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Old 04-14-2012, 07:39 PM   #1
xypex982
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Default 89 240 DL CA smog failed help.

So my girl's 240 wagon failed with its b230f. The volvo passed everything but the NO(PPM).

Her readings were

15mph@1759rpm
14.9% CO2
0.0 %O2
HC(PPM) 81M 37AVG 35Meas
CO % .52M.13AVG .14Meas
[B]NO(PPM) 554M 277AVG 665Meas

25mph@1778rpm
14.8% CO2
0.0 CO@
HC(PPM) 63Max 27AVG 8Meas
CO% .43Max .10AVG .04Meas
NO(PPM) 511Max 215AVG 625Meas


Since it is so close to passing and all other readings seem in order, what do you all suggest? I know with my 3000gt even engine oil weight makes a difference, so any tips to help me pass?

I have heard that a tank of premium before the test helps burn off the gunk, but should there be premium in the tank during the test itself? What sort of tune up items should be addressed other than spark plugs/rotor and basic servicing. I do know it has a little hesitation starting when cold but it always starts/runs, just idles a bit rough while cold.

Thanks for any and all help just trying to finally finish up this smog crap so it can get some legit tags.
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Old 04-14-2012, 08:11 PM   #2
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You are so close to passing. How hot did you get the cat before testing? It may help to really give it a good romping beforehand and not shut it off before testing. Does the 89 have EGR?

A tuneup is always a good idea if it's been a while. Change plugs, cap, rotor; test the wires and coil. Check the o2 sensor as well. Check for vacuum leaks!! You could probably stand to run a little bit richer, which should bring NOx down enough to pass. Of course, it's a closed loop kind of system, so that's easier said than done, and technically not smog-legal. So do check for vacuum leaks.
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Old 04-14-2012, 08:31 PM   #3
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There is no system on the engine that directly controls NOx. If the O2 sensor is operating within its range then the mixture is corrected automatically as you drive. The only device in the vehicle responsible for NOx reduction is the catalyst.
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Old 04-15-2012, 12:47 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johfraser View Post
There is no system on the engine that directly controls NOx. If the O2 sensor is operating within its range then the mixture is corrected automatically as you drive. The only device in the vehicle responsible for NOx reduction is the catalyst.
wellll....technically we have a HOST of "devices" that (*IF* within operating range) control
NOx "reduction"
Common causes of excessive NOx include:
1) faulty EGR system operation - EGR VALVE function and/leaks
2) lean air/fuel mixture - O2 sensor, FPR, injector delivery, incorrect pulse width, vacuum leaks
3) high temperature intake air - airbox thermostat failure, clogged filter,
clogged manifold water passage, restricted exhaust
4) overheated engine - T-Stat, fan clutch failure low coolant level, cavitating water-pump
5) excessive spark advance - stuck advance plate, faulty CPS signal, faulty knock
sensor signal, incorrect base setting

it's why you need to take a SYSTEMIC approach to diagnostics (because of the inter-
dependencies and "secondary effects" of adjusting parameters on the fly)
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Old 04-15-2012, 01:49 AM   #5
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How can I check if she has an egr? Should I run a tank of premium and injector cleaner before the test and burn it up, then put in fresh premium?

Took a.picture of the sparkplug closest to the radiator so you all have more of a clue how its running.

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Old 04-15-2012, 01:37 PM   #6
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http://forums.turbobricks.com/showth...hlight=billkaz

Went through the same thing last fall. I posted my thread as there is a lot of good stuff in there that should help you
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Old 04-15-2012, 01:47 PM   #7
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That's a shame there. You still have a good working catalytic converter. You can try servicing the EGR before replacing the cat converter.

Just a few years ago that would been a passing car in California. They just want your older cars off the road over there and be put into some plastic throwaway douchebagmobile. Damned hitler california legislators.
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Old 04-16-2012, 03:59 PM   #8
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Sounds like a cat to me (had the same issue last year). Pull your current cat and check the condition. When I did the cat was empty, guess I blew all the material out the exhaust at some point. I ordered a new cat from IPD and passed with flying colors (then I put the newly discovered straight pipe in to free up the exhaust.)
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Old 04-16-2012, 04:29 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andysbeta View Post
That's a shame there. You still have a good working catalytic converter. You can try servicing the EGR before replacing the cat converter.
Just a few years ago that would been a passing car in California. They just want your older cars off the road over there and be put into some plastic throwaway douchebagmobile. Damned hitler california legislators.
I REALLY don't think the Calinannystate realizes how much they lose
when they perpetuate STOOPID stuff like the "ever tightening boa
constrictor of regulations"...I left the Bay Area in the mid 1980's
because it was starting to get REALLY STUPID to own or drive a decent
automobile / motopsycho....
I *won't go back* not even to visit my Auntie.. (*ALL* of her kids got
"college" and left never to return mostly because of taxes and the attack
of the "regulators")...harrrumph....norte carolina is working "double extra secret
overtime" to catch up - the pukes.....
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Old 04-16-2012, 04:35 PM   #10
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Based on the VIR #s, THERE IS NO PROBLEM with your converter, in fact, going by these readings it is functioning as new

NOx failures are a function of excessive combustion temperatures, that's IT

The O2 measured at the tailpipe indicates that you have no air intake leak problems (too lean) and even if you did, HCs would go up as a result (misfires)

Computer "sees" too much air via the O2's signal), it'll force things rich, doesn't care where the lean condition is coming from, metered or unmetered, understand? All your numbers are good in that regard, A/F ratio wise.

ASSUMING your cooling system is in good order and you have no BASIC issues (which again, the numbers don't seem to indicate) the problem is and almost always is, EGR

I cannot tell you how many NOx failures I have repaired by simply cleaning the system

Just because the engine rolls when you open the valve, or even stalls still does not mean there is not a problem, and that problem 90% of the time is DIRT

Crud builds up over time and restricts the VOLUME of flow allowed by the EGR system. My Daughter's '91 Stanza failed NOx just a year ago, yet the EGR system passed (my) functional test.

SMOG guys don't actually do the "functional" test anymore because of Loaded Mode Testing (which as you have learned now measures for NOx at the tailpipe)

The emission label, the VIR printout or just your eye balls can tell you if the car is equipped with EGR and I'm pretty certain it is.

It's a little pain of a job, but remove all the plumbing and clean it, Berryman's "B-12" Chemtool and a coat hanger will be your friends with this.

I'll bet you a dollar, you pull the metal pipe that feeds the EGR gas back into the intake and the ID of that pipe will be at LEAST 1/3 smaller than what it should be clean.

Clean the entire EGR system, get the flow back up to where it should be, and those numbers will drop like Magic

Marshall

Last edited by MCSmith; 04-29-2014 at 11:56 AM..
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Old 04-16-2012, 04:38 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NM240 View Post
Sounds like a cat to me (had the same issue last year). Pull your current cat and check the condition. When I did the cat was empty, guess I blew all the material out the exhaust at some point. I ordered a new cat from IPD and passed with flying colors (then I put the newly discovered straight pipe in to free up the exhaust.)
His cat is functioning like a new one; just take a look at the CO2 numbers

Marshall
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Old 04-16-2012, 04:45 PM   #12
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And for what it's worth, if I sound like a "know it all" I've held an unlimited SMOG license in this great State of Kalifornia since 1987 and trouble shot NOx fails over the telephone

There is a RARE exception; if the vehicle was tested on a HOT day, and the tech was too lazy to set up the fan, then that MIGHT cause a borderline NOx fail

Possible, but not likely

Marshall
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Old 04-16-2012, 05:16 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johfraser View Post
There is no system on the engine that directly controls NOx. If the O2 sensor is operating within its range then the mixture is corrected automatically as you drive. The only device in the vehicle responsible for NOx reduction is the catalyst.
Absolutely incorrect and just plain bad information

The whole purpose for the existence of EGR valves is to control (reduce) Oxides of Nitrogen using metered dilution of the A/F mix in order to lower combustion temps

The cat (certain type cats) only/do help clean up a little of what's left (within the margins)

Here in the Bay Area MANY MANY cats are sold, unnecessarily, due to poor diagnostic skills. Just because a converter fresh out of the box is "hot" enough that it can "mask" the real problem with a vehicle, doesn't make it the way to go (or the correct diagnosis/fix)

Marshall

Last edited by MCSmith; 04-16-2012 at 05:22 PM..
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Old 04-16-2012, 05:56 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xypex982 View Post
So my girl's 240 wagon failed with its b230f. The volvo passed everything but the NO(PPM).

Her readings were

15mph@1759rpm
14.9% CO2
0.0 %O2
HC(PPM) 81M 37AVG 35Meas
CO % .52M.13AVG .14Meas
[B]NO(PPM) 554M 277AVG 665Meas

25mph@1778rpm
14.8% CO2
0.0 CO@
HC(PPM) 63Max 27AVG 8Meas
CO% .43Max .10AVG .04Meas
NO(PPM) 511Max 215AVG 625Meas


Since it is so close to passing and all other readings seem in order, what do you all suggest? I know with my 3000gt even engine oil weight makes a difference, so any tips to help me pass?

I have heard that a tank of premium before the test helps burn off the gunk, but should there be premium in the tank during the test itself? What sort of tune up items should be addressed other than spark plugs/rotor and basic servicing. I do know it has a little hesitation starting when cold but it always starts/runs, just idles a bit rough while cold.

Thanks for any and all help just trying to finally finish up this smog crap so it can get some legit tags.
I know the 1989 240 DL with an automatic ran EGR. Is her car an automatic? Not 100% on the straight shift model.

Fresh plugs NEVER hurt with a SMOG test, but the one in your pictures looks "OK"

Don't freak out and start throwing money at a SMOG fail based on anecdotal tales

Verify that your vehicle has an EGR and then clean the system as I suggested. It'll pass

Marshall

Last edited by MCSmith; 04-29-2014 at 11:58 AM..
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Old 04-17-2012, 08:48 PM   #15
xypex982
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Yes it is indeed an auto.

Thanks again for all the help

I used to have to deal with smogging a 1979 early FI 2l air cooler VW camper bus...
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Old 04-17-2012, 09:44 PM   #16
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Every time I failed NOX I would just put a $70 cat on there and pass with flying colors. Bandaid, maybe, but it was the cheapest and easiest solution. You only get one free retest. NOW cats have to be CA approved and cost $400...

I decided to buy a 1975 240 so I don't have to pass smog ever again.
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Old 04-18-2012, 12:01 PM   #17
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You people in Kalifornia put up with this sh!t!!

Yes; the Volvo has plugged up EGR if it is so equipped. If not; Kalifornia needs to suck it.

Small wonder so many people are moving away from there and those who are sane will not invest in that State.
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Old 04-18-2012, 01:12 PM   #18
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^ oh jeebus John, have you ever spent any time in LA? The first time I was there, by train and rolling into town in the am I thought it was an overcast and/or foggy day with limited visibility. I had been excited to get my first view of the area and was disappointed that I couldn't see much.
It was in fact a brilliantly sunny day with no clouds; it was all smog. And this was after years of improvement. Had it stayed as it was it would have been much worse.
Check these out.
http://www.kcet.org/updaily/socal_fo...tos-31321.html

First recorded picture of smog, 1943. Visibility 3 blocks.
http://www.aqmd.gov/news1/archives/h.../marchcov.html

google pics of la smog. LA is bad, but it's also bad in many places. I used to go bike riding in the Berkeley hills in the early am. I could see SF on the way out, could not see it as morning traffic started, on the way back.
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Old 04-18-2012, 01:41 PM   #19
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Yup..... LA is in a Soupbowl. Your friends in Government would do better to legislate that Mother Nature provide favorable winds to blow that ick out to sea then to fight it with ever tightening smog regulations for cars such as we see featured in this maintenance thread....... Yet we see that cars '75 and older are exempt....... Hmmm....... Of course cars that old are a pretty small percentage of what we see on the road.

This is yet another perfectly good reason to not live there! You sir; make your choices and live with them. I've done the same..... Rain today. Rain yesterday.
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Old 04-18-2012, 02:16 PM   #20
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NOX max values are going down on the test too. It used to be 700'ish PPM allowed and now it's down in the 500 PPM max range. I have only failed in the past for NOX.

NOX is lean, hot, bad EGR, or cat. I had a GF's Honda with a bad carb that was lean and it was sky high NOX.

Check for airleaks. Listen around with a length of hose stuck in your ear for airleaks. Check for a rubbed hole in the air intake hose by the strut tower. They rub thru there.

Always make sure to drive your car like a racecar to the smog station and leave it running and try to get right on the dyno to keep the cat hot.
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Old 04-29-2012, 03:45 PM   #21
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Check for an exhaust leak after the O2 sensor, but before the cat. When an exhaust leak forms, it not only blows out exhaust, it sucks in air on low pressure waves. This excess oxygen totally prevents the reduction end of the cat, and makes you fail for NOx, but it actually helps the oxidation end, so it will bring your HC down somewhat. The only thing is, when that is the case, it usually hurts more at low speed than at high. Still, it would be worth a look.

My girlfriend's Saab failed on NOx with everything else low, but NOx over 800. Found two exhaust leaks before the cat, just torqued the bolts down a bit and took it back in, and NOx dropped to under 30. But again, it was much worse on low speed.
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Old 05-17-2012, 05:40 PM   #22
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So I plan on finally addressing the EGR tomorrow and am looking for a detailed guide on how to do it.

So I find this http://www.matthewsvolvosite.com/for...hp?f=1&t=19549

Ok, better, and I quote from the Matthews site "Basically I followed the instructions here: http://volvospeed.com/Repair/egr.php"

sadly those instructions lead to no where :/ anyone have a detailed guide on how to disassemble whats necessary to get to the darn EGR?

http://volvospeed.com/volvo_repairs_...ation_egr.html
nvm found one for an 850, I think this may be of some help for me to stumble though I'll start on it tomorrow

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Old 05-17-2012, 05:58 PM   #23
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Where in SoCal are you?
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Old 05-17-2012, 06:11 PM   #24
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Inland Empire, Chino Hills to be specific.

Asked my dad to get a can of seafoam, this block is going to be all clouded up once I have her volvo, my 3000gt, and my moms 1992 Camry (in dire need of seafoam) all smoking.
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Old 05-17-2012, 06:19 PM   #25
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OK, if you were here in Dago I'd point you to a good exhaust guy for a cat should you need one. Never tried Seafoam but wondered about how well it works. I have a '70 Ford F250 that could stand a clean-out as well. I worry about it cleaning it out too well, and then requiring a rebuild afterwards due to "unclogging" the leaking seals
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