home register FAQ memberlist calendar

Go Back   Turbobricks Forums > Mechanical > performance & modifications

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-24-2018, 10:48 AM   #1
brendon_ak
Board Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Salem, OR
Default Track Day in a 240, Need Input/Advice

Hey All,

Been some time since I've posted on here and had a killer weekend at the Thermal Club so I've got a wild hair to get my 240 up to snuff to track. Currently it has an oil leak preventing me from driving it so I've already got my first box to check. Because my brain can't stop thinking about how much I want to drive my car I thought I'd ask some of you that track or autocross your cars about how they're setup.

Here's where I'm at:
1979 245
B230FT 13mm rods, OEM gaskets/seals, new water pump, t cam, Yoshi catch can
15g w/90+ mani
T5 w/yoshi stage 2+ clutch, flat flywheel, 1pc driveshaft
lh2.4 and EZK, chippable boxes (currently stock)
Stock radiator, e fan
Denso alt, no PS or AC
boxed control arms and trailing arms, Ben's suspension all the way around, spherical rods out back, full poly save for rear axle bushings
25mm sways f/r
15x7 wheels, 215/50 rubber

That about covers the big bases. I have a set of sport seats that I'd like to try and get in there, otherwise a cheap fixed back seat would be a good idea. It seems like the only big problems are keeping the car cool, so oil and coolant are the big systems to watch. I know I'm not going to make big power and that's fine, I'm more concerned with a reliable system at this point, power can be added via turbo/cam later.

Who tracks their car, input?

Here's the car
brendon_ak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2018, 11:44 AM   #2
blkaplan
50 shades of beige
 
blkaplan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Rockville, MD
Default

A fixed back is really necessary for trackdays. Try to find a used sparco, you can get something thats expired from a track car. Fiberglass > tubeframe seat.


What oil cooler do you have? Stock radiator is fine.
__________________
www.BEIGEPOWER.com
Kaplhenke Racing Facebook
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkKratoz View Post
The only safe bet is Ben.©
blkaplan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2018, 11:47 AM   #3
culberro
Ronald Culberbone III
 
culberro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Portland, OR
Default

What track? ORP will kill brakes and tires if you're really going for it. PIR is much more forgiving.
On the track, you can starve the engine of oil under hard braking and turning. Over filling it with a 1/2-1qt of oil is a cheap fix.

Car seems to be pretty sorted except for brakes. Simple cooling ducts (hose) to the front and some better pads will help.
__________________
Cult Person. Pissing in your Kool-Aid.
culberro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2018, 11:48 AM   #4
culberro
Ronald Culberbone III
 
culberro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Portland, OR
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blkaplan View Post
A fixed back is really necessary for trackdays. Try to find a used sparco, you can get something thats expired from a track car. Fiberglass > tubeframe seat.
But it's so much more fun to be flopping around inside the car.
culberro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2018, 11:56 AM   #5
shoestring
Board Member
 
shoestring's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Beverly, 01915
Default

Put good brake pads in it. We ran blue Hawk road race pads. Not the dual duty stuff. Beyond that, don't spend any more money on the car. Spend money on track time so the driver improves.
shoestring is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2018, 12:02 PM   #6
VB242
Mojo Stealer
 
VB242's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Virginia Beach
Default

Add another rooftop carrier to even out the airflow. But for real change your brake fluid and get some pads that will take the abuse.
__________________
1980 primer JDM flares franken-242DL, 1989 silver 780 sienna rear spring nivomat delete
VB242 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2018, 12:22 PM   #7
2manyturbos
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Monroe, OR USA
Default

Are you bringing your car out to the Autocross this weekend? I race with this club as well as a few others. I encourage you to join us Sunday. It is a fun group to run with. This Sunday we are at McKay High School right off of Lancaster Drive in Salem. It won't get any closer than that.

http://www.wmclub.org/schedule/
2manyturbos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2018, 12:49 PM   #8
Uncleknucklez
bruspeed
 
Uncleknucklez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Sacramento, CA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2manyturbos View Post
Are you bringing your car out to the Autocross this weekend? I race with this club as well as a few others. I encourage you to join us Sunday. It is a fun group to run with. This Sunday we are at McKay High School right off of Lancaster Drive in Salem. It won't get any closer than that.

http://www.wmclub.org/schedule/
Do this!! Find an SCCA autocross or another grassroots event, go check it out, and sign up!

For the first couple events, find someone you trust at the event that has experience at autocross/track days to possibly pull double driving duty in your car.

This does a couple things, you get an experienced driver to watch, and they can give you pointers in real time, as well as alert you to any issues with the car that you may not even be aware of (that squishy brake pedal we learn to live with? That's actually an issue elsewhere....)


I learned tons from Autocross, keeping your eyes up is one of the more important tips, and I apply it to everyday driving, Road stuff, and dirt oval racing.
__________________
1980 242 Turbo
2004 V70R

Uncleknucklez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2018, 01:18 PM   #9
pat244ti
Moderator
 
pat244ti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Santa Cruz CA
Default

+1 to getting a sport seat of some sort. I feel like seating position and overall driver comfort/vision is one of the most important things if you are trying to focus on driving your best. Things that go along with this - getting a comfortable helmet, wearing comfortable shoes, being hydrated beforehand, eating good food before, etc.

I believe the stock oil cooler and stock radiator are totally up to snuff. The stock oil coolers are made by Setrab and are great units. I always had BMW trackday dorks at the old shop I worked at jonesing for my spare 240T oil coolers. On my Lemons car, with good airflow to the oil cooler it is extremely stable at 240 [ironic, huh] for stints up to two hours long.

I do run an oversized radiator from a Mustang [all aluminum] on that car but I have plenty of faith in the stock radiator, based off of past experience and with our other Lemons car [that does not put out as much heat without a turbo, however.] Just make sure the cooling system is nice and clean. I like keeping a spare water pump [and a thermostat] on hand just in case anything happens at the track. Spare hoses are good too.

I see you are running a Fuchs like wheel. I am also guessing you are running adapters. Two things here, one is that it is always nice to have a completely different set of wheels for the track than what you run on the street. Tracking a car can be really tough on tires, so having an extra set of different wheels with some more aggressive rubber than what you might normally run on the street is nice so you have better grip on the track, and you don't destroy your street rubber.

It's up for debate, but personally I am not a fan of running wheel adapters on a track car. I did it anyways on one of the Lemons cars, and with everything torqued properly there were no issues. I just hate having thoughts in my head on the track like "How are the wheel bearings holding up to that load?! Are these ****ers gonna snap any second?" when I am on the track when I should be focused on what is going on around me

Also, brake pads are really important as mentioned. I would invest in a good set, I like Porterfield R4's. You've got that nice GT airdam, so it would not be too hard to rig up some brake cooling ducts from that to the brake dust covers.

That just about covers it I feel like.
__________________
- Patrick
83 244ti - road race
83 244ti - rally
73 1800es - resto
08 c30 T5 6spd - daily
97 dakota 5.2 4x4 single cab short bed - apocalypse mobile
pat244ti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2018, 09:35 PM   #10
doucheNozzle
Newbie
 
doucheNozzle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: The Pitt, 15147
Default

Ditch that rear bar.
__________________

'99 V70 NAA - So Slow
'04 V70 T5A - Feels Fast
doucheNozzle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2018, 01:00 AM   #11
brendon_ak
Board Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Salem, OR
Default

I appreciate the feedback!

I'll be tracking at The Thermal Club, we have a spot there, it'll be done next winter. Ideally I'll be able to drive the car down in Nov and leave it to track till I drive it back in Mar, or at least that's what I'm telling myself.

This isn't a "track day" type of thing, more of an evolution where I can be track in the winter, and still enjoy my car in the summer, maybe? I've done so much to the car already if it turns into my track whip I'm fine with that, I'll find another 245 to make into a daily.

My wheels and adapters are a point for sure, adapters are hubcentric, wheels are lugcentric which means I have to pay lots of attention to mounting them. Thermal will swap 4 tires for $60, not bad. I'd rather do it myself but alas I no longer have a tire machine. Since I have such small wheels I'm not opposed to better rubber when the time comes, also I'm not opposed to keeping slicks or track tires at our place.

Rear bar: I've seen lots of people ditch that for the track, the flat axle will articulate more and stay more planted, while a huge bar up front keeps it planted, no?

I have a 740 oil cooler and oil filter relocator, both of which I think are causing my huge oil leak problem . Needless to say it sounds like the cooler stays.

Autocross: I just opened a bicycle shop so I'm working the morning of the 29th! I'll try and swing by, does it go all day?? I need help fixing my simple oil stuff!
brendon_ak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2018, 01:22 AM   #12
brendon_ak
Board Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Salem, OR
Default

Here's some shots of the weekend

















Here's our car next to our buddies Singer

brendon_ak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2018, 02:47 AM   #13
2manyturbos
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Monroe, OR USA
Default

Yes, the Autocross event goes from approximately 9:00 AM to 4:30 PM. Two different sessions based on the classes the cars are running in.
2manyturbos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2018, 03:57 AM   #14
Janspeed
Board Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Default

how old is your brake system fluid??
i would say if it's older then 1 year flush it. That way you will also include proper system bleeding and you are sure the brake fluid is OK.
Janspeed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2018, 09:27 AM   #15
brendon_ak
Board Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Salem, OR
Default

It was fresh as of 2016, so no, it needs to be flushed. Good thought on the brake fluid.

What about pads/rotors? I've got stock vented rotors up front. I have a RX7 kit in my parts bin, is that a good idea? I want to be able to keep my Fuchs if at all possible.
brendon_ak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2018, 12:46 PM   #16
DET17
Reformed SAABaholic
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: NW Georgia
Default

Perhaps more of a city traffic thing, but consider adding a SAAB tee in your bottom radiator hose, buy the 87/82 *C switch. Don't trust LH to keep your engine cool. Two center control wires (small) are just ground paths to select Low or High fan. Is your radiator large enough for the heat load?

Good luck.
__________________
Project "cheap thrills" build thread: http://forums.turbobricks.com/showth...67#post4211467

Feedback thread: http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=198746
DET17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2018, 01:02 PM   #17
LC4CARL
Aero challenged
 
LC4CARL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Portland, OR
Default

Were did you see all those cars? Never seen a Singer in person.

Let me know if you race, I'll come watch.
__________________
Built-not-bought: PDXdl Resto-Mod.

#carlfeague on IG.


Last edited by LC4CARL; 04-25-2018 at 01:18 PM..
LC4CARL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2018, 02:43 PM   #18
EivlEvo
Board Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Default

Cheese and RICE is this a track day or a GD car show!
EivlEvo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2018, 04:52 PM   #19
Fred Gwynne
Board Member
 
Fred Gwynne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by doucheNozzle View Post
Ditch that rear bar.
Anti-sway bar? If so then will anyone else confirm that this is a good idea? Thanks
Fred Gwynne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2018, 05:04 PM   #20
EivlEvo
Board Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Default

A number of people run sans rear bar. This typically promotes understeer in all situations but it also prevents the turn exit spins (of both the tires AND the car lol)

It can be beneficial for a novice I suppose... that said, it can be beneficial to learn when to saw the wheel and balance the power at the rear end as well.

This said... the 25mm bar at the rear is no joke. I've spent a fair amount of time going sideways, dealing with various definitions of over-steer. Putting a 25/25 on my 245 and I almost spun (dangerously spun btw) my car with a 50-60mph transition that required throttle modulation. I would suggest putting the stock bar back on in lieu of the 25mm until you find a desirable corner balance (like corner weights) FR for the car.
EivlEvo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2018, 05:08 PM   #21
Fred Gwynne
Board Member
 
Fred Gwynne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EivlEvo View Post
A number of people run sans rear bar. This typically promotes understeer in all situations but it also prevents the turn exit spins (of both the tires AND the car lol)

It can be beneficial for a novice I suppose... that said, it can be beneficial to learn when to saw the wheel and balance the power at the rear end as well.

This said... the 25mm bar at the rear is no joke. I've spent a fair amount of time going sideways, dealing with various definitions of over-steer. Putting a 25/25 on my 245 and I almost spun (dangerously spun btw) my car with a 50-60mph transition that required throttle modulation. I would suggest putting the stock bar back on in lieu of the 25mm until you find a desirable corner balance (like corner weights) FR for the car.

Thanks for the info. I'll stick to the stock bar on mine.
Fred Gwynne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2018, 11:09 PM   #22
brendon_ak
Board Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Salem, OR
Default

Good info about the sway, I'll probably keep it as is, not gonna send it right off the bat. Don't have the stock bar anymore so it'll stay as is.

My main worry more based around reliability, probably more focused on the drivetrain at this point.

Good thoughts regarding e-fan. Right now it's wired to a toggle in cabin to power it on/off in the low setting. I suppose the safe thing is to change it to run on the high setting all the time, is that a good idea?

Currently the car has an oil cooler from a 740 mounted next to the radiator. I'm thinking that the oil filter relocator and cooler lines are the cause of my oil leak but I have no proof to back that up. Oil cooler is a must, eh?

Track is The Thermal Club down in Thermal just south of Palm Springs. Our house should be done this time next year so It'd be awesome if I can drive the car down in November and leave it to track all winter the drive it back up to Oregon come spring.

The Singer was so sick!! There were two there, the blue one next to our car has a 4L motor, I followed it in the track's Cayman to watch his racing line. Dude is a very good driver. That's his garage with the M1 too. His house is almost done, it's huge! Super nice guy too, has matching E46 M3's as well as an M4 GTS for track duties.
brendon_ak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2018, 10:17 AM   #23
blkaplan
50 shades of beige
 
blkaplan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Rockville, MD
Default

16mm or 19mm rear bar imo
blkaplan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2018, 12:04 PM   #24
shoestring
Board Member
 
shoestring's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Beverly, 01915
Default

I'm with Ben on the rear bar diameter.
shoestring is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2018, 01:50 PM   #25
a1only
Board Member
 
a1only's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Leeds Maine
Default

My 240 is used mostly for track days, I’d suggest focusing on the brakes and cooling systems, I’ve great luck with Hawk HT10 pads, and ATE fluid. I flush before every event.

For the cooling system I run water with Redline water wetter in a 940 NA radiator. The oil is cooled by a large Setrab oil cooler and I use Joe Gibb oils.

I feel that a basic +T car running Ben’s suspension on 200TW tires can turn respectable lap times, keeping it simple and paying close attention to the details will keep the car reliable.

Mike
__________________
1990 245+T, m47II, k cam, 16t, Ipd gear, Dale's pulley, 940 E fan, 3" DP , Gemini wheels, Most of the Kaplehenke catalog, Koni race dampers, Ipd front sway,Mazda calipers, SS lines, Hawk pads, Momo mod78 wheel, Momo & OMP seats, Yoshifab catch can, E codes, 3.73 gear, modded G80.

84 VW Rabbit ice race/rallyX
2017 Crosstrek
2014 Mazda 2
a1only is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:22 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.