Zero Oil Pressue Q

[7mgtesup]

Originally Posted by Janspeed

- is the oilpressure warninglight/switch actually working...? did you actually measure the oilpressure?
- would you still see some pressure if the oilpressure relief valve in the block is stuck open?
- how much is the wear'ntear on the cover of the pumpgears? If it's excessive the pressure will leak away past the gears inside the pump. It will also make bleeding more difficult.

just throwing some suggestions at the problem.

He has no oil even flowing out of the oil filter housing when spinning the engine over. I vote for the dive shaft on the pump is either broken or the gear is spinning on the shaft. Or he is turning the pump the wrong way and blowing bubbles in his sump.

[84.242]

Originally Posted by smokeyfan1000

Or male tang & female slot.(makes it easier to remember for most people)

When I am disassembling an unfamiliar something for the 1st/never done it before time/ removing lots of parts to access the assembly, I find that taking pics before & as I disassemble it helps a bunch with reassembly.

Especially if gonna be a few days/weeks before I return to re assemble it.Digital cameras are a huge help there.

Keep at it, and keep us posted, and we'll continue to help!

Thank you all!

I've got a decent collection of photos, as well as another spare block on a stand to get a 3D/not-on-my-back-looking-up idea of what is going on. And the pan/pump was off the car for about a week or two, with no oil in it for a few weeks prior to that, I think that might be playing a role in the issues I'm having getting it all primed again.

Originally Posted by gsellstr

Sounds like the drive setup is working. The drive gear is easily removed with the aux. shaft in place, usually has to go in once the shaft is in from my experience anyway. Grab some needlenose pliers and twist as you pull up, it should slide right out.

Something that just occurred to me, thinking way back 10 years or so. Any chance you've got an oil cooler of some sort? I've heard of a couple guys who have swapped cooler lines around on the sandwich plate by mistake and that has caused oil to not flow, since it was being blocked by the cooler t-stat. Try spinning the aux shaft/oil pump with the oil filter removed perhaps?

Thanks for the tip. Up through the breather box casting? Where on the shaft should I look for wear/failure (assuming it would not be obvious)?

I do, but it is not installed in the car. I have spun the shaft with approx. 4qts in the pan and filter/pressure sender off the block. Nothing comes out either hole. I stumbled on to a similar thread as that one, another where an improperly sized oil filter blocked flow (so I bought an OEM Volvo filter to replace the Mahle)...I think I've read just about every thread on this site with the words "oil" or "pressure" or "pump"...

Originally Posted by Janspeed

- is the oilpressure warninglight/switch actually working...? did you actually measure the oilpressure?
- would you still see some pressure if the oilpressure relief valve in the block is stuck open?
- how much is the wear'ntear on the cover of the pumpgears? If it's excessive the pressure will leak away past the gears inside the pump. It will also make bleeding more difficult.

just throwing some suggestions at the problem.

I don't think the sender/dash light actually works, light doesn't come on/go off when wire is grounded to block. I also do not have any appropriate adaptors to hook up a mech oil pressure gauge to this block, and have not found anything as to the best way to do that on this block. I've been removing the filter and pressure sender and seeing if anything comes out. I would expect to see something coming out of the pump even if the relief valve in the pump (not one in this block to the best of my knowledge) were removed entirely. Pump gears look okay - no bad wear on the gear teeth themselves, and moderate wear on the pump housing where the gear that is not driven meets up. It had oil pressure before it was all taken apart and did run (albeit poorly. very very poorly.).

[84.242]

Originally Posted by 7mgtesup

He has no oil even flowing out of the oil filter housing when spinning the engine over. I vote for the dive shaft on the pump is either broken or the gear is spinning on the shaft. Or he is turning the pump the wrong way and blowing bubbles in his sump.

Counter-clockwise does indeed give me bubbles... Gear isn't spinning on the shaft, and I can hear the pump slurp-slurp on the Vasoline inside when I grab the aux pulley with my hand and turn when the pump is bolted to the block. I can't hear anything over the noise either my air ratchet or drill make unfortunately.

[gsellstr]

Something definitely ain't right. If you're getting oil pump drive (bubbles going backwards, noise of it with the vaseline either way), then it should be moving oil. No chance you're dumping oil out somewhere that you're not seeing are you? Something like the plug in the back of the block, something stupid simple but completely not obvious?

If that's not happening, you've gotta have either no relief spring or check ball allowing everything to bypass or something plugging a passage somewhere. Sounds like it's definitely time to pull the pump out and check it over. From there run some air thru the block and see if you've got flow thru the passages.

As for wear on the gear, it'll be obvious if the shaft is worn or the drive tang is snapped off.

[TrickMick]

take the pump OFF THE BLOCK and stick it in a bucket of oil....
drive the gears w/yer drill motor...
get the SIPHON TUBE COMPLTELY COVERED IN THE BUCKET / CAN
IT *MUST* pump in this set-up
unless you have a cracked housing / plugged port / sheared geardrive
INSIDE the housing...you say you have a SPARE BLOCK....if there is
a pump on that block yank it and run the "bucket test" just to re-
assure yourself that you're "doing it right"...
we're down to a dead pump at this point(post "bucket test FAIL")...

[smokeyfan1000]

Is he turning the pump in the correct direction &pickup submerged ?

[mtd240]

[HonestJhon]

does that reinforcement ring from IPD fit the b23/b230 oil pumps? IPD's fitment guide says no.

same with their high pressure spring...

and i think even if the relief spring was missing, i think that there would be SOME oil flowing out of the filter

[TrickMick]

let's find out if the pump works *at all* FIRST...then we can sort the rest....

went to the IPD instructions and you['re correct...*B20* ...hmmmm....
all the Volvo's I "race prepped" were 1.8 - 2.0 l Carburetted iterations....
let's get the pump working....

[TrickMick]

WHY ME??
first I can't get the post to "go thru" and I re-type..
now it's a TWOFER...dammit....

[gsellstr]

Someone, perhaps JohnV, possibly someone else, can't remember now was telling me that the ring also works on the 21/23/230 stuff. Dang memory sucks!

If the check ball is missing or the spring isn't holding it closed, at that rpm that he's turning it, the oil would just recirc thru the bypass rather than even making much if any into the engine.

[TrickMick]

Originally Posted by gsellstr

Someone, perhaps JohnV, possibly someone else, can't remember now was telling me that the ring also works on the 21/23/230 stuff. Dang memory sucks!

If the check ball is missing or the spring isn't holding it closed, at that rpm that he's turning it, the oil would just recirc thru the bypass rather than even making much if any into the engine.

I *REALLY* want to have the pump submerged in a bucket
AND DRIVEN BY A HIGH SPEED DRILL MOTOR...DOING IT IN THE CAR
does NOT test the pump well due to "other things that can go bad'!

[gsellstr]

I agree Mick, that's where he's at at this point I think.

[saq]

The "flame trap" used here is the oil separator box mounted on the engine block, right?

[HonestJhon]

any update on this?

[TrickMick]

*HUGE* number of posts in assistance...

WHAT IS THE RESULT???

[TrickMick]

***** "84.242" *****

any update on the problem child???

enquiring minds want to know....

[Janspeed]

bump up
i am curious!

[smokeyfan1000]

Must be time to use our TB Crystal Ball?

[TrickMick]

once AGAIN the rest of us would like to know the resolution of your problem...

fair is fair...a LOT of effort went into your particular problem because it was / is
UNIQUE.....letting the "crew" know what you found is PART of the help process

sooo.....??????????????

[7mgtesup]

Originally Posted by TrickMick

once AGAIN the rest of us would like to know the resolution of your problem...

fair is fair...a LOT of effort went into your particular problem because it was / is
UNIQUE.....letting the "crew" know what you found is PART of the help process

sooo.....??????????????

Maybe it was somethng so silly that he is to embarrassed to report back?

[TrickMick]

Originally Posted by 7mgtesup

Maybe it was somethng so silly that he is to embarrassed to report back?

could be..but then again- there are LOTS of us who've pooched something
and had to stand behind the mistake...failure is the GREATEST LEARNING
TOOL...if you can't fail and learn from it you haven't really been at the
edge (or wits end which ever comes first! ) ....

[linuxman51]

you haven't worked on cars if you haven't done thousands of embarrassingly stupid things.. like tear an engine down because the thermostat you just replaced was bad.

[dbarton]

Well if no one else has anything useful, I'll chime in on the below comment.
Yes, the reinforcing ring fits. I used it on my B23FT stroker build many years ago. It was very tight though and needed some taps with a hammer. Not sure if it'll ever come back off.
Dave B

Originally Posted by HonestJhon

does that reinforcement ring from IPD fit the b23/b230 oil pumps? IPD's fitment guide says no.

[84.242]

Sorry I've been gone, work got in the way as it tends to do. If only I knew what a huge disappointment I was. Didn't help having problems with my Volvo that runs, took a bit of a priority over the charming but ultimately useless 240. 27,000 mile B5254T4 with a leaking breather box (This feels weird admitting I have an F/AWD Volvo)

Originally Posted by TrickMick

I *REALLY* want to have the pump submerged in a bucket
AND DRIVEN BY A HIGH SPEED DRILL MOTOR...DOING IT IN THE CAR
does NOT test the pump well due to "other things that can go bad'!

Done - primed right up, and after installing it back in the car (X3), holding a cup of oil underneath while a buddy turned an air ratchet...it started pumping immediately.

Should have done that weeks ago.

I don't know why I thought that would be difficult.

Originally Posted by saq

The "flame trap" used here is the oil separator box mounted on the engine block, right?

Yes. I know, the suspense was killing you. But seriously, I thank everyone for the help.

Originally Posted by TrickMick

once AGAIN the rest of us would like to know the resolution of your problem...

fair is fair...a LOT of effort went into your particular problem because it was / is
UNIQUE.....letting the "crew" know what you found is PART of the help process

sooo.....??????????????

Again, sorry for the absence. I wish I knew exactly what happened. Spent a good 20 hours on the car Labor Day weekend, with a strong determination to drive the thing, and on the third R&R of the pump, everything worked fine.
Because of the still-Vasoline packed pump a few R&Rs ago, and the careful reinstallation of the breather box on the final try, I am betting the driveshaft popped up just enough to still be engaged with the aux shaft (it always spun), but not "in" enough to actually drive the pump. Also did not reinstall the oil trap drain tube clamp on the oil pump - that is such a pain in the ass to thread a bolt through I gave up on the nth try.
Aux shaft never got more difficult to turn, and still and a sort of "dead" spot in the rotation, so I can't really say for certain it was ever disengaged/engaged. Valve clatter is gone, plenty of oil sloshing about the head, and no leaks. Put the passenger seat in (driver's was collapsed) and took it for a joyous 25 laps of the barn.

Now I have real car problems, like a rough idle! And rust, but patch panels in the mail! Extra 93 B230FT block just in case things go north. And of course a 90+ manifold with a TD04-13, green top injectors, SAAB 9000 IC, and plenty of other things from junkyards that supposedly do something. I remain skeptical, looks like a bunch of junk.

Originally Posted by dbarton

Well if no one else has anything useful, I'll chime in on the below comment.
Yes, the reinforcing ring fits. I used it on my B23FT stroker build many years ago. It was very tight though and needed some taps with a hammer. Not sure if it'll ever come back off.
Dave B

Good to know.