240 Death after exhaust manifold gasket repair

It is late, barely got home, searched a little, with little results.

The Car: 1990 240+T converted to lh 2.4

Replaced the exhaust manifold gasket, went smoothly no issues on tues. Car starts and drives just fine no issues, crazy ticking is gone. Weds night it starts acting like it has a weak battery, I get stuck at the grocery store. Get a jump and it runs fine. I try and start it today and the battery is toast, I need to head to work, I live on a hill and its a stick, score .

I leave work (parked on a hill) turn on the fan to defrost the windows and the lights dim and the tach starts jumping all over the place. Turn the fan off and the tach returns to normal. The car is driving fine at this point.

I continue driving and any time I do something requiring power; blinkers, wipers, lights, fan motor the tach freaks out, lights dim and the srs light comes on, the car is still driving normal though.

Pulling out into traffic I need to get on the gas. I notice the tach is freaking out again but I haven't done anything electrical this time. When I hit about 3k rpms (guessing by sound) the car completely bogs down. Get off the gas and its fine, get on it and it bogs again.

As soon as I pull into the driveway it dies.

Through all this the only light that came on was the srs. I am guessing I had to bump something during the gasket change? Its 945 now I am not messing with it till the am.

Pointers on where to start besides a new battery or is the issue something else?

EXHAUST SIDE OF THE ENGINE (where your were mucking about)
is where the ALTERNATOR is mounted -- go have a GOOD looksee
at the wiring on back of the alternator for loose / shorted / broken
wires (these wires ALSO run "inside a vinyl sheath" down under the
snout of the crank shaft - look for brittle / oil soaked / flaky wiring
there as well

exhaust manifold gasket means you were also fussing where the O2 sensor
wiring comes up from below....
the Crank Position Sensor runs up the back of the engine in that rough area..
look for "opened up insulation" showing you TIN FOIL like shielding (if you can
see the "inner shielding" you should consider a replacement - "boogie-chord"
is OEM)...

just three thoughts for ya...

^ Everything he said.

TrickMick said:

EXHAUST SIDE OF THE ENGINE (where your were mucking about)
is where the ALTERNATOR is mounted -- go have a GOOD looksee
at the wiring on back of the alternator for loose / shorted / broken
wires (these wires ALSO run "inside a vinyl sheath" down under the
snout of the crank shaft - look for brittle / oil soaked / flaky wiring
there as well

exhaust manifold gasket means you were also fussing where the O2 sensor
wiring comes up from below....
the Crank Position Sensor runs up the back of the engine in that rough area..
look for "opened up insulation" showing you TIN FOIL like shielding (if you can
see the "inner shielding" you should consider a replacement - "boogie-chord"
is OEM)...

just three thoughts for ya...

Click to expand...

And that is why I do not work on cars when I am tired! Totally blanked on checking the wiring to the alternator!

We're with ya bro...

Make sure the alternator dummy light comes on with the other warning lights with the key in the run position before you start the car. Some of the alternators use the +12v signal off the lamp to provide an initial startup current required to get the alternator to start charging.

Search for exciter wire if this seems like a symptom... most alternators will self-excite around 3-4k rpm and start charging, but not always.

Battery terminals, too. And grounds.

Pretty sure I put a new regulator in that alt when the brushes were worn to almost nothing. I remember putting in a spare that wasn't worn as much, then replacing w/new when the part arrived. Still have the stock Bosch alternator?

I used to have the issue where the car didn't charge at idle when first started, but I'd drive down the street and it would start charging and the volt gauge flicks from ~12 to ~14 volts.

Sounds like alt isn't charging for some reason.

Follow up,

The dummy light was working at start up and the car was not exhibiting any of the typical "alternator is dying" symptoms. That was why I was really confused.

I pulled the alternator, there was some rust on the contact points and nuts/bolts. Cleaned everything up really good, put it back together and everything is working fine!

Follow part 2:

Pulled my alternator and cleaned the contacts and it ran great for 3 days. Started acting crazy again on the way home and it sits dead in the driveway as I type this. Gonna pull the alternator again and look at the brushes. I cannot get the belt any tighter, the tension screw is maxed out and it still feels a little loose, not terrible though!

pdougc said:

Follow part 2:

Pulled my alternator and cleaned the contacts and it ran great for 3 days. Started acting crazy again on the way home and it sits dead in the driveway as I type this. Gonna pull the alternator again and look at the brushes. I cannot get the belt any tighter, the tension screw is maxed out and it still feels a little loose, not terrible though!

Click to expand...

if the brushes were DIRTY and *arc spattered* you should
replace the regulator assembly (even Bosch is suspect at this point
so shop for price)
your "isolator mounts" are worn replace (and instal in proper order)
with THESE:
http://www.ipdusa.com/products/4762/112309-hd-engine-accessory-mounting-bushings
shop for price!


these are OFTEN INSTALLED INCORRECTLY!!
there are threads here in Manit/Non-perf on installing these...
if you're not sure / can't find them ping back and we'll help ya find them...

I have had alternators work fine for the first say 15-20 minutes of running then crap out and stop charging. Be sure to check the charging not only when first starting but when the engine has been running for at least a half hour so it's nice and hot.

Follow up, seeing that my bushing were bad, as in really bad, like they fell out I did not have to press them out I replaced those with ones from ipd and have been running the car for a week with no other problems.

Follow up to the follow up. Car ran great for a couple days, then died again. No garage and too cold meant it sat most of the winter. Ordered a working alt from a member here installed it, ran great for a week and now I am sitting here on the side if the road waiting for the tow truck. I am going to go back and take a better look at the wiring. Each time take out the alt and reinstall it runs great for a couple days then it dies. Excuse the typing and grammar on the side of the road...

Sorry to hear, what a drag. I wonder on the condition of your battery cables, positive cable, but more importantly the ground, as well as ground wire to alternator. Alternator seems to be working, but what about cables and wiring of the charging system?

like trickmick (rip) said, the wiring that runs under the front of the engine is for the alternator and the oil pressure idiot light, thats a common place for wiring to go bad. oil gets in the insulation and eats it up.

sounds to me like sketchy wiring, so I could crack out the wiring diagrams for whatever car you pulled the harness off of (1990 should have already been lh2.4?)(brickspeed.net has some great wiring diagrams) and get out a voltmeter and start checking continuity of the wires under the crank snout. also, try just replacing the ground wire, its about 5" long and easy to replace, and gets sketchy just as easily.

good luck

Not sure if you have the same wiring but I had a very similar problem and replaced much of the same to no avail. Ended up being a loose and dirty connection at the starter where the + battery cable and the + alternator cable connect on the same starter post. Cleaned it up and tightened it down and no problems since.

E

I suspect he left the batt cables on the battery when he installed the ex. mani/turbo gaskets, and managed to ground & arc the + terminal on back of alt with a wrench.

This will usually ruin the alt's diodes, or blow the alt altogether (IME). Either wy you'll have a "lazy charge rate" & a slow discharge of battery due to bad diode/s allowing current to flow "backwards". *OR*a no charging alt altogether.

Blown diodes usually indicated by Batt/Alt light glowing *very dimly*, IME.

I've seen this happen a few times doing ex. mani work and oil filter changes........and did it myself once years ago. I now always disconnect batt cables when working in that area, or at least cover alt terminals well with rag or rubber sheeting

Just posting some observations:
I have quite a bit of corrosion going on everywhere, I am going through all the wiring connections.

I noticed after jumping the car, if I turn the lights off I can turn wipers, fan motor, blinkers, flashers etc on and everything is fine.. If i turn the lights on, everything goes to hell in a hand basket. That seems really weird.

Smokey, I am on my second alt with both the them the batt/alt light has never come on, it does come on at start though.

Headlight circuit issue? I might start looking somewhere there.

Had a few connections that were not properly seated and the wiring going to the starter had a fair amount of corrosion, got that taking care of. All the grounds were good and the wiring harness was free of cracks and splitting.

Tried starting it and it cranks like a champ, won't start now though . Went back and checked everything, all is buttoned up. I think I might have starved the fuel pumps...fuses are good and the pumps are not making any noises, off to research that...this is no longer fun!