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Old 08-12-2015, 01:52 PM   #1
242Bleek
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Default New Clutch, not completely disengaging

Hello, I recently installed a new Clutchnet red PP with organic disc in my 83 245t with a flat flywheel and M46. When I first installed it I could not get the clutch to disengage at all. The only way I could make it disengage was use up every bit of travel in the cable and now it barely disengages with the pedal on the floor and clutch for hitting the front side of its hole on the bell housing. I can drive it but it grinds very bad if you put it in reverse and it nearly impossible to put in first and the car leaps forward some if you do which tells me the clutch isn't fully releasing. Otherwise while driving its perfect.

It looks as if the fingers on the clutch net pp sit very far in and I'm going to need some sort of taller release bearing or a clutch fork with a taller shape to it to press the fingers earlier in the travel. I heard the M47 fork is different, would this be the solution to my problem? Anyone else ran into this? Thanks
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Old 08-12-2015, 02:20 PM   #2
VB242
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Did you put the disk in the wrong way maybe? Might just need a new clutch cable, your old one might be stretched beyond useful limits.
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Old 08-12-2015, 02:38 PM   #3
242Bleek
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Disc is installed properly. Cable and throwout bearing are brand new.
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Old 08-12-2015, 02:45 PM   #4
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How about flywheel bolts, did you replace them? Are they too tall? I replaced mine with some socket head bolts once and had to grind them down to make the clutch disk fit properly.
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Old 08-12-2015, 02:45 PM   #5
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Combining a stock PP and a US disc always results in the fingers being "in' too much..
The US material spec is a smidge to a skoatch thicker...so as you pull down the bolts the fingers go "deeper"..
You need some AN "half thickness" 5/16s washers between the PP and flywheel..
http://www.chiefaircraft.com/hd-an960516l50.html

HD AN960516L50



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Half Thickness Cad-plate Steel Flat Washer, 5/16", 50 pack


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Alternate:
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Old 08-12-2015, 02:55 PM   #6
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Ahh okay, so adding the washers will bring the fingers out and change the release point of the PP? This won't mess with its torque holding capability?
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Old 08-12-2015, 03:18 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 242Bleek View Post
Ahh okay, so adding the washers will bring the fingers out and change the release point of the PP? This won't mess with its torque holding capability?
No. It means the fingers are where they're 'spossed to be..
If fact where you have them is sorta like you were slightly depressing the pedal..

Its kinda like a compound bow...start pulling, then there's an increasing load, (thats where the clutch should be) and if you continue it "cams over' and in case of the car, the clutch releases and effort goes down.
Its been a problem for as long as Velvet-touch has been supplying material that people put on euro cars. so at least 35 years a pain for me..Its perfectly fine to tune the position with washers if they are ground flat washers like those AN ones (which I've used for 30 years)
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Old 08-12-2015, 03:29 PM   #8
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Thanks, I ordered some, hopefully this solves it.
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Old 08-12-2015, 04:04 PM   #9
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The stock Sachs discs I've measured (for most Volvo applications) are .275" thick (new, lightly clamped flat) (not sure how reliable this is since there's that lovely little layer between the halves of the thing that makes it engage smoooooothly, and I don't "squish" it to measure it, just close a smooth vice on it just enough so it can be measured "pad to bad"). Most of the "clutchnet" (whatever they are) things are ~.325" thick measured same way, same deal; new, slightly clamped to lay "flat". YMMV.

Machine a step in the flywheel I suppose?
Or space the cover outward?
Measure "stack height" from crankshaft flange to clutch cover "fingers" and double check? (I have this number somewhere as well). Double check their angle and range of travel?

What you are describing is very much the "compound bow" (or lack thereof) effect of a diaphragm spring of a (somewhat) modern clutch.

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Old 08-12-2015, 05:13 PM   #10
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I had the same problems as you. I just installed a new Clutchnet disc and shimmed it via JohnV method and it works exactly how it should now.
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Old 08-12-2015, 08:56 PM   #11
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Which release bearing are you using?
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Old 08-12-2015, 11:55 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by towerymt View Post
Which release bearing are you using?
Whichever one came with the spec clutch kit I bought for the car. I tossed the spec clutch because it was garbage, kept the same release bearing though. To be honest the release point of the old spec clutch wasn't much different except it would fully disengage, but it almost took up all the cable to do so. Which is why I initially thought that maybe spec sent me the wrong release bearing and maybe theres different types.
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Old 08-13-2015, 09:03 AM   #13
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I guess I should have asked what type of adapter you have....does it use a Ford or Volvo bearing?

I've never used an adapter kit that retains the Volvo bearing. I use a modified M46 fork (just grind down the height of the pins a little) along with some rectangular brass blocks to adapter to the Ford bearing. I tried to use an off the shelf 5.0 Mustang bearing (~$15, available anywhere) because it was for our lemons car and I didn't want to use difficult to find parts. Well, the bearing wasn't tall enough, so we ended up having to preload the cable just to get the clutch to disengage. Obviously that didn't work out. So then I ordered the taller McLeod bearing for the Mustang application (~$90). That's what I use in my car, so I knew it would work...and it does. It just costs a lot more.
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Old 08-13-2015, 11:15 AM   #14
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I have a clutchnet clutch and spec yellow pressure plate with a flat flywheel. Using dales adapter for the T5 that uses volvos stock throw out bearing, I had to shim the pivot ball with one nut or two in order to get the travel in the right range to disengage the clutch.
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Old 08-13-2015, 11:37 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by towerymt View Post
I guess I should have asked what type of adapter you have....does it use a Ford or Volvo bearing?

I've never used an adapter kit that retains the Volvo bearing. I use a modified M46 fork (just grind down the height of the pins a little) along with some rectangular brass blocks to adapter to the Ford bearing. I tried to use an off the shelf 5.0 Mustang bearing (~$15, available anywhere) because it was for our lemons car and I didn't want to use difficult to find parts. Well, the bearing wasn't tall enough, so we ended up having to preload the cable just to get the clutch to disengage. Obviously that didn't work out. So then I ordered the taller McLeod bearing for the Mustang application (~$90). That's what I use in my car, so I knew it would work...and it does. It just costs a lot more.
I've got the same kind of adapter, and had to tighten the adjustment to the point of no freeplay to get it to disengage. Do you have a link or PN for the McLeod bearing?
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Old 08-13-2015, 04:46 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stiggy Pop View Post
I've got the same kind of adapter, and had to tighten the adjustment to the point of no freeplay to get it to disengage. Do you have a link or PN for the McLeod bearing?
p/n 16515: http://www.pbase.com/towerymt/image/123417662.jpg

Only $66, I thought it was more: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mcl-16515

3 pics here: http://www.pbase.com/towerymt/240&page=27
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Old 08-14-2015, 07:26 PM   #17
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same one I just bought Mike. I hope I dont have any issues. Bad luck seems to follow me.
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