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Fill or sleeve?

linuxman51

linuxman51

Railspeeder Enthusiast #1
300+ Club
Joined
Dec 25, 2002
Location
mont, AL
That is the question. Nobility has no purpose here so we needn't opine on that.

Rob had issues with his as I recall (after 50 miles of driving), but it does seem to be a somewhat routine thing for the swedes.

With sleeves, correct me if I'm wrong, you can't go larger than the cylinder walls already allow for. I've been rocking 96.5mm slugs, but depending on damage and review can get whatever. Hear also the swedes seem to prefer whole skirt pistons rather than the partial skirt ones I've currently got.

the block split on the gold car, and while I think it was possibly more of a failed component type of issue, my cursory reading on the subject indicates that I'm up around the level where they actually can and do crack. I'd rather not put it all back together only to have to do this all again.

my block was staked.
 
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Let me talk to the freaks at the machine shop. We tore Rob's engine down there, so they are familiar with the issues (he had 4-corner cuffing, and the skirts on 2 pistons were way under from deformation)
 
cross posted on savar, bit more detail there, I'll put the relevent info here as well.
http://forum.savarturbo.se/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=92047

hard-ish facts:
-96.5mm pistons with appropriate piston to wall clearance (still snug in there from the looks of it, no rocking at the top).
-pistons don't have full skirt (erland and I believe others have suggested on savar that this is not a good thing in big turbo engines)
-pinned the block, one on the driver's side (non thrust side) about halfway up the bore, two on the passenger side, somewhere around 1/3 and 2/3 up. all pins down the approximate centerline of the bores. I could, I suppose, put additional pins in at angles on the thrust side on the next block, but they'd probably have to be smaller than the 3/8s all-thread I think I used.

Root cause is thought to be injector flaking out on #3, since it's the only cylinder showing clear signs of distress, and obviously the one that cracked. I would also mention that this is the engine that got flipped through a field at tripple digits in 2010, however since then it's been getting abused a fair amount, and only after this latest issue did it seem to have problems. prior to this, it's been kosher, as they say.

I like the idea of being able to drive the car on the street, although the reality of that is-I do some occasional check-ups, and trips to the gas station and nearby car shows (~6 miles) and nothing else. I would like the option though if I choose, but it's not a deal breaker I reckon.
 
any more insight than that? Sidebar-so the obama express ended up chucking a rod, right? givin' it hell right up to the end :)
 
If you fill the block you need to extensive work the cooling system to make it work. You will have to add extra cooling ports, usually via the freeze plug holes.

What you really need is a thicker cylinder bore and pinning. Its much less work to just have a thicker sleeve dropped in by a qualified shop (lots of wrong ways to sleeve a motor and it can be tricky to get right)

Filling a motor is probably less $$$ out of pocket but alot more time fabbing and cobbling an adequate cooling system together. Sleeving, when done right is the best option IMHO.

I'm sure someone will come and tell me the opposite but thats just how I see it.
 
I tend to agree-I just want a bit more info on the process itself and the limitations thereof (i.e. how large of a sleeve can you use in terms of thickness and bore size).
 
my butthole started bleeding just looking at that. maybe if this thing goes 4 digits that'll be worth it. gawd. lol.
 
linuxman51 said:
any more insight than that? Sidebar-so the obama express ended up chucking a rod, right? givin' it hell right up to the end :)
Click to expand...
assumption/question...sleeving for the same bore size will result in a stronger block? I suppose you could reduce the bore if there are any concerns, since you mentioned the pistons need a design change anyway.

Re: 850, I was driving, and based on the sounds, I thought it scattered parts. I hopped off into the grass as soon as I could so I didn't oil down the track. If you listen/watch closely, I let the clutch out again in the grass and it rattles badly again, and I thought for sure we'd find oil all over. nope...no kool-aid man. locked up though. That was a surprise. I'm curious to see the damage. I want to see if just one rod bearing spun, or was it damage across multiple bearings. Cam bearings eaten up at all? I didn't think it got THAT low on oil, so I'm really curious to see the parts and hopefully come to some sort of conclusion.
 
towerymt said:
assumption/question...sleeving for the same bore size will result in a stronger block? I suppose you could reduce the bore if there are any concerns, since you mentioned the pistons need a design change anyway.
Click to expand...

I dunno, I'd think unless the OD of the sleeve is larger than the cast bore (which.. I don't think you can do, but hey I don't know much about this..) maybe the material is better and thus it's stronger? otherwise I'd think a reduction in bore size would be what would get you a stronger cylinder.

then the question becomes, how much relative strength do you get? I dunno, that's why I'm axin' ;)
 
Like you said, Kenny, it was 50 miles. But as Bne said, it was due to the way the engine builder got lazy and decided against doing the external cooling routing. He was talking about adding an AN fitting to the front of the water pump, two 90 degrees to get around underneath the exhaust manifold, then a tee to go into the block between 1 and 2, and then another 90 to go into the block near the back. I'm sure it could be done, but sleeveing might be easier?

I would do some research as to how the Swedes handle block cooling after filling.

Hope it's back together sooner rather than later! I guess it will be in the wagon at that point, right?
 
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