home register FAQ memberlist calendar

Go Back   Turbobricks Forums > Mechanical > performance & modifications

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-23-2018, 10:11 AM   #1
EivlEvo
Board Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Default (Added Video) New Injectors on TLAO Surging Idle?

Squad.

I suspect I already know the answer to this but in preparation for more turbo (93 245 +T currently a 15G IPD cam ebay IC and 3" exhaust) I swapped in the larger AMM from... whatever (960?) and some 55lb (577cc) injectors. I am on TLAO chips.

When I started the car on my old tune (read, I did not reset the ECU) it idled fine and my AFRs were PEGGED at 10 lol. But it idled fine.

I thought... ok... that's a solid proof of concept, lets reset and let it learn. Upon the first start post reset. Idle went straight to 2k and sat there for about a minute and then began surging between there and about 1300. After letting it sit and annoy my neighborhood for twenty minutes it seemed to stay at about 2k and every minute or so (consistent) it would drop the idle like it was going to stall, but it would save itself and go back to 2k.

Took it for a ride around the neighborhood. (Drives fine for a learning LH, aside from idle) and when I returned it idled fine surprisingly (but LITERALLY not until I pulled into the driveway haha). Shut it down and started it again about an hour later and was back to the surging idle. Ran for about 5 minutes and shut it down.

Started this AM to roll into work. Same thing. Longer commute and LITERALLY did not settle the idle down until I parallel parked it.

It's like it KNOWS when I'm at my destination! How smart is LH anyway

Anyhow... I just want to be sure I'm not missing something glaringly obvious and that this is "normal" for LH getting fuel rammed down it's gullet?

Last edited by EivlEvo; 05-13-2018 at 02:56 PM..
EivlEvo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2018, 10:13 AM   #2
EivlEvo
Board Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Default

These are the injectors if it matters?

http://www.racetronix.biz/itemdesc.a...1D066x&eq=&Tp=
EivlEvo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2018, 10:20 AM   #3
Uncleknucklez
bruspeed
 
Uncleknucklez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Sacramento, CA
Default

I do know that when I switched to my TLAO chips, it took almost 2 tanks for my LH24 car to figure out what it was doing. I have heard that it takes a tank for them to learn genrally, mine is just a little slower than most, I recommend waiting a bit longer. Just keep an eye on things, Rich is as bad as lean in some conditions as you know.
__________________
1980 242 Turbo
2004 V70R

Uncleknucklez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2018, 10:36 AM   #4
EivlEvo
Board Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncleknucklez View Post
I do know that when I switched to my TLAO chips, it took almost 2 tanks for my LH24 car to figure out what it was doing. I have heard that it takes a tank for them to learn genrally, mine is just a little slower than most, I recommend waiting a bit longer. Just keep an eye on things, Rich is as bad as lean in some conditions as you know.
Yeah for sure. Mine has been on the 2ish tank plan as well. It's "idling" with 14.7 AFRs whether at 2k or when I finished both trips and it settled in to ~700rpm.

I feel good about this advice. Was just curious if anyone else has has such excitement.
EivlEvo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2018, 01:37 PM   #5
sbabbs
Board Member
 
sbabbs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Rushing Lane, Scappoose, OR
Default

When you reset your LH 2.4 ECU it will rev up and down for a while as it learns....
__________________
1988 245 White slicktop M47 Wagon! 2.5L NA 8v going in.
1990 745 B230FT Getrag JohnV flywheel 240mm clutch 13c A-cam 3.54 G80 548K MILES
1991 740SE B230FT NPR Strut braces IPD bar A cam 550cc EV14's. 3.73 G80 M90 to put in.
sbabbs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2018, 09:24 PM   #6
EivlEvo
Board Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Default

Dumb question... is there any time limit for the ECU reset? Like... if I disconnect the battery... is it an instant wipe?
EivlEvo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2018, 12:18 AM   #7
thelostartof
unbalanced chemical
 
thelostartof's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Apache Junction, AZ
Default

Yes, or pull the #1 fuse resets LH.
__________________
Chip Feedback Thread / PM LH 2.4 Chip Prices
thelostartof is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2018, 10:13 AM   #8
EivlEvo
Board Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thelostartof View Post
Yes, or pull the #1 fuse resets LH.
Blast... driving around with people thinking I'm revving the motor at them isn't ideal hahaha...
EivlEvo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2018, 12:08 PM   #9
thelostartof
unbalanced chemical
 
thelostartof's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Apache Junction, AZ
Default

I would check for leaks and go over the basics making sure things are working correct as I have only seen a higher idle but never a big hunting of the idle that makes it seem like you are reving the engine.
thelostartof is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2018, 01:42 PM   #10
EivlEvo
Board Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thelostartof View Post
I would check for leaks and go over the basics making sure things are working correct as I have only seen a higher idle but never a big hunting of the idle that makes it seem like you are reving the engine.
Yeah I'll double check... it seems an awful lot like there's a boost leak, but I haven't located one and all I did was swap injectors and AMM (all I did lol).

The thing that makes me think this is "normal" is that when I started the car with the 3" AMM and the 577cc injectors WITHOUT resetting the battery/tune, the car idled fine but showed AFRs in the 10's.

It also drives just fine aside from some detonation when I hit boost while it learns... but I recall it doing that the last time as well.

I dunno... guide me you guys.
EivlEvo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2018, 02:03 PM   #11
thelostartof
unbalanced chemical
 
thelostartof's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Apache Junction, AZ
Default

Common issue after swapping injectors is the orings at the base of the injectors causing a vac leak and boost leak. Depends on if you used new orings.
thelostartof is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2018, 02:48 PM   #12
EivlEvo
Board Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thelostartof View Post
Common issue after swapping injectors is the orings at the base of the injectors causing a vac leak and boost leak. Depends on if you used new orings.
I did... I'll check and re-seat... I know the c clip things at the top were effectively useless because the injector bodies are so much wider... not sure how to address that?

But also... it idled fine prior to re-setting the ECU... which would seem to support the boost leak test I did?

I'm going to check it all again if it hasn't settled in by this weekend, but... I'm optimistic?

You don't think the 577cc/min is too much for the 3" AMM right? I read a lot of your posts about it and while it's on the rich side of ideal, it seemed that it would fit under the wire no?
EivlEvo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2018, 04:34 PM   #13
thelostartof
unbalanced chemical
 
thelostartof's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Apache Junction, AZ
Default

I ran 75lb injectors on the 3" amm without custom tuning. Those are not to big. I am currently running 65lb on a 3" amm.
thelostartof is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2018, 04:39 PM   #14
EivlEvo
Board Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thelostartof View Post
I ran 75lb injectors on the 3" amm without custom tuning. Those are not to big. I am currently running 65lb on a 3" amm.
How was your first startup/learning curve though? Just high idle until it found 14.7 or...
EivlEvo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2018, 06:14 PM   #15
thelostartof
unbalanced chemical
 
thelostartof's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Apache Junction, AZ
Default

First start was 10:1 idle and cruise, I let it idle for 3-4 min and then took it for a light throttle drive of about 7-8 miles. After that I shut it off and the next day I did a cold start and idle afrs were around 12:1. I went for another light throttle cruise and afrs leveled out to 14.7 for cruise and idle after about 1-2 miles. From there I drove it to work and back over the next couple of days being light on the throttle and not doing more than 70% throttle or any hard lifts off throttle. The next tank of gas I drove it as I normally do and all was fine. Those first few cold starts and drives over the first 100-250 miles there would be times were I would get a 1500-1800rpm idle but if you tap the gas or hit the brake a few times the idle would go up and then back down to around 1100. After that first tank was done most all of the little issues were gone. Afrs were a bit rich under load for that first tank but after that things were fine.

Depending on how well you treat LH on the learning cycle will determine how quick it learns.

Then again on my 744 with LH my ecu would be reset at the track when they tested the battery kill switch and after that I would get one or two hot starts and idles done and then be going full throttle down the track with the afrs being correct but that was on a map that I had already fine tuned by hand. That LH setup was what was able to do consistent low 12s every time. Each pass down the track always got a little faster but that could of also been because of it getting cooler out along with LH leaning out as it learns.
thelostartof is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2018, 11:12 PM   #16
EivlEvo
Board Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Default

Hmm... well, I feeeeeeel like it's making progress. I'm less than a half tank into it. I'm definitely going to check things over this weekend, but for now... I'll trust the system.

Side question... what is it actually DOING during this time? I assume the maps are in there... why would it shuffle through? Why would it not want to bias rich for boost and lean? My car seems to knock hard if I go into boost during the learning curve?
EivlEvo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2018, 11:19 PM   #17
thelostartof
unbalanced chemical
 
thelostartof's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Apache Junction, AZ
Default

How much boost? what turbo? what octane fuel? running my EZK chip or stock? what are afr's under load?
thelostartof is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2018, 12:10 AM   #18
EivlEvo
Board Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Default

Your ezk. 93 245+T 15g ~15psi big eBay cooler ipd cam 3" exhaust and amm with 577cc injectors.

Haven't really put it under load much with this reset yet. On the 315 orange tops and stock amm this setup would be high elevens under load.
EivlEvo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2018, 12:10 AM   #19
EivlEvo
Board Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Default

93 octane
EivlEvo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2018, 01:08 AM   #20
thelostartof
unbalanced chemical
 
thelostartof's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Apache Junction, AZ
Default

If you are getting ping on 93 octane I would expect something to be off on your setup, base timing or something like that. on 91octane I can get 14psi without knock on nearly the same setup. Was there knock with the old injectors? When did the knock start?
thelostartof is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2018, 09:42 AM   #21
EivlEvo
Board Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thelostartof View Post
If you are getting ping on 93 octane I would expect something to be off on your setup, base timing or something like that. on 91octane I can get 14psi without knock on nearly the same setup. Was there knock with the old injectors? When did the knock start?
No no... I don't get ANY ping once it learns. It's only while it's learning the boost curve and it's only in the lower RPMs. Once the ECU learns though, no knock.

So far this is the same with old injectors and AMM and these injectors and new AMM... the only difference is the surging idle.

That said, it's shifted from a revving (akin to when there's a huge vac leak) to more of holding 1600rpm and then cutting the (something) out to drop the idle but it almost stalls and wakes itself back up to 1600rpm. When I got to work this morning and it reached the idle (800rpm) consistently, I sat there for about ten minutes and the AFRs were hunting around while the RPM was changing (only perceptible by ear not gauge) +- a few RPM.

AFAIK my timing should be straight up and down... my head does have a bunch of metal removed from it though... not sure if that affects the timing...?
EivlEvo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2018, 10:04 AM   #22
Tfrasca
Board Member
 
Tfrasca's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Aptos, CA
Default

Taking a lot of material off the head would retard the cam timing. Probably not a whole lot, though.
Tfrasca is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2018, 10:36 AM   #23
thelostartof
unbalanced chemical
 
thelostartof's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Apache Junction, AZ
Default

Sounds like a leak or maybe dirty iac or something else might be part of the issue.
thelostartof is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2018, 11:12 AM   #24
EivlEvo
Board Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thelostartof View Post
Sounds like a leak or maybe dirty iac or something else might be part of the issue.
I guess I don't disagree, but then why would it have idled rock solid on the old tune with the new parts?
EivlEvo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2018, 11:38 AM   #25
thelostartof
unbalanced chemical
 
thelostartof's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Apache Junction, AZ
Default

No clue, LH is odd and when mixing and matching parts you can get odd issues. Plus we are all using used AMMs.

Let it learn and see how it goes but always be aware of possible issues.
thelostartof is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:22 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.