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Old 01-31-2020, 08:06 AM   #1
FreeEMSFred
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Default Bucking/cutting out, and other issues

By now I'm super familiar with all things redblock and 240/740/940, however this B6304 setup is all new to me. Driven the car a bit, but not really looked into the way they fit together at all. Hence a call for knowledge from those who have.

Symptoms:

1) Fuel pump cavitation noise under cabin floor, intermittent, constantly changing, quite noisy, some receipts show mechanics looking at it and other issues and informing owner of what the noise was. Caused by lack of or broken in tank feed pump?

2) Cutting out intermittently under heavy throttle, worse when hot, better when cool. Related to fuel supply maybe? I doubt it. Any other ideas?

3) Sunroof stayed up, so pulled motor unit, bypassed cut out switches, and closed no worries. Guessing the best way to get this aligned again is to operate the motor away from the roof to one of the extents switches that match the roof position at one extreme or the other, then reinstall and it should match up? Any tips welcome.

4) Strange noise from LHS (passenger side, RHD country) maybe to do with the aircon system, buzzing/hissing noises. Not sure what it is, stops a second or two after key off.

5) Drives like a boat, drives like a barge, my mate said guessing springs for a 940 wagon would be too soft in the front? Keen to do springs (mildly lower), shocks (max stiff, or adjustable), bushes (superpro), sway bars (big) within the next 6 months to a year.

6) Feels sluggish off the line. 3.31 rear plus box ratios = too tall in 1st. Thinking a 3.783 from a 240 or turbo 940, but the 1041K rear end is supposed to be different? Is that even true? Looks the same from outside at a glance. I think 4.1 would be too much as 1st in the box is different to 1st in an AW71/72. 3.31 might be okay with boost and a manual, but for now it makes what is not a lazy car feel lazy.

It has some other minor issues, but I know how to deal with most of those, if not all.

Any comments/tips welcome, but tips on the cutting out most welcome :-)
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Old 01-31-2020, 01:22 PM   #2
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1. Yes or the main pump going out.
2. Might be. Condition of spark plugs?
4. Could be a vacuum leak or normal operation depending on the noise. Heater controls work?
5. Wouldn't bother with stock 940 front springs. Used T6 springs were a nice upgrade to a facelift and fit older one as well. Though had to cut some because car sat too high. Good shocks and stiffer swaybars make a big difference even with stock springs.
6. 1041 and 1031 parts interchange.
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Old 02-07-2020, 04:31 AM   #3
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Thanks Lankku - Tell MrOnion and Piimae hi if you see them around :-)

1) I might try to feed the main pump from a bucket/bottle at some point, see how it behaves under a different feed scenario. Perhaps it's drawing air in along the line somewhere?

2) This is not a spark plug sort of failure, reminds me of how a nearly-completely-broken crank cable is on the redblocks - but this only happens under power, bumps/vibrations under light throttle don't cause this issue. It's violent, brief, like a loss of sync on a standalone ECU or ignitor intermittent failure, not gentle like a miss that comes and goes. Maybe this helps the whiteblock enthusiasts nail it down? I haven't looked yet, but I also don't know where to start looking. But as the owner and maintainer of 16 cars from 7 different brands, I'm sure I could suss it out eventually! :-)

4) I haven't played around with heater controls much as it's summer, but I did notice that fan on face mode doesn't flow any air, so either the ducting is off or the routing is broken. I guess I'll be having it apart to solve this one. Not urgent - temperate country/city - I want it driving right first. :-)

5) I didn't mean stock 940, I meant aftermarket designed for 940 on the assumption that the front of this car is a fair bit heavier despite alloy bonnet. T6 = FWD Volvo? or VW product? or?

6) That's what I thought I knew, but I found people online saying the 1041K was somehow upgraded from the 1041 normal before them. No idea what that meant, hence poorly articulated question. Should be obvious when I get it open. If I can find a turbo 940 diff to use, I'll just swap the whole thing in as is and it won't be an issue until later.

Sorry for delay responding - appreciate your response, but been a hell of a busy few weeks at work.
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Old 02-26-2020, 06:54 PM   #4
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What year 960 is it because that's going to limit your options on front suspension?

I know when my fuel pump was going it would nearly die and then take off again. I replaced it with a walbro in tank pump which fixed the problem. Don't forget that is a vacuum reference fuel pressure regulator as well.

All of my 960's came with a multi-link rear with 3.73 ratio. Not swap friendly.

Is the SAS pump on the left side over there?

I would start with the fuel pump and fuel filter and go from there.
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Old 03-20-2020, 05:37 AM   #5
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Gidday, it's a 92, early, solid axle, 3.31 rear with G80 that sort of sometimes works - will open it up for new fluid and/or a ratio change at some point soonish, I think. A few other chores on my plate right now :-)

I've not really tried to diagnose this more, but have driven it a bunch more and studied it. Not sure if I said above but cold it seems to not happen. Full tank it's less likely to happen. Hot day and low tank, can be noticeably worse, but still intermittent. I should definitely do some fuel system checks to nail this down.

SAS? Pretty sure the tank is just forward of the axle and LHS just like my 1993 940 wagon. Pumps? Didn't even look, but I guess one under the car, again, I think left side, and one in the tank if like the other cars?

+1 on fuel system checks/fixes to start with.

It's actually a bit dangerous - if you commit to an overtake without much breathing room and it hesitates mid-manoeuvre it could be life or death. I'm not sure I have the patience to drive this car on the open road like it is now in a safe fashion! Need to get it sorted so power delivery can be relied and banked on to deliver.
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Old 04-04-2020, 09:06 PM   #6
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Moving the 960 around the grass today because can't drive it anywhere else except the supermarket and had my head under the back looking to see what was left before I could reinstall the made-mint tow bar with 3500kg ball on a car that supports 2000kg before bending in half and heard the pump and thought "I'll have a quick look now" results:

1) you can feel the buzzing sound in the inlet hose of the pump which feels pretty soft, not under much/any pressure
2) with both hands thumb and forefinger I could fully block the inlet pipe and cause the noise to go full time leading me to believe that it's cavitation (which was what I already thought)

Next up, will dig under the back seat or where ever the access is to the top of the tank and see what I can find with respect the in-tank pump and/or any leaky hoses etc. Just updating the thread in case anyone cares and as a record.
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Old 04-05-2020, 12:07 AM   #7
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Confirmed, unplugging the 4 pin plug in the left rear guard hole caused the fuel gauge to drop, warning light to come on, and no change in main pump noise or behaviour at all. Tested the terminals and powered up the in-tank pump with key off and silent car using with 20.56V and not a sound from the tank, and no V drop from the battery indicating current draw. Unless I had bad connections which I doubt, in tank pump confirmed dead. Checked the leads I used, read 0.1 ohm end to end, so likely fine.

I have a little BMW E38 in tank pump that may fit, otherwise it's rolling no lift pump until further notice. Would probably go fine without the lift pump - I have another car I converted to EFI and put the main pump in the engine bay drawing through 5/16 line all the way from the back of the car and even the first time it primed up okay. Not a permanent solution, but better than a dead pump blocking the way and with no way to order parts right now, that's it.
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Old 04-05-2020, 04:53 PM   #8
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Not sure about a 960, but on my 244GLT the in tank pump has a separate fuse; yeterday, in order to verify whether the in tank pump was working, I removed its fuse while the car was idling and the engine died immediately.
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Old 04-06-2020, 10:01 AM   #9
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Interesting data point however there was a solid 14V at the car side of the plug interface and supplying the pump from a battery source did nothing. Here's a couple of pics of the setup:







Haven't gotten to it yet, but soon. Hopefully this week along with remounting the front plate and a couple of other tweaks.
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Old 04-10-2020, 07:05 PM   #10
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Got to this yesterday:

Big cable tie definitely stock, covered in OEM underseal underneath.

Knipex 400mm cobra FTW to loosen the nut:








Came out pretty easily, just kind of screw it out, clockwise? I forget.









Re verified dead pump with 18v direct to the pump and gave the test leads the spark test to ensure they were live and capable of carrying current. Dead as a doornail. Look up the etymology of that, sounded weird writing it, I had no idea how old that saying was. Dug out an E38 BMW 750i in tank pump from the pile and gave that 18v briefly, it spun and twisted in my hand - perfect. Also about 25% to 35% bigger but I forgot to measure before installing. Same hose size. Soldered the ring terminals on rather than cut/crimp new lucar terminals that could work loose and arc Plus soldering is reversible for both pump and tank loom. Used the factory little metal clip thingy, positioned and held with a hose clamp as sleeve designed to be in a different spot:













All mounted up, and one last trick - most of my Volvos (except the old 244 that came with carby) are a pain in the arse to fill up to the top, always filling in drips and drabs for the last like 5+ litres. I'm patient, though, and fill them to the rim every single time. In doing this repair I discovered why! 2mm hole in the top of the breather pipe that intentionally dips down to the level of the bottom of the seal for the assembly as if they don't really trust it to not leak, but yet are confident that that 2mm hole will allow some fuel to be above that line after filling stops. Well, no leaks in years of ownership and doing that every time, so I drilled out the hole to 7mm which should make it noticeably more pleasant to fill up!









Yesterday was Easter, all food shops closed, so there was literally no valid excuse to be out driving during the lock down (ordinarily could have gone to buy bread/milk/eggs for a test run), however my driveway is kinda long, maybe 50m or so, so did a bit of a drag race and brake to a stop by the footpath a couple of times and it seemed fine, but may have been fine without the fix. Noise from the main pump is gone, just a subtle hum and you could feel the vibration in the tank top/assembly subtly. Fingers crossed that fixes the cutting out issues I was facing. Only time will tell as it didn't consistently do it anyway, and colder was better, and we're entering winter, so won't be till summer that I really know, but... fingers crossed.

While I was in there doing this, over a few days, I pulled all the carpetted floor out and the moulded tray from under the floor and over the tyre, and the spare wheel, and the tools, and dusted/vacuumed the car and hosed down all the carpet pieces - result, all clean and dust free on the interior of the rear of the car - vacuumed the sides, too, too hard to remove and not too bad anyway. End result last night:








Felt good to see that last night, like some kind of reward!

I will say, the frame rails are full of the same dust. I pulled those yellow/clear bungs out and the insides of the rails are coated - will likely hose those out at some point in the middle of a summer so it can bake dry in the sun afterward, but it's not salty dust, so not a huge deal.

Back to other chores on this thing :-)
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Old 04-10-2020, 07:19 PM   #11
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Re 4:

Quote:
4. Could be a vacuum leak or normal operation depending on the noise. Heater controls work?
The hot/cold works, which is odd as the valve in the engine bay is a mess with two hoses missing, not sure what they were to/from, but will investigate in due course and tidy it up. But the direction control doesn't seem to work at all, so guessing the noises are related to that issue. Fan speed does, which is good, and I'll use that as an opportunity to learn what's wrong with my 740 ECC as we did the transistor in that and it refuses to stay running, just briefly tries to start. The feedback signal must be somehow wrong. I have another thread to dig up for that...

5. Springs/shocks/sway bars on hold until financial security back - haven't lost job yet, but wife likely to, and if clients don't pay boss, boss can't pay me. On a zero spend policy, not even cheap gas as I have enough in my fleet for the time being.

6. I bought a whole 240 sedan for the diff (and general spares), and I have a 7/9 axle with 4.1 r&p and G80 on the bench, so will probably build myself a modified G80 3.78 and then install it whole and swap the brakes across. But to do that I need to get access to the 240 which I can't right now, and buy new bearings to reassemble, ditto, can't. I do have dial and test indicators and bases and precision feeler gauges though. But I don't yet have blue - so need to order/buy some blue to check the contact patch after all of this, too.

Things I didn't mention on here:

1 gas strut at the front bad, and removed, tried to order one from IPD and had to return it as it couldn't be air transported here #Fail on my part. Will retry with direct shipping or something or find locally.

Ordered, and received, and installed a new coolant header tank, non genuine, seems okay quality to me. So that's no longer leaking and is easy to read level in again. The sensor unit under it was messy though, need to refurb that a bit with shrink sleeve and put back in, currently without it. No drama so far.
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Old 06-02-2020, 08:09 AM   #12
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Been driving this a bit, ringing the nuts off it, and not another issue, so all the hesitation and cutting out was air getting to the rail via the pump and variable pressure because of it. Good.

I noticed that the hiss from the dash goes away with increased throttle so defo a vac leak in the dash somewhere - hard to hear as the engine growls when you floor it, but under more subtle conditions it was noticeable.

Picked up the 240 sedan on Sunday and have a 4.1 700/900 diff/housing coming so I'll do some swapsies and get myself a 4.1 240 G80 and a 3.73 960 G80 and win :-)
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Old 06-03-2020, 12:43 PM   #13
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I'm no expert on the 960, but the 940's stateside have the GM built HARRISON climate control system under dash. It is well know that several of those GM diaphragms leak down vacuum.... my turbo car is notorious for "a bit into boost", and the cool air stops flowing from the central vents. Local TB legend Kjetsonaplane opined that the miserable diaphragms are the cause of this evil, and they are a notorious PITA to replace. I've not yet fixed mine..... just developed tolerance when the cool air stops flowing and it simultaneously gets me back into vacuum ASAP. Actually, that leak has probably saved me many speeding tickets!

Good luck with the Vaggen, they are the best of these RWD cars IMO.
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Old 06-24-2020, 08:49 AM   #14
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Interesting - it's possible that was global and also possible it was to put a % of local into the car for legal reasons. I have no idea.

I came here for a few reasons:

1. Torque rod bushings, I didn't explore options, but they're a bit loose and seem to be the cause of shudder under hard accel in first especially while towing - opinions welcome! I have spares from the caravan and might do the TIG welded gusset job on them while pissing around, I guess. Thread links welcome, but I'll search extensively before I do anything.

2. Steering rack is leaking out of the top input shaft seal - didn't research that yet, either, again opinions welcome in the mean time. I may have the rack from my 940 caravan floating around somewhere if seals are hard to come by or hard to install.

3. Brakes! Kinda scary, the rear locks before the front! Pretty sure I felt ABS working in a dry test another day. But tonight was wet and I could consistently throw the car sideways with the foot brake applied firmly enough. Fronts should lock first and if ABS functional none should lock. Not sure what's going on here, but G80 will be playing along at lower speeds. I can't imagine pad coefficient of friction being the main factor, but perhaps? I haven't had issues like this since the days of drums on the back of my 88 Mazda B2000

4. Diff ratios, according to the owners manual it's not 3.31 and should be a 3.91! Well it certainly doesn't feel like that. I will have to pull the cover off and do the G80 mod and the clean out and fresh 80w140 penrite progear oil and count the teeth or read the ring gear writing. Photos of manual:









Can anyone confirm? Not sure what redblock AW71s look like first gear ratio wise, but if the same as that this should melt the tyres with ease, and it doesn't. My 16v 740 sedan with 4.1 and AW72 easily does.
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Old 07-17-2020, 10:21 AM   #15
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And now slightly more sad repairs required:











Mother f***er has been reported to the police, an organisation I'm not fond of, for the 4th time. This has tipped me, though. Much more and it'll be me in jail.
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Old 02-11-2021, 11:07 PM   #16
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3.31 is actually on the diff on the label, so that's that.

As for "drives like a boat" not anymore! And I'm only started on the upgrades

Out came two bad rear shocks the size of a truck each (3.1kg compared to 1.1 for the bilstein b6 hd that went back in!)

And in went IPD lowering springs and bilstein b6 hd rear shocks and they ARE captive and thus legal.

Only did the rear so far, and car is transformed.

Many obvious improvements, more than I expected.

Front springs are waiting on front shocks which are on order for now.

Gearbox shifting in and out of OD has almost cured and with the torque rod SuperPro bushes installed it may be cured entirely. I thought that was engine/trans mounts! But rear suspension nearly fixed it and the torque rods are LOOSE, so should be better again with those done.

Rear lowering springs are lower, but not much, old ones must have had some sag Hopefully front is similar otherwise it'll be nose down a bit. See other thread I'm posting in shortly for photos. https://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=353786
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