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Old 09-18-2020, 12:34 AM   #51
G-Tech 940
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Originally Posted by c1800 View Post
Scothbrite? no, no, no. The internet is littered with stories where scotchbrite was used. It contains aluminum oxide particles the spell death to an engine.
WELL ****. Looks like I just destroyed the engine if the internet is to be believed....

Edit: Yup it really looks like I screwed up here. I used it on the head and the block. FML.

Last edited by G-Tech 940; 09-18-2020 at 12:52 AM..
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Old 09-18-2020, 01:16 AM   #52
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It's not over unless you rotated the engine with the aluminum oxide particles on it. The internet also says there's no reason you can't clean it off. Unfortunately, you'll have to remove the oil pan to make sure all of it is gone. I don't know how that would work with the head off the block. You might be able to get away with just cleaning the surfaces and bores if you dump some oil through the system before filling.
Do a web search and look at a few posts. I can't suggest anything because I haven't had to deal with this yet, but some suggest that the main problem with using scotchbrite and similar abrasives is lack of cleaning afterwards. Maybe try pulling as much off as you can with a straw duct taped to a shop vac before doing anything like dabbing or wiping. Both on the surfaces and in the ports. But you should read as many articles and forum posts on cleaning off scotchbrite as you can first, since it's a bit of a delicate situation now.
The aluminum oxide can embed in aluminum, and in the head surface it probably already has. If you haven't been to a machine shop yet for the the head, this would be a good time. Just warn them that you scotchbrited it before they go to work on it. I hope you didn't scrub the piston crowns with the stuff. If you didn't, and you get the rest of it off, you might be fine.
I would call this an example of why you need to read extensively about anything you're going to scrape or spray on internal machine surfaces before you do it, but this is a bad example. Too many people will tell you with a straight face that scotchbrite is a good solution.
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Last edited by iamrolling; 09-18-2020 at 05:03 AM..
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Old 09-18-2020, 09:25 AM   #53
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I'm confused, I am looking more into it and I see that red 3M pads that were recommended, also apparently have aluminum oxide in them.

3M Pad website

This basically seems like I am f***ing toast. I am reading articles about people who are suggesting nitric acid....dumping gallons of kerosene or gasoline in the engine and not having it work.... Here I was hoping last night that I would just be able to swab the oil passages with Q-Tips and brake cleaner.. I guess that won't work.

I will be bringing my head to a head shop that I found. They will be cleaning the head in addition to resurfacing. So at least that part will be taken care of.

For the block, the Head guy recommended I use sandpaper and a wood block...I assume this time after I plug the oil passages, which I didn't do when using scotchbrite. He said I will need to 'drop the pan to flush the water jackets'.

I will need to figure out how to drop the pan. Preferably without the head attached, but I don't know how possible that is. Don't I need to lift the engine to drop the subframe + oil pan?

Is now a good time to mention that I also used scotchbrite to clean the aux and crank shafts? Just briefly, and I cleaned those shafts off with compressed air.


I swear that after I end up basically doing a ENGINE REBUILD the coolant leak better not still be there.

I bought a 0km B230F last week, coincidentally. I didn't think I might actually need it so soon...


It's going to be a while until I can get the head back on the block. Is the block going to rust over? How do I prevent that while also not further screwing up the block?

Last edited by G-Tech 940; 09-18-2020 at 11:47 AM..
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Old 09-18-2020, 11:49 AM   #54
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I only see the one forum post from a guy who used scotch-brite and had a later engine failure. While it's worrying, one failure does not an example make... I wouldn't panic just yet.

- You didn't use an abrasive disc on a power tool like the GM bulletin warns about.
- You used them wet with brake cleaner which will help pick up any stray particles.
- You can easily wash down exposed surfaces and passages at this point to further collect particles.
- You're gonna change the oil anyway to get rid of any solvents or crap that fell down the passages. If especially worried you can do it twice - once before and once after first run... Oil filter catches down to 30 microns or so which is the expected size of 600 grit green scotch-brite.
- 2manyturbos, who does this for a living, routinely uses the more aggressive red scotch-brite and has not reported problems.

I would wait for his expert opinion, of course, but seems like you'll most likely be OK...

Quote:
It's going to be a while until I can get the head back on the block. Is the block going to rust over? How do I prevent that while also not further screwing up the block?
A layer of oil or light grease will keep moisture out. Preferably something not super thin so it stays on there. Wash off before installing.
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Old 09-18-2020, 01:43 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Tech 940 View Post
I'm confused, I am looking more into it and I see that red 3M pads that were recommended, also apparently have aluminum oxide in them.

3M Pad website

This basically seems like I am f***ing toast. I am reading articles about people who are suggesting nitric acid....dumping gallons of kerosene or gasoline in the engine and not having it work.... Here I was hoping last night that I would just be able to swab the oil passages with Q-Tips and brake cleaner.. I guess that won't work.

I will be bringing my head to a head shop that I found. They will be cleaning the head in addition to resurfacing. So at least that part will be taken care of.

For the block, the Head guy recommended I use sandpaper and a wood block...I assume this time after I plug the oil passages, which I didn't do when using scotchbrite. He said I will need to 'drop the pan to flush the water jackets'.

I will need to figure out how to drop the pan. Preferably without the head attached, but I don't know how possible that is. Don't I need to lift the engine to drop the subframe + oil pan?

Is now a good time to mention that I also used scotchbrite to clean the aux and crank shafts? Just briefly, and I cleaned those shafts off with compressed air.


I swear that after I end up basically doing a ENGINE REBUILD the coolant leak better not still be there.

I bought a 0km B230F last week, coincidentally. I didn't think I might actually need it so soon...


It's going to be a while until I can get the head back on the block. Is the block going to rust over? How do I prevent that while also not further screwing up the block?

Don't worry about some moron posting on the internet. I have been using red scotch brite pads to clean engine parts for the past 25 years. I wouldn't want to fill the crank case with scotch brite pads and run the engine. That would be my only concern. The crank shaft shop in Albany used a belt to polish the crank shaft journals after a crank grind that was basically a long strip of scotch brite with a backing material. Don't overthink this. Any time you pull out a piece of emery cloth, sand paper, etc you are using aluminum oxide.

You are so hosed. Even the cylinder hones used to finish off a re-bore job for new pistons contain aluminum oxide. Better throw all the engines in the world into the scrap pile. They were ruined before they were even assembled.

https://regismanufacturing.com/alumi...tone-sn-300ax/

BTW, I just run over the block surface with a shop vac to clean up any carbon, rust and gasket particles that cleaning knocks loose. As said above, you are going to change your oil again once you run the engine. The filter picks up anything you missed or couldn't get to.

Last edited by 2manyturbos; 09-18-2020 at 01:56 PM..
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Old 09-18-2020, 02:40 PM   #56
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Once this is all put back together and it starts and runs, I am going to be very relieved. Until then, I definitely feel that I have gotten in way over my head trying to fix a coolant leak. I am the kind of person that needs to learn by doing, and this is clearly the first time I have done anything like this. Next time will be easier.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2manyturbos View Post
Don't worry about some moron posting on the internet. I have been using red scotch brite pads to clean engine parts for the past 25 years. I wouldn't want to fill the crank case with scotch brite pads and run the engine. That would be my only concern. The crank shaft shop in Albany used a belt to polish the crank shaft journals after a crank grind that was basically a long strip of scotch brite with a backing material. Don't overthink this. Any time you pull out a piece of emery cloth, sand paper, etc you are using aluminum oxide.

BTW, I just run over the block surface with a shop vac to clean up any carbon, rust and gasket particles that cleaning knocks loose. As said above, you are going to change your oil again once you run the engine. The filter picks up anything you missed or couldn't get to.
I know that you are very experienced and I trust your knowledge of these engines and these procedures more than I trust the random guys on other, non-Volvo forums. It's just that I found several postings with anecdotes about engines ruined by the aluminum oxide so it definitely caused me some concern. If you don't think it is bad at all then that is very relieving, and I believe it. I don't know enough about it myself to form my own opinion.

My apologies for being redundant, but I really want to make sure I understand this process;

-don't need to drop oil pan
-vacuum top of block
-wipe top of block down with some solvent and then cover with a thin layer of oil to prevent rust while head is at the shop.
-assemble engine and run with fresh oil for only a very short time. (I have read anywhere between 15 minutes and 100 miles)
-change oil, then change again after another 100-200 miles.

-should I attempt to swab any oil passages with solvent and Q-tip or is that just a dumb idea? Is non-chlorinated brake cleaner okay (as a solvent for this job) when sprayed on a paper towel, or should I go buy carb/injector cleaner?

I thank you all very much for all your help, I really couldn't do this without it!
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Old 09-18-2020, 03:20 PM   #57
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You summed it up quite well. I wouldn't worry about using a Q-tip to clean the passages. Brake cleaner is fine. It pretty much evaporates leaving nothing behind. You are doing fine. It's best to ask questions ahead of time. Don't leave things to chance. You are being meticulous, the same way I work on these engines and basically, anything I touch. Do it right, do it once. The oil passages that are feeding the top end can be cleaned with paper towel to soak up oil and residue, then, spray some solvent on them and do the same. Wick any suspect material out of them. I use engine cleaning solvent for all of this. It may not be readily available where you are at. The same solvent that goes in a parts cleaning solvent tank. It is non-flamable, therefore, you can safely vacuum it up with your shop vacuum. That's how I clean out all the head bolt holes and the oil passages. I just use a trigger pump spray bottle to spray the solvent.
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Old 09-23-2020, 03:38 PM   #58
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Got my head back from the shop. They only took .005" off but I needed the head cleaned anyways after using the scotchbrite so the $95 CAD was worth it to me. They also offered to vacuum test the valves but I didn't really have the extra $90 to spare, so I opted for just the resurfacing and washing.

I should have removed the valve hushers before the wash though, as when I removed them there were some rubber bits left. I cleaned them the best I could.

I will install the head onto the block, then put the camshaft in, using the existing caps and shims, but no valve hushers. Then I will re-do the shims. Then I will remove the camshaft, install the valve hushers, re-install the camshaft, and then put everything else back together. (I know some people don't use hushers, but I have 2 sets of new ones so I figured I might as well.)

I finally got the block heater out. I had a bit of help, but between a chisel and a pair of vice grips we were able to knock and wiggle it out. I cleaned the hole with a razor as there was some rubber bits. I covered the surface of that hole in oil so it wouldnt rust. I'll clean the oil off before installing the frost plug tomorrow. It's a 40mm cup style plug. I'll be using dry ice to shrink it before installing, and Permatex aviation gasket to help seal it.
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Old 09-23-2020, 04:19 PM   #59
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Five thousandths is pretty close to the warp limit for that head, so you bought yourself a lot more time before you have to do this again.
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Old 09-24-2020, 01:16 PM   #60
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Well, this new frost plug isn't going in.

I've spent $50 on two batches of dry ice so far.

I've cleaned the plug hole very well using a razor and a bit of sandpaper.

I've heated the plug hole with a blowtorch.

It certainly isn't "sliding in" as a previous tb post mentioned. It's not even smacking in with a socket and hammer. It's a 40mm plug that I found among a pile of parts that I bought from a Volvo mechanic. It is not an OE plug but it was filed under the OE part number. It's the cup style.


So, given that I can't get the damn thing in, I'm resorting to buying a new block heater that I will never use. I will try to get a Dorman rubber expansion plug first, as they're about 1/5 the price.
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Old 09-24-2020, 03:33 PM   #61
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What about buying an OEM plug from the Volvo parts dept. at your closest Volvo dealer?
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Old 09-24-2020, 04:10 PM   #62
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What about buying an OEM plug from the Volvo parts dept. at your closest Volvo dealer?
Unfortunately I am past that point now.

The parts that I bought off of the old retired mechanic were very well sorted. The guy was very meticulous in his notes. The envelope that stored the plug listed the plug diameter, the hole diameter, the B230 application, part cost, various part numbers, as well as the date that specific plug was purchased. I have reason to believe the plug should work, it's probably just me not being able to do something simple.

Buying the block heater is the easy way out. I could not even find the universal rubber Dorman plug nearby (part 570-009) so went with the block heater. $57 shipped to my door (Volvo is 25 mins each way, with no guarantee that it will fit any easier than the plug I have. Plus I would need to buy more dry ice)
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Old 09-30-2020, 12:00 PM   #63
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Put the new block heater in.

Broke the tightening screw while installing it.

****.

At least the piece didn't fall down and I was able to get it out.
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Old 10-10-2020, 05:35 PM   #64
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Okay, lots to update.

I ordered the correct freeze plug from Volvo and wouldn't you know, it went in really nicely with some aviation gasket. I couldn't even tell a difference when holding it next to the aftermarket one that I had purchased from the old Volvo mechanic. It was such a relief to see it go in though!

I finally got motivated enough to put everything back together. I'm thankful that I have these tools although it seemed like I could have installed the cam without them lol.




Swapped the cam gear for an adjustable STS gear.



I took the time to add the Yoshifab phenolic intake manifold spacers (no pic yet).

Added the freshly painted valve cover.



I also swapped the alternator/AC bracket with one that I painted black (no pic yet)

While I was at it, I swapped in a 100A Denso that I found on a junkyard 940.

Swapped the belts, I didn't re-belt the AC compressor as it doesn't work right now anyways.


So, having done all of that, I went to start the car.

First, I removed the fuel pump/injector fuse and I removed power to the ignition coil. I then cranked the engine in 10 second bursts for about 25 seconds total, until the oil pressure light went out while cranking.

Then I re-installed the fuse and hooked up the ignition coil. The engine never fires. I can hear the fuel pump working.

I had enough for the day so I left it to come do a bit of internet research on it before tackling it tomorrow.

My best educated guess is that I re-installed the distributor rotated 180° the wrong way. Does that sound like a reasonable assumption?
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Old 10-10-2020, 05:46 PM   #65
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In the picture above the timing belt is loose as a goose. You did tension the belt, correct? Theoretically, you can't install the distributor 180 degrees out of time. The slotted drive is offset to prevent you from doing that. You're correct, those cam installation tools are totally unnecessary.
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Old 10-10-2020, 05:53 PM   #66
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In the picture above the timing belt is loose as a goose. You did tension the belt, correct? Theoretically, you can't install the distributor 180 degrees out of time. The slotted drive is offset to prevent you from doing that. You're correct, those cam installation tools are totally unnecessary.
I saw that in the photo as well. I am 99% sure I did tension it but it is something that I wanted to check tomorrow.

I've probably cranked it for about another 30 seconds in 10 second bursts after putting the fuel fuse back in and hooking up the coil. I did make sure to re-wire the plugs correctly, from left to right on the distributor I did 4-3-1-2.
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Old 10-11-2020, 03:53 AM   #67
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You didn't damage any wires or terminals moving stuff around, right? All the connectors are fully seated? Clamps on intake hoses are tight?

Valve cover looks beautiful, by the way.
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Old 10-11-2020, 03:04 PM   #68
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It works!

I was thinking it over last night and I was pretty sure that I had not connected the EFI cable that goes from the ignition coil to the distributor.

Turns out that was it! The car fired right up. I ran it for 10 mins and then shut it off. Later on I drove it the 10 mins home.

I've lost access to the garage for a week or so as it's being insulated. I will not be driving the car much until I can take it in and change the oil. Just to make sure it gets rid of any scotchbrite that I didn't clean up.



Thank you everyone for all your advice and help!
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Old 10-11-2020, 03:46 PM   #69
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Cool.
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Old 10-11-2020, 09:12 PM   #70
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Great work. And that is one nice looking engine bay.
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