts. If you decied to used the D24 NA pan you must drill and oil return line into the pan for the turbo.

These motors are really fun, Look out for water and oil leaks and fix them promptly

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Old 02-27-2012, 11:08 PM   #21
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Warning:
142 D24T hotness
http://www.viddler.com/v/4b57add7
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Old 02-29-2012, 11:57 PM   #22
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Hmm. D24T in anything is a great idea. but if you don't understand them and want it anyway, Get a D24T expert to assist you in your VW diesel education!

TDI's I don't like so much because of the computerization.

I must perfer The sound and feel of the IDI.

Last week on 26East I'm traveling a steady 55mph and this Red 850 I think it was an R model.
me in the D24T powered baby sh!t yellow '79 wagon Take notice, I raise the boost on him a couple times just so he can hear my larger TO4E compressor working(6psi) I hear him floor and try to walk on me, hah Auto heard it kick down into 3rd. I left mine in 5th (M47) so I slowly throw more fuel on the fire boost jumps up to 10 psi then I give it all, 14.7 psi (1bar boost) my diesel is working! I start gaining on him while he's still on it. I am amazed maybe his turbo isn't setup right.... But I thought 850 R's were pretty quick? (/end antidote)

I am in full support of this Bertone D24T idea. Definately man. You said to put it in a 780 Bertone? You'll need the D24T engine and the tranny! GEt a stick model.!!! but the ZF 22 isn't bad.. I kind of like it. You'll also need the Diesel cross member or failing that 16v crossmember because the drivers side lower mount is part of the crossmember. Otherwise you'll have to fab something.
(((EDIT))) hah I miss read you. 78 Bertone. BLack it all out and make it a Lone Bertone!!!
I bought this article off Ebay don't know where I put it. but it was the Lone Bertone. and I guess someone in California +Teed a D24 Way back in the early 80's and shoved that into a black on black 262c Bertone! Fricken cool. They even intercooled.
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Old 10-18-2012, 01:28 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 77volvo245 View Post
Here is my friends d24T in a 84 245. it only took 8 hours to do the motor swap and driving it end of the day. The car was already a diesel with the NA d24. Its has M46 it was bw35 really crappy in a NA. The motor was rebuilt 17,000 miles ago. runs great had no issues. He running full synthetic diesel rated motor oil.

We used a D24 NA oil pan on the D24T so it will clear the cross member, the D24T one WILL NOT fit in a 240. You can notch the cross member so the D24T oil pan can fit. Just used the same D24 NA motor mounts. If you decied to used the D24 NA pan you must drill and oil return line into the pan for the turbo.

These motors are really fun, Look out for water and oil leaks and fix them promptly

Nice looking rig. Now you need an intercooler. I'm a new member as of today. I'm currently finishing adding an intercooler to my d24t 240 wagon. Can't wait to see/feel/smell the results.
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