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Old 05-09-2018, 07:02 PM   #51
EivlEvo
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Well kiddos. After wracking my brain to help trying to find this second "vac leak" it is in fact the amm. This is now confirmed as I pulled my 012 and plugged my 016 back in and the car idles just fine (I mean... Rich as all hell but no more of this surging nonsense. So... Need to grab another it seems.
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Old 05-09-2018, 11:18 PM   #52
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Did you reset the ECU before you.plugged in the stock AMM?
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Old 05-09-2018, 11:56 PM   #53
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I tried it both ways. I'm trying to eliminate variables.

When I replaced the hose on the intake side of the IACV (with the proper Volvo hose DESPITE my rigged thing not leaking... just to have one piece instead of hose clamp hell) I started it up and it did the same thing. Since the car was cool, and nothing had shown up with my smoke OR propane, I went shooting carb spray over the strategic areas. I got nothing with this (though admittedly, it's incredibly challenging when the idle is surging anyway).

So... while it was running, I unplugged the 012 AMM. This caused the madness to stop. I didn't go look at my gauges but I'd guess idle was about 800-1000 and going pig rich. Plugged it back in and same nonsense.

Then, I shut it off. Cleared my codes. Swapped my 016 AMM back in. Started it up and it idled fine. Again... pig rich.

Then, I shut it off and pulled the battery. Swapped the 012 back in. Started it up and after hunting about for a few seconds it went right back into the idle revving. I unplugged it while running, and it settled down. Plugged it back in and revvy revvy.

THEN, I shut it off. Pulled my FILTER because my filter clamp is the size of the 016 and I thought... maybe I'm getting some weird bernoulli crap happening here (this happens lots with Evos MAFs when you mess with the airflow TO the MAF). Essentially ran it open AMM. Same deal.

Short story long. Plugged my 016 back in and it idles crazy rich, but idles without issue.

Officially, I found that my (way back on page 1 or something) IACV IM side hose had a crack in the underside of the upper curve. I actually don't think this "caused" any of this, I think it was ALWAYS the AMM. BUT... vac leaks are obv no good.

I'm not sure why the AMM is bad or how to test it. I got no CELs and the wires seem intact. I haven't tried hitting it with MAF cleaner yet I suppose but... this particular one has no screens on it and I was hesitant to mess with it too much.

Any advice?

I've got another 012 on the way... hopefully here by the weekend.
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Old 05-10-2018, 01:24 AM   #54
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Swapping the AMM back and forth without resetting LH is going to piss it off and give you really bad readings and cause all kinds of issues.

I have seen working AMM's have all kinds of issues, I have had two AMM's that worked and ran perfect, biggest difference was one gave an AFR or 11:1 under load and the other 13:1 under load. All that means is that 20 year old parts with unknown miles in unknown shape can be a pain in the ass to deal with.

If you want you can send me your AMM and I can test on my car and see if it has any of the same issues. Either way I prefer to keep my screens on as not only does it keep large objects from damaging the hotwire it also helps straighten out the air flow for a better reading ( i am told).

Last edited by thelostartof; 05-10-2018 at 01:33 AM..
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Old 05-10-2018, 08:59 AM   #55
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I have another 012 en route. I don't disagree that what I'm doing is pissing the car off but bottom line, the ONLY time this amm idled was when I swapped my injectors and this 012 in without resetting the ECU so it was used to dealing with 310ccs and an 016. But even that had me showing 10afrs at idle.

Also this 012 was sold to me sans screens. I hadn't gotten far enough to change them over.

Regardless, I'll check with this new 012 when it arrives and see what happens?

That all said how else should I eliminate these variables? As far as I'm aware swapping the amm provides it exactly the same data stream, it's just showing different values for the same volume of air?

Last edited by EivlEvo; 05-10-2018 at 06:49 PM..
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Old 05-13-2018, 02:59 PM   #56
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Squad... here is a video of the car doing what it's doing. Sadly the replacement AMM didn't arrive on Saturday to my house so...

It's more effective with sound.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4HrkRXi3bA

It includes a startup sequence as well.
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Old 05-13-2018, 04:44 PM   #57
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Have you make sure the tps is closed and the sensor clicks when you open the throttle just barely?

For sure no pressure or vac leaks? 02 sensor for LH is new and working?
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Old 05-13-2018, 05:03 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thelostartof View Post
Have you make sure the tps is closed and the sensor clicks when you open the throttle just barely?

For sure no pressure or vac leaks? 02 sensor for LH is new and working?
The TPS indicates within spec via ohms and is adjusted correctly. I've been eyeing this as well and grabbed a new one to test that just arrived so I'm going to go check that. I also have 2 AMMs en route.

I'm 100% not a parts cannon individual but the TPS, while checking out with the ohm meter didn't seem to give the WOT indication in the OBD test.

The OTHER reason I suspected it might be related to that was that the car seems (occasionally) to drive itself when I'm off the throttle... and this seems to be confirmed via AFRs.

The O2 sensor is less than a year old which means nothing I know... and while I can test these with my OBD2 scanner or my scope at the office, I haven't done anything more than observe the voltage sweep via multimeter... which is kind of a meh test.

I've confirmed via BLT and smoke that there are no vac leaks. CONSIDER THOUGH... the original cracked hose that I found didn't show up with propane, smoke or BLT... but that hose has been completely replaced.

I'll report back on this TPS in a bit.
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Old 05-13-2018, 05:39 PM   #59
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Replaced TPS. No noticeable change.

Reset ECU. No noticeable change.

Still leaning towards AMM.
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Old 05-13-2018, 05:39 PM   #60
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The LH 2.4 turbo TPS does NOT have a wot switch. Just an idle and not idle.

If the cracked and leaking iac hose didn't show up on a boost leak test I would question the quality of the test. You should set the system pressure preturbo to 20-30psi and while not only be using soapy water to check for bubbles but also be grabbing and moving everything to simulate the moving of the engine. Also do it on a hot and cold engine. I have found minor leaks that did not cause any issues. Make sure the brake booster check valve is also checked or replaced. Along with cracking open the throttle plate and blocking off the breather hose if you are putting vac/pressure to it.
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Old 05-13-2018, 05:46 PM   #61
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Yes, the BLT was done properly. I'm not certain that the hose was actually cracked BEFORE it was removed or cracked in the process of removal. I have a silicone joiner with a schraeder valve on it. Soapy water everywhere. Look listen feel. I ran it up to 25psi.

I checked the brake booster check valve by pulling the line and capping the opening. No change.

That WOT stuff comes straight from Bentley. It's a bit vague on the testing for this stuff... I had assumed as such since I didn't feel anything physically clicking in the system but... better I mention my logic than have something go missed.
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Old 05-14-2018, 05:41 PM   #62
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New AMM is in and idle is solid. I reset LH and it's hunting around the 14.7 afr at idle.
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Old 05-15-2018, 01:50 PM   #63
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Now... when I clutch in on deceleration... the car stalls. Seems like it's flooding out? Can I assume this is ok for a learning curve or should I continue to chase issues. I have another IACV I can swap in I guess...
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Old 05-15-2018, 03:11 PM   #64
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Still sounds like something is wrong with your car. I have never once had stalling issues on my manual car even when learning. And even that my "rich" afrs when learning are less than 10 miles. After that afrs are correct at idle and load and even then never a single stall.
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Old 05-15-2018, 03:15 PM   #65
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Quote:
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Still sounds like something is wrong with your car. I have never once had stalling issues on my manual car even when learning. And even that my "rich" afrs when learning are less than 10 miles. After that afrs are correct at idle and load and even then never a single stall.
The AFRs seem fine honestly. It balances out idle and driving without issue. I'm just getting the stalls when I'm slowing to a stop and clutch in.

That said, I maybe only have about ten miles on it since reset at this point.

Thoughts on other things to check? Anybody have the testing procedure for the brake booster?
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Old 05-15-2018, 03:26 PM   #66
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Have you checked the 700/900 faq?

Stalling when braking can be a sign of a check valve and booster failing and leaking.
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Old 05-15-2018, 03:31 PM   #67
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I've actually had that stalling out issue for a while, started when I changed cam timing. Mine will go into fuel cut on decel but it doesn't always come back up in time to keep from stalling and this is on an auto.

A couple things to check outside the vacuum leak range are tps adjustment and minimum airflow. Check tps operation with a meter, not just by sound and check it hot as well.
Check your throttle stop screw. Back it out until it isn't contacting, then run it in until contact, then add 1/4 turn. The old school way of blocking the IAC and setting so it barely idles doesn't work that well on 2.4 sometimes.
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Old 05-15-2018, 03:44 PM   #68
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Quote:
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I've actually had that stalling out issue for a while, started when I changed cam timing. Mine will go into fuel cut on decel but it doesn't always come back up in time to keep from stalling and this is on an auto.

A couple things to check outside the vacuum leak range are tps adjustment and minimum airflow. Check tps operation with a meter, not just by sound and check it hot as well.
Check your throttle stop screw. Back it out until it isn't contacting, then run it in until contact, then add 1/4 turn. The old school way of blocking the IAC and setting so it barely idles doesn't work that well on 2.4 sometimes.
I have my throttle plate adjusted via bentley using the feeler gauges. The TPS got swapped with a new one, but both are confirmed working and adjusted.

Quote:
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Have you checked the 700/900 faq?

Stalling when braking can be a sign of a check valve and booster failing and leaking.
It's not related to the brakes. (edit: Meaning... it happens whether brakes are involved or not) While I agree, and will check... this just seems like the ECU isn't quick enough to pull fuel and open the IACV to transition to idle properly. If I heel toe I can get it walked down slow enough that it will catch itself and idle just fine.
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Old 05-15-2018, 04:16 PM   #69
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Anybody happen to know a way to check to be sure I haven't mixed up the TPS and the IACV plugs? I feel confident they're correct, but I need to assess that as well.

My TPS plug is black and my IACV is grayish...?
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Old 05-15-2018, 04:21 PM   #70
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I ran LH and have others without an idle contol valve on auto and manual cars without stalling and each of those cars had BOVs. Sure they were all locals so I had a hand in helping them run but either way it shouldn't die.
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Old 05-15-2018, 04:24 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EivlEvo View Post
Anybody happen to know a way to check to be sure I haven't mixed up the TPS and the IACV plugs? I feel confident they're correct, but I need to assess that as well.

My TPS plug is black and my IACV is grayish...?
Some years run different colors. Best bet is to check the wiring to the correct pins on the ECU.
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Old 05-15-2018, 07:50 PM   #72
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Alright so... this evening wasn't that productive.

I swapped to my new IACV. Same. I capped the hose to the brake vac thing that I can't think of rn. No change. I removed and capped the two nipples that head over to the EVAP canister. No change.

So... I rolled out the compressor for a BLT.

I was getting a mad hiss out of the oil dipstick where it meets the block. I don't remember this happening from before honestly. I removed the small vac hose that goes from the intake manifold to the plastic Y pipe in the factory NA oil separator and capped that nipple on the IM. I clamped the hose that I have connected to the OTHER port on that Y that runs to pre-turbo on my car.

I still got this hiss out of the oil dipstick. THEN... my stupid schraeder valve thing on my air line blew itself up... so I'm done boost leak testing for the night and thinking that my bloody next thing is a compression check? Help me out here squad... I'm pretty low on brain juice rn.
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Old 05-15-2018, 07:56 PM   #73
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And/or is this just the stupid clogged bloody oil canister thing?
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Old 05-16-2018, 09:32 AM   #74
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Hahaha... my oil cap over here dancing on my valve covers like
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Old 05-16-2018, 06:32 PM   #75
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New addendum. I swapped out my HKS SSQV (which I'm lead to believe is real but like... who even knows anymore?) for the "stock" CBV and my stalling issue is gone.

I did this merely as an "I wonder if" because my new compressor tire chuck hasn't arrived yet...

Help me out here... is the stock CBV just better at masking some other problem? Is the combo of my HKS and high crankcase pressure enough to cause stalling? WTH going on here?
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