• Hello Guest, welcome to the initial stages of our new platform!
    You can find some additional information about where we are in the process of migrating the board and setting up our new software here

    Thank you for being a part of our community!

240 How bad did I screw myself?

I had TEM Performance in Napa do the block and head separately six months apart. A B20 head too, no one could have done a better job. I screwed the rings up with the oil, there are concentric rings worn into the freshly honed cylinder walls. Hopefully not the ringlands too...but I wouldn't be shocked.

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...=a3470ebfc2b4ca80b3b5591dde420a22&oe=5B3FB5DD

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...=ab919c6497672d535a8a7271332bec96&oe=5B0410D4

The pistons seem to rise and fall the same distance, though I haven't measured the TDC distance below deck with any accuracy.
 
Update: guides pressed into block to align the head were missing, head probably got shifted around. Brb kicking myself
 
smncutler said:
I had TEM Performance in Napa do the block and head separately six months apart. A B20 head too, no one could have done a better job. I screwed the rings up with the oil, there are concentric rings worn into the freshly honed cylinder walls. Hopefully not the ringlands too...but I wouldn't be shocked.

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...=a3470ebfc2b4ca80b3b5591dde420a22&oe=5B3FB5DD

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...=ab919c6497672d535a8a7271332bec96&oe=5B0410D4

The pistons seem to rise and fall the same distance, though I haven't measured the TDC distance below deck with any accuracy.
Click to expand...

Hey, whatcher name? I feel stupid addressing people by made up names..
Can you do me a favor and clarify some points?

You said up there ^ "I had TEM Performance in Napa do the block "

What exactly do you mean by "do"?

Was the block bored to some oversize? Volvo's 1st over is some dumb 0,3mm aka .012"
Was it?
 
Hey I'm Simon, the broke dumbass college student living at home in Sonoma. TEM polished the crank, reconditioned rods, honed cylinders, new rings and bearings, and five thou off the top.
 
smncutler said:
Hey I'm Simon, the broke dumbass college student living at home in Sonoma. TEM polished the crank, reconditioned rods, honed cylinders, new rings and bearings, and five thou off the top.
Click to expand...

OK that's what it looked like but best not to assume..The bores are worn but that should be obvious, thats what the marks at the top tell you... Rods almost certainly not bent, Not B23 rods...B23 --and B21, same part--are insanely overbuilt...

Now to surface the block--and good move you did----they had to remove the dowels..
Bare-bum spankie time that they didn't bang 'em back in...they should have...and a smaller bare-bum spankie that you din't catch the error...
OK so to be sure, have you whipped the head off yet?
 
Yeah I took it off today, new pics. I'm wondering if the wear marks indicate that the rings got chewed to fawk. Maybe my total lack of compression was caused by head gasket being off? I mean the near hydrolock didn't help but I may as well get the alignment sleeves and see if it runs, hey?
 
Last edited:
smncutler said:
Yeah I took it off today, new pics. I'm wondering if the wear marks indicate that the rings got chewed to fawk. Maybe my total lack of compression was caused by head gasket being off? I mean the near hydrolock didn't help but I may as well get the alignment sleeves and see if it runs, hey?
Click to expand...


No those are ordinary wear marks that have been honed over ..
I just talked to a friend down there who's doing some ITB tuning on his Bavarian Maggot Wagon and he did say that machine shop is good... now it is a little blunder about not replacing the dowls after surfacing ...but that's small potatoes to whats going on here.

So the marks are normal---for a very hi-mileage engine...Volvo bores DO in fact wear pretty shockingly...

Now I hain't gonna speculate any more cause I don't know the back and forth between you and the shop, ie what you asked them to do, what you told them to do, what they told you ya oughtter do, what you expected...

So I can ask some "leading questions" if its OK wif ya?
Do you have any $16 electronic calipers?
(You should if you're gonna fawk with cars)

Do you have a set of $6 Feeler Gauges ?

You say you're broke ass college student.. They teach you to read these days in college?

Really? Then I'm wondering where you Haynes Service manual is?
 
Yeah, I have those, and a Bentley manual. I have a pretty decent set of tools as well, no harbor freight crap.
(Yes, I have a torque wrench)

I've read the manual cover to cover a few times - I'm not an expert but I have a good feel for mechanical things. I'm a United Bicycle Institute certified bike mechanic, I've heard of the metric system, all that.
I measured the depth below deck of the #1 piston at TDC, it was hard to get a good reading but what it read quick and dirty was only a few thou
 
smncutler said:
Yeah, I have those, and a Bentley manual. I have a pretty decent set of tools as well, no harbor freight crap.
(Yes, I have a torque wrench)

I've read the manual cover to cover a few times - I'm not an expert but I have a good feel for mechanical things. I'm a United Bicycle Institute certified bike mechanic, I've heard of the metric system, all that.
I measured the depth below deck of the #1 piston at TDC, it was hard to get a good reading but what it read quick and dirty was only a few thou
Click to expand...

You sure you have a B23 and not a B230?
 
I have no idea!


Good lord yes it's a 1983 M46-spec B23F with stock flat top pistons, 13 mm rods, forged crank, stamped V belt pulleys, B21/B23 oil separator, white cap distributor, higher-friction bearings, 398 BCP head and a host of other things that are more common on or exclusive to the B23.

Sorry JV I'm not trying to be a dick but I do (kinda sorta) know my stuff. Were you testing me? :)

Upgrades to the engine include total rebuild, VX cam, chrysler ignition box #1346105 for moar advance, stiffy oil pump spring and pump shaft reinforcing collar, the usual shiny blue billet iPd stuff, and five thousandths taken off the top of the block. Head skimmed too. It's like a thou and a half from being interference!
 
Last edited:
smncutler said:
I have no idea!


Good lord yes it's a 1983 M46-spec B23F with stock flat top pistons, 13 mm rods, forged crank, stamped V belt pulleys, B21/B23 oil separator, white cap distributor, higher-friction bearings, 398 BCP head and a host of other things that are more common on or exclusive to the B23.

Sorry JV I'm not trying to be a dick but I do (kinda sorta) know my stuff. Were you testing me? :)

Upgrades to the engine include total rebuild, VX cam, chrysler ignition box #1346105 for moar advance, stiffy oil pump spring and pump shaft reinforcing collar, the usual shiny blue billet iPd stuff, and five thousandths taken off the top of the block. Head skimmed too. It's about a thou and a half from being interference!
Click to expand...

No I don't test people..That's dumb.. I double check because the vast majotity of people make all kinds of errors...and that creates uncertainty about things...

Just for a convenient example of why I ask and try and clarify just above you said you have a b23 and "13mm rods".
B21 and B23 rods are called M rods, and are 145mm c-c with a 54mm rod journal...24mm pin and are 29.75mm wide


The rods commonly called "13mm rods" are wimpy reedy things that came from approx Aug 89 and later B230s...They're 152mm c-c, have 23mm pins and sit on a 49mm journal--and are about 24.8mm wide.

Something is amiss somewhere..

The screwy thing is the fact that B21 and B23 with their stock pistons are very typically somewhere between 018" to 027" down the bore while B230 are zero deck or damn close to it...

So IF the machine shop kissed the block just about .005...we'd expect to see pistons down the bore a good bit..

Something is amiss...

Which I may gently point out is one of the reasons we presume you're here.
(cough) somebody.....somehow...thought it a good idea to poor oil down into the cylinders..
giphy.gif
(cough)

It doesn't hurt to ask extremely basic questions so they are eliminated..


Oh and you are not 005 from interference, only on TB...not in the real world, not unless you have milled the head over 2mm and have lift over 13mm...
 
Yes I'm here begging for help because I fawked sh*t up and you know more than me
Yes, I'm a complete and utter stupid motherfuker for the oil thing. I will be kicking myself for years to come.
OK OK I was exaggerating with the margin of non-interference-ness, it's a ways from interference, you're right
If I'm not mistaken I have the beefiest rods of all those used in redblocks - not that they're okay necessarily. I can see that the pistons are down the bore a tiny bit, not zero deck. Are you saying my pistons could be too close to deck at TDC? How in the fawk would that come about? Aside from the machine shop taking off way too much by mistake?
 
Last edited:
I'm not sure why everyone is stressing over this, slap a head gasket on it and see if it runs. Does the bottom end turn freely? Check the head and block for cracks. What the worst that could happen, it'll make some funny noises before it ventilates the block.
 
VB242 said:
I'm not sure why everyone is stressing over this, slap a head gasket on it and see if it runs. Does the bottom end turn freely? Check the head and block for cracks. What the worst that could happen, it'll make some funny noises before it ventilates the block.
Click to expand...

Agreed. If you aren't finding anything jacked up after taking the head off, get the dowels in the block and slap it all together.
 
smncutler said:
Yes I'm here begging for help because I fawked sh*t up and you know more than me
Yes, I'm a complete and utter stupid motherfuker for the oil thing. I will be kicking myself for years to come.
OK OK I was exaggerating with the margin of non-interference-ness, it's a ways from interference, you're right
If I'm not mistaken I have the beefiest rods of all those used in redblocks - not that they're okay necessarily. I can see that the pistons are down the bore a tiny bit, not zero deck. Are you saying my pistons could be too close to deck at TDC? How in the fawk would that come about? Aside from the machine shop taking off way too much by mistake?
Click to expand...

Kick yourself later...Even better, turn it into an Epic Adventure....you have other problems now..

So back to the questions..Ya gots M rods and a B23...1000%?????

M rods are virtually indestructible...because they weigh about a half pound more than a sensible rod that size 9and that causes stress on the crank and that causes vibrations blah blah)
Main thing is--unlike what some guys ^ up there were assuring you, you didn't obviously ass-splode the entire engine sending shards of red-hot cast iron in a 150m kill radius..

Again just for double checking: you had the "Oben/top" marks oben und topp? (gasket right way up?)
What's gasket look-a like now?
(we are still trying to track down zero compression aren't we???)


whatchoo gonna do about the river of oil cascading out the rear main?
 
I do believe I had my gasket on right, it looked mint, I just missed the guide sleeves (whoopsie).
I'll get the sleeves and stick my head in, whether or nut it runs I'll pull it out (or at least the tranny) to get the rear main shoved in good.
 
Sooo... any reason for the lack of compression found yet? Were the spark plugs damaged enough to leak?

You obviously can't compression test with the head off, but what I did once with my PV's b20 was to just rotate the motor around until all 4 pistons are level, and then pout a modest amount of motor oil into each cylinder, maybe 1/2 " deep. Then let it sit overnight. If it's all still there and all 4 cylinders are pretty even in the morning, then I'd stop worrying about the bottom end. If one or two cylinders drain noticeably faster than the others, then I'd go ahead and pull them all out and give them a good look.
 
Since last night they all hold the same amount of whatever 10w oil I could find, I'll give it a week
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top