MS2 Sync Loss Durring Cranking

cjsafski · 06-25-2012, 02:58 PM

So after swapping in a new motor I can not get the car to start. I have narrowed it down to an issue with the megasquirt since I can start the car with the stock ecus. The car is originally a lh 2.4 car with a VR sensor and 60-2 wheel. I am using the stock harness and sensors for the megasquirt. After doing the swap I found the casing on the VR sensor wiring had decomposed and replaced it. Figured that was the problem but it still will not start with the MS. I tried messing with the VR pots on the MS but that had no effect on the problem. Here are some screenshots during cranking from TS if they help.

There seems to be extra missing teeth here. I thought maybe the flexplate got bent during the swap but it starts with the stock ecu fine. Also I tried reducing the airgap a little on the VR sensor but still got the same.

gross polluter · 06-25-2012, 03:05 PM

Sure you didn't bend the flexplate? Those tooth errors are pretty consistent.

cjsafski · 06-25-2012, 03:18 PM

I had already tried looking for large bends and couldn't see any. Also it starts with the stock ecu and idles which is what I find odd. Would the stock ecu be able to deal with a bent flexplate?

Dakar09 · 06-25-2012, 04:02 PM

Silly question, but what are you using for power for the MS box? If it's switched +12V, it will cut out during cranking. May not be related to the flex plates at all.

cjsafski · 06-25-2012, 04:19 PM

Using the original harness for the stock ecu. The car started and ran fine with megasquirt on the old motor so that is not the problem.

gross polluter · 06-25-2012, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dakar09

If it's switched +12V, it will cut out during cranking.

If that was the case then he wouldn't be able to capture a trigger log during cranking.

gsellstr · 06-25-2012, 05:45 PM

Found mine was a PITA to get to do ANYTHING one one VR sensor, swapped in a new Bougi brand sensor and a lot of the tooth errors and funkyness went away, allowing me to actually get it to run. Still gotta get that box back into the car....

cjsafski · 06-25-2012, 06:10 PM

I have a brand new sensor in it right now and it acts no different. Really starting to think I barely bent the flexplate enough when swapping in the motor for the MS to not read it properly. Just still find it odd that that the stock ecu can. I have almost everything for a T5 swap sitting here so maybe I should just swap the trans in and hope it reads.

gsellstr · 06-25-2012, 08:22 PM

Point I was getting at is there's variances in sensors, depending on source. Mine ran perfect on 2.4, but was a PITA on MS til I swapped in the different sensor. The one I took out was from FCP, plastic packaging with no name, had 15k on it. The one that went in was from a Bougi box. Actually found a slightly hotter signal from it on the scope than with the one I took out. Kenny mentioned having seen that before as well.

Not saying that's your issue, just sayin....

Perhaps pup the cover plate off the trans, grab your dial indicator and see what the runout is on the tone ring?

DNAsEqUeNcE · 06-25-2012, 10:58 PM

Give this a try:

http://brickems.com/brickrpm/

gross polluter · 06-26-2012, 02:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cjsafski

I had already tried looking for large bends and couldn't see any. Also it starts with the stock ecu and idles which is what I find odd. Would the stock ecu be able to deal with a bent flexplate?

Little bends, yes. The VR circuit on the 3.0 board can as well, provided the pots are set correctly. With both pots completely CCW, adjust the hysteresis clockwise one turn at a time and see if that helps.

My 2JZ crank trigger does the same thing unless I have 6-7 turns into the hysteresis pot.

DNAsEqUeNcE · 06-26-2012, 02:23 AM

which pot is the hyst pot?

gross polluter · 06-26-2012, 02:45 AM

cjsafski · 06-26-2012, 07:04 PM

Turning R52 clockwise only makes more teeth disappear until the ecu sees nothing.

cjsafski · 06-26-2012, 11:46 PM

After playing with the pots a bit more I could get it to where there was a consistent 10 teeth missing on the log. Gave that area of the flexplate a little love with the prybar through the inspection hole and the signal improved. Almost got it to start but the gap started to return all of the sudden. I guess the flexplate was tweaked enough to where it returned to the messed up position. The battery died and needs to charge overnight. If I cant get it to start tomorrow just going to just swap my T5 trans in and be done with this auto BS.

gross polluter · 06-27-2012, 02:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cjsafski

Turning R52 clockwise only makes more teeth disappear until the ecu sees nothing.

There's a point where too many turns of R52 will result in complete drop of the VR signal. Even weak signals shouldn't start dropping until 4-5 turns in. If you're dropping the signal right off the bat, there are other problems.

cjsafski · 06-27-2012, 02:19 PM

Prybar wins again. Seems it was the flexplate after all. The car is now running after giving the flexplate some love with the prybar through the inspection hole.

gross polluter · 06-27-2012, 02:48 PM

DNAsEqUeNcE · 06-27-2012, 04:36 PM

W00p w00p

06-25-2012, 02:58 PM	#1
cjsafski Board Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Orange County, Ca	MS2 Sync Loss Durring Cranking So after swapping in a new motor I can not get the car to start. I have narrowed it down to an issue with the megasquirt since I can start the car with the stock ecus. The car is originally a lh 2.4 car with a VR sensor and 60-2 wheel. I am using the stock harness and sensors for the megasquirt. After doing the swap I found the casing on the VR sensor wiring had decomposed and replaced it. Figured that was the problem but it still will not start with the MS. I tried messing with the VR pots on the MS but that had no effect on the problem. Here are some screenshots during cranking from TS if they help. There seems to be extra missing teeth here. I thought maybe the flexplate got bent during the swap but it starts with the stock ecu fine. Also I tried reducing the airgap a little on the VR sensor but still got the same. __________________ 1993 Volvo 940: b230ft with 16v, MS2, 57 Trim T3/T4, Ebay Intercooler , 3" Exhaust, Cut Springs 1996 Miata: JRSC m45 supercharger, Ebay Intercooler, MS2, Tein Flex 9/6, 15x8 6ULs

06-25-2012, 03:05 PM	#2
gross polluter They see me trollin' Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: San Diego, CA	Sure you didn't bend the flexplate? Those tooth errors are pretty consistent. __________________ '88 245 - 2JZGTE VVTi \| MS3X ECU, MS2 TCU \| GT3582R-HTA \| Staged simultaneous dual fuel \| 590whp 580ftlbs @ 22psi

06-25-2012, 04:02 PM	#4
Dakar09 The Blue Baastard Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Dedham, MA	Silly question, but what are you using for power for the MS box? If it's switched +12V, it will cut out during cranking. May not be related to the flex plates at all. __________________ Tony 1958 Volvo PV444 1983 245 Turbo - The Project - Targa Newfoundland entry - Sold http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=225396 2002 BMW M5 - Sold 2011 F150 FX4 Screw with Ecoboost V6 Past bricks - '95 855 manual, '98 V70 T5 Manual, '04 V70R 6-speed, '10 XC60 T6

06-25-2012, 05:45 PM	#7
gsellstr Vintage anti-ricer Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Somewhere in a northern California smog bank	Found mine was a PITA to get to do ANYTHING one one VR sensor, swapped in a new Bougi brand sensor and a lot of the tooth errors and funkyness went away, allowing me to actually get it to run. Still gotta get that box back into the car.... __________________ RIP Doug "Mr. Doug" Williams, 4/15/2009 74 144 B20 http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=224983 90 745Ti, AW71L, IPD bars/springs, Koni SA's, JVAB B230FT, Big Valved 531 head, IPD Turbo cam, GT2871R @ 18psi, TLAO chips, E85, NPR, 3.5" DP, 3" DP-back, MSD, TruTrac, Wilwood BBK If you need Superpro bushings PM me or check the current GB, running until 3/31/13 at http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?p=4493644).

06-27-2012, 02:48 PM	#18
gross polluter They see me trollin' Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: San Diego, CA	wewt

06-25-2012, 03:18 PM	#3
cjsafski Board Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Orange County, Ca	I had already tried looking for large bends and couldn't see any. Also it starts with the stock ecu and idles which is what I find odd. Would the stock ecu be able to deal with a bent flexplate?

06-25-2012, 04:19 PM	#5
cjsafski Board Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Orange County, Ca	Using the original harness for the stock ecu. The car started and ran fine with megasquirt on the old motor so that is not the problem.

06-25-2012, 06:10 PM	#8
cjsafski Board Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Orange County, Ca	I have a brand new sensor in it right now and it acts no different. Really starting to think I barely bent the flexplate enough when swapping in the motor for the MS to not read it properly. Just still find it odd that that the stock ecu can. I have almost everything for a T5 swap sitting here so maybe I should just swap the trans in and hope it reads.

06-25-2012, 08:22 PM	#9
gsellstr Vintage anti-ricer Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Somewhere in a northern California smog bank	Point I was getting at is there's variances in sensors, depending on source. Mine ran perfect on 2.4, but was a PITA on MS til I swapped in the different sensor. The one I took out was from FCP, plastic packaging with no name, had 15k on it. The one that went in was from a Bougi box. Actually found a slightly hotter signal from it on the scope than with the one I took out. Kenny mentioned having seen that before as well. Not saying that's your issue, just sayin.... Perhaps pup the cover plate off the trans, grab your dial indicator and see what the runout is on the tone ring?

06-26-2012, 02:23 AM	#12
DNAsEqUeNcE †500DollarSparkMap Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: San' Tonio'	which pot is the hyst pot?

06-26-2012, 02:45 AM	#13
gross polluter They see me trollin' Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: San Diego, CA	R52

06-26-2012, 07:04 PM	#14
cjsafski Board Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Orange County, Ca	Turning R52 clockwise only makes more teeth disappear until the ecu sees nothing.

06-26-2012, 11:46 PM	#15
cjsafski Board Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Orange County, Ca	After playing with the pots a bit more I could get it to where there was a consistent 10 teeth missing on the log. Gave that area of the flexplate a little love with the prybar through the inspection hole and the signal improved. Almost got it to start but the gap started to return all of the sudden. I guess the flexplate was tweaked enough to where it returned to the messed up position. The battery died and needs to charge overnight. If I cant get it to start tomorrow just going to just swap my T5 trans in and be done with this auto BS.

06-27-2012, 02:19 PM	#17
cjsafski Board Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Orange County, Ca	Prybar wins again. Seems it was the flexplate after all. The car is now running after giving the flexplate some love with the prybar through the inspection hole.

06-27-2012, 04:36 PM	#19
DNAsEqUeNcE †500DollarSparkMap Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: San' Tonio'	W00p w00p

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