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Old 04-16-2012, 08:40 PM   #51
M.H. Yount
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I jumpered the pump again and set the fuel pressure to 39 psig. Took it off the jack stands and turned the key. She fired up on the first try. Settled into a nice 800 rpm idle -- 19" of vacuum brought the fuel pressure down to 30 psig at idle. I thought it was quiet standing at the back of the car with the trunk open - but you can't even hear the pump prime from inside the car anymore. You certainly can't hear it with the motor running. Took it around the neighborhood long enough to bring the cooling fans on and the oil temp up to 180F. Very uneventful. No pressure venting out of the fuel cap. Fuses/wires/connectors all cool to the touch. No leaks of liquid or 'smoke'. Should be good for a 200 mile run down to the Walter Mitty vintage races at Road Atlanta weekend after next.

And I test fit my new Voxx 17x8's. All went well. Man does the wheel ever sit close to the strut....but not much moves around up there. 1/4" is as good as a skosh.

I'm calling this one a success. Only thing left to do is let it run for 3 or 4 hours on a long cruise. But I suspect that will be as uneventful as the trip around the neighborhood was.

Thanks for the tips/help/questions.
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Old 04-16-2012, 08:47 PM   #52
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Great. Doing it right the first time definitely saves some headaches later.
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Old 04-29-2012, 09:03 PM   #53
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Well, well, well - not so fast. Car starts, runs absolutely great. Can't hear the pump at all -- couldn't be happier with all that.

Problem is this -- I smell fuel fumes in the garage. There are no leaks at fittings or hoses. As I research this -- it seems it's quite a common problem for folks that use SS or textile braid hose. It has it's roots in the fact that usually none of these hoses (with rubber-based cores) are rated SAE30R9 for fuel use (or better rating). I believe that the problem is that with ethanol in the fuel the molecules of certain components of the fuel literally come through the hose. LOTS of people face this problem it seems. And all are upset about it as many have spent literally hundreds of dollars on stainless braided hose only to have it stinking up the joint. No danger apparently - but a pain in the butt if you have a car that sits in a closed garage for any length of time. Luckily, the garage the Volvo lives in is detached; some folks are actually getting fuel fumes inside their houses!

So far the supplier (Fragola) hasn't returned my email asking questions about the problem. I'll try again next week and also bring Summit into the picture as I actually bought everything through them. In the meantime I found a Ferrari guy out on the west coast who has had some success by putting polyolefin shrink tubing around the fuel line. For about $25 I can try that and see - before I give up and bend hard aluminum lines. Knowing the routing as I now do intimately, it turns out the hard lines won't be so bad if I have to go that route. I only need a 'bender' for one tighter radius turn on the return line at the front of the car. All the rest I can simply 'shape' by hand.

Everything, it seems, is a production.

Word to the wise -- before you lay out a bunch of green for this type hose do your research. Hard lines may be a better (certainly less expensive) to go. FWIW -- the folks that have SS braided lines with a teflon core don't seem to have this problem. Moral of the story is - you can buy fuel line that is hell-for-stout when it comes to dealing with heat, pressure and abrasion. But it won't stop tiny little hydrocarbon molecules from passing right through it unless it was designed to do just that.

Found a place where I can get 25' of polyolefin shrink tube for $19. Gonna try that and then cover it with a silicone stretch tape and see if those barriers solve the problem. Stay tuned. Although -- it's getting boring even for me at this point. I've got new wheels to sand and paint...

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Old 05-19-2012, 01:59 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M.H. Yount View Post
Well, well, well - not so fast. Car starts, runs absolutely great. Can't hear the pump at all -- could be happier with all that.

Problem is this -- I smell fuel fumes in the garage. There are no leaks at fittings or hoses. As I research this -- it seems it's quite a common problem for folks that use SS or textile braid hose. It has it's roots in the fact that usually none of these hoses (with rubber-based cores) are rated SAE30R9 for fuel use (or better rating). I believe that the problem is that with ethanol in the fuel the molecules of certain components of the fuel literally come through the hose. LOTS of people face this problem it seems. And all are upset about it as many have spent literally hundreds of dollars on stainless braided hose only to have it stinking up the joint. No danger apparently - but a pain in the butt if you have a car that sits in a closed garage for any length of time. Luckily, the garage the Volvo lives in is detached; some folks are actually getting fuel fumes inside their houses!

So far the supplier (Fragola) hasn't returned my email asking questions about the problem. I'll try again next week and also bring Summit into the picture as I actually bought everything through them. In the meantime I found a Ferrari guy out on the west coast who has had some success by putting polyolefin shrink tubing around the fuel line. For about $25 I can try that and see - before I give up and bend hard aluminum lines. Knowing the routing as I now do intimately, it turns out the hard lines won't be so bad if I have to go that route. I only need a 'bender' for one tighter radius turn on the return line at the front of the car. All the rest I can simply 'shape' by hand.

Everything, it seems, is a production.

Word to the wise -- before you lay out a bunch of green for this type hose do your research. Hard lines may be a better (certainly less expensive) to go. FWIW -- the folks that have SS braided lines with a teflon core don't seem to have this problem. Moral of the story is - you can buy fuel line that is hell-for-stout when it comes to dealing with heat, pressure and abrasion. But it won't stop tiny little hydrocarbon molecules from passing right through it unless it was designed to do just that.

Found a place where I can get 25' of polyolefin shrink tube for $19. Gonna try that and then cover it with a silicone stretch tape and see if those barriers solve the problem. Stay tuned. Although -- it's getting boring even for me at this point. I've got new wheels to sand and paint...
Bumping the thread I know.
If you do go the heatshrink route. Search out Raychem DR-25. Its the diesel resistant type so it'll be happy around fuel. Not cheap though.
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Old 06-20-2012, 07:15 PM   #55
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Car's been running so good and so much fun to drive I've been delaying taking it down to heat shrink the lines! But I finally did today. Pulled 'em off and have 'em hanging in front of a fan to dry them out. Confirmed -- you can definitely smell gasoline outside the hose when you put your nose on it. I'm going to try a relatively low buck fix -- silicone stretch wrap tape and then the polyolefin shrink-wrap (3:1) over it. If that doesn't do it - I'll just hard line it with aluminum tubing. The RayChem is $464 for 50'. I don't have that in the whole fuel system - pump, line, fittings, etc. LOL Besides, it's only available in a 2:1 reduction - and that won't git 'r done. Need 1" to fit over the fittings - and need 3:1 reduction to cinch things up.
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Old 06-21-2012, 08:40 PM   #56
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Lines came off easily and the silicone tape and heatshrink went on beautifully. Should get it running tomorrow and we'll see if the aroma of gasoline is a distant memory.
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Old 06-22-2012, 02:24 PM   #57
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looks good!!! you coming to the NC meet????
if so, do you still have that old kjet pump laying around???
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Old 06-22-2012, 05:13 PM   #58
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awesome.
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Old 06-22-2012, 05:55 PM   #59
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No - won't make it up on Sunday. I didn't get it all the way back together today. The silicone wrap and heat shrink increased the diameter just enough that my insulated clamps don't fit; so I've got to do some reconfiguring. And I've got to change my speedo gear as well - easy while it's up in the air. HOPING I get the gear/new o-ring in the mail tomorrow. Don't have my old pumps -- I donated them to a buddy with a Nissan SR20 turbo motor in a 510 Datsun.
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Old 06-26-2012, 09:43 AM   #60
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Early - but it appears we have success!!! I primed the pump yesterday -- and 18 hours later - no gasoline smell in the garage. When I first primed - I had the smell of gasoline 8 hours later. If it changes I'll post again.
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Old 07-01-2012, 04:39 PM   #61
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Well - it's better, but definitely not perfect. Good enough to leave alone for a while. Perhaps a winter project to pull the 3 lines back off and remake them in hardline aluminum.
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Old 07-01-2012, 10:18 PM   #62
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Nice thread Michael, what NC meet are they talking about? Ralph
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Old 07-01-2012, 10:55 PM   #63
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Last Sunday (June 24?) several folks from NC (and perhaps VA) met up around the Raleigh area - cruising, pics, burgers -- looked like a good time was had by all. There's a thread somewhere with pictures.
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Old 09-16-2012, 05:26 PM   #64
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Thanks for this great thread!

I suspect I'll be doing something similar on my cars in the next year. 20 years in the rust belt makes for grumpy fuel lines.

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Old 09-16-2012, 05:52 PM   #65
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Got a few months on it now and it is working unbelievably well. Quiet, fuel pressure rock solid, more capability than I'll come close to using with either this motor or the LS to follow. And appears to be using less amperage than the two stockers it replaced. Daddy's happy.
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Old 11-25-2012, 07:49 PM   #66
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Resubscribing.....
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Old 01-31-2013, 02:23 PM   #67
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Well - after 8 months of living with it - there's still a faint smell of gasoline in the garage -- related to the high level of permeability of Fragola's Series 8000 line. So -- I'm going to pull off the Fragola and hard pipe it with aluminum tubing supply and return. I'll use a short bit of SAE30R9 or SAE30R14 that I have in hand to make up the stubs that come off the fuel pump/sender unit -- just to not have to route the aluminum hard line into that space on top of the gas tank. About $40 worth of fitings/tubing. And wasting $100 on the Fragola line. Oh well - live and learn. The good news is that the hard part - routing/hanging/shielding is already done. Just a matter of pulling the old lines off and flaring both ends on a couple of long runs of tubing. And that should end the fuel smell.
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Old 02-08-2013, 09:59 PM   #68
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Supply/passenger's side done....




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Old 02-09-2013, 02:06 AM   #69
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What kind of flare tool are you using?
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Old 02-09-2013, 09:03 AM   #70
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Brand? I have no idea Dave - borrowed my buddy's. Are you considering buying one? I should get back to the shop later today and I'll try and remember to see what brand it is. Sure is easy to use....

Edit - "Imperial" brand, Made in the U.S.A. standard 37 degree AN flare

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/IMP...E47?Pid=search

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Old 02-09-2013, 12:34 PM   #71
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Quote:
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Brand? I have no idea Dave - borrowed my buddy's. Are you considering buying one? I should get back to the shop later today and I'll try and remember to see what brand it is. Sure is easy to use....

Edit - "Imperial" brand, Made in the U.S.A. standard 37 degree AN flare

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/IMP...E47?Pid=search
Thanks. I'll need to buy one some day.
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Old 02-09-2013, 08:00 PM   #72
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All done. No leaks apparent. All 4 flared fittings sealed on the first try.

Return line up over the axle - connection between hose and hard line...



Same return line up towards the front...





So far - no smell.

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Old 02-11-2013, 04:48 PM   #73
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Nice Work!

Read through this after it was linked in the AN sender thread.

Question for you - what type of seal do the AN fittings use were they pass through the sender body? I presume you have no vapor/fuel loss at that point? Seems like it was only the porous lines at issue?

I'm using nitrile 10mm line for my setup - same stuff the car came with, just larger ID - with the factory Ford style quick connects, but the sender I/O is a problem for me use to the extremely limited space. Since my sender seat is a recessed cup, I'd need elbows with some sort of extension, but that may still be easier than trying to fit 3/8" QC line fittings.

Do you have any links to the specific components you used at the sender I/O?
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Old 02-11-2013, 06:29 PM   #74
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The bulkhead fittings have nylon washers above and below the sender top plate -- and you tighten them down with the nut on the bulkhead fitting. No leak there - it's designed to be a fuel-cell bulkhead fitting. On the electric I/O - I ran all three wires (ground, hot, sender) up through what was previously an unused vent line that had a cap on it. And once I ran them through - I mixed up some two part epoxy and sealed off the rest of that pass-through. The original supply/return lines I filled with epoxy and then pinched off the ends above and below the plate.
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Old 03-10-2013, 06:57 PM   #75
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Thanks for your input. I ended up silver soldering a 3/8"QC fitting over the stick pipe - I had no real room to work with fittings like yours. Shown here pre- POR15 treatment.



The 3/8-3/8" elbow will clear the sender cap nut, and sit low enough to clear the bulkhead.



Thanks again for the great info in your thread!
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