Manual Swap no Start, Please help

[S4gasm2.7T]

Hey guys, been a while since I posted but here I go.

BTW my car is a 92 240 with LH2.4

So my AW70 finally **** the bed some months back so I decided it was finally time to manual swap. Job is basically near completion, but I cant seem to start the vehicle.

No spark, No injector pulse. My first though is maybe I damaged the CPS, luckily I had a spare new one just waiting so I swapped it out, still nothing. I pulled the cover off the EZK connector and checked for signal pulse, voltage, and ground. all seem to be present. Have voltage at the power stage. Have Voltage to the coil at both pins.

I do realize I may have messed up the flywheel timing. Im used to newer cars where the flywheel will only actually bolt on in one way. I did not realize you can actually mess these ones up. so...

My first main question so im not just chasing my ass here. If the flywheel is out of time with the the CPS/EZK, will the computers not even send a spark or injector pulse?

Thanks for your times guys. Any help is greatly appreciated.

[JohnMc]

The computer really won't know that the flywheel is out of time, it will just be firing the injectors (not really timed) and ignition when the flywheel is in the correct position. So if it's not doing any of that, I'd be suspecting something wrong with something else. Does the tach do anything while cranking?

You can check the flywheel positioning without pulling the trans - just take the starter out and rotate the motor around to TDC #1 (and... don't necessarily trust the front pulley's marking, that can rotate - double check with a straw down #1 spark plug hole) - then the 'missing' sensor holes should be in the starter opening of the block.

[Broke4speed]

This might be a silly question but did you jump the neutral safety switch wiring?

[S4gasm2.7T]

Originally Posted by JohnMc

The computer really won't know that the flywheel is out of time, it will just be firing the injectors (not really timed) and ignition when the flywheel is in the correct position. So if it's not doing any of that, I'd be suspecting something wrong with something else. Does the tach do anything while cranking?

You can check the flywheel positioning without pulling the trans - just take the starter out and rotate the motor around to TDC #1 (and... don't necessarily trust the front pulley's marking, that can rotate - double check with a straw down #1 spark plug hole) - then the 'missing' sensor holes should be in the starter opening of the block.

This was my thought process, but I just wanted to double check. And thanks for the insight, I'll check it that way before yanking the trans back out.

[S4gasm2.7T]

Originally Posted by Broke4speed

This might be a silly question but did you jump the neutral safety switch wiring?

Nothing silly about it. I know I read about this and know I have to do it. But now I'm second guessing if I did. I'll check it today. Thanks man.

[MasterBlaster]

Originally Posted by S4gasm2.7T

Nothing silly about it. I know I read about this and know I have to do it. But now I'm second guessing if I did. I'll check it today. Thanks man.

If it wasn't jumped (or plugged into the clutch pedal instead), it should keep it from cranking, not starting. If it goes spinny-spinny-spin, it's not the switch.

[S4gasm2.7T]

Originally Posted by MasterBlaster

If it wasn't jumped (or plugged into the clutch pedal instead), it should keep it from cranking, not starting. If it goes spinny-spinny-spin, it's not the switch.

Yeah Im on my lunch break and am fiddling with it now. I already had it jumped.

[S4gasm2.7T]

So I'm just messing with this and I have a question. When removing the shifter box I unplugged and removed the excess wires for the overdrive switch, it's a 3 pin plug with 2 gray and 1 white wire, it leads up to the overdrive relay. I figured it could just let it rest unplugged, but do I have to do something with that?

[S4gasm2.7T]

Also just back probed all three wires for the crank sensor and with key on everything is a ground, and while cranking still ground.

[rb92673]

Originally Posted by S4gasm2.7T

So I'm just messing with this and I have a question. When removing the shifter box I unplugged and removed the excess wires for the overdrive switch, it's a 3 pin plug with 2 gray and 1 white wire, it leads up to the overdrive relay. I figured it could just let it rest unplugged, but do I have to do something with that?

I believe there is a loop there that if unplugged will kill power to the ECU or something.

Edit: looking at the 1985 wiring diagram, it appears to kill the starter circuit. YMMV

[polaris]

Originally Posted by S4gasm2.7T

I do realize I may have messed up the flywheel timing. Im used to newer cars where the flywheel will only actually bolt on in one way. I did not realize you can actually mess these ones up. so...

For the 2.4Lh systems, at TDC the flywheel needs to be aligned so the one spot which isn't notched for the CPS is just above 9 o'clock/next to the starter. This is a B230F installed into my 1975 242 (along with a 2.4 FI system and wiring.)

http://forums.turbobricks.com/showpo...8&postcount=16





The other issues I encountered with getting the 1975 242 starting a running:

- In 1990 the switch at the back of the ignition column was changed and I needed to replaced the one in the '75 242 with a 1990-95 one from a 240/700/900 series car. Don't think that is an issue with your 1992.

- After doing the engine/transmission/FI system/wiring transplant, both the ECU (old one was one of the pink label which are known to be problematic) and the FI relay had to be replaced out. Both worked fine in September when I fired up the B230FT before pulling it from the donor. They were DOA in April when firing up the new engine. The car and pieces were stored in a damp garage for that time, which I believe contributed to their demise.

[S4gasm2.7T]

Originally Posted by polaris

For the 2.4Lh systems, at TDC the flywheel needs to be aligned so the one spot which isn't notched for the CPS is just above 9 o'clock/next to the starter. This is a B230F installed into my 1975 242 (along with a 2.4 FI system and wiring.)

http://forums.turbobricks.com/showpo...8&postcount=16





The other issues I encountered with getting the 1975 242 starting a running:

- In 1990 the switch at the back of the ignition column was changed and I needed to replaced the one in the '75 242 with a 1990-95 one from a 240/700/900 series car. Don't think that is an issue with your 1992.

- After doing the engine/transmission/FI system/wiring transplant, both the ECU (old one was one of the pink label which are known to be problematic) and the FI relay had to be replaced out. Both worked fine in September when I fired up the B230FT before pulling it from the donor. They were DOA in April when firing up the new engine. The car and pieces were stored in a damp garage for that time, which I believe contributed to their demise.

I don't think the FI relay is bad, as I can hear and feel it clicking on Without issue. But I'll probably check the ecu's just to be safe. They aren't crazy expensive

[bobxyz]

Originally Posted by S4gasm2.7T

Also just back probed all three wires for the crank sensor and with key on everything is a ground, and while cranking still ground.

The CPS is just a coil of wire, plus a shield to ground, so seeing ground on pins 1+3 is expected. The signal during cranking is fairly small, maybe 0.5volts or so on pin 2. When unplugged, the resistance across the CPS sensor pins 1-2 should be around 250 ohms IIRC.

What diag codes do you get from the EZK (socket 6)? If you're not getting any blink codes at all, then the EZK power is suspect.

Silly question #2 - where did the flywheel come from and does it have the LH2.4 60-2 holes drilled around the circumference?

Instead of pulling the starter, it might be easier to remove the CPS and look through the hole for the missing tooth / missing hole section of the flywheel.

[S4gasm2.7T]

Originally Posted by bobxyz

The CPS is just a coil of wire, plus a shield to ground, so seeing ground on pins 1+3 is expected. The signal during cranking is fairly small, maybe 0.5volts or so on pin 2. When unplugged, the resistance across the CPS sensor pins 1-2 should be around 250 ohms IIRC.

What diag codes do you get from the EZK (socket 6)? If you're not getting any blink codes at all, then the EZK power is suspect.

Silly question #2 - where did the flywheel come from and does it have the LH2.4 60-2 holes drilled around the circumference?

Instead of pulling the starter, it might be easier to remove the CPS and look through the hole for the missing tooth / missing hole section of the flywheel.

Good info on the cps, thank you.

Also I have no blink codes so power was my next suspicion. I've been working with a really ****ty wiring diagram from prodemand because my job has a subscription but it's just a garbage diagram. Just last night though I found the diagrams plus pinouts for both the ecu and ezk from Dave barton so I'm gonna be checking my pinouts today.

That being said I have a 92 so no 25amp fuse in the engine bay. Is there a fuse for the ecu and ezk? The only thing it doesn't truly show...

And I don't know what the setup I got was out of but was told it was for lh2.4 and I roughly remember there being holes for the sensor. That being said I am secong guessing everything right now so I'm def gonna check.

[JohnMc]

Originally Posted by bobxyz

Instead of pulling the starter, it might be easier to remove the CPS and look through the hole for the missing tooth / missing hole section of the flywheel.

Be careful with that sensor if you do this - the aluminum bracket that holds it is fairly fragile, and sometimes the CPS is stuck in there pretty good. If the bracket breaks, you have to pull the trans to replace it.

[ZVOLV]

I don't see how a misaligned flywheel would cause NO INJECTOR PULSE.

And you don't measure to ground with a component plugged in. You are reading the ground thru the ECU at that point.

[S4gasm2.7T]

Originally Posted by ZVOLV

I don't see how a misaligned flywheel would cause NO INJECTOR PULSE.

And you don't measure to ground with a component plugged in. You are reading the ground thru the ECU at that point.

Sorry I shall eleborate. I'm using a power probe which is basically a fancy test light and will detect both power and ground as well as a reasonable amount of voltage. So I can back probe to see what's going on while things are trying to work.

Also I agree j would think things would still pulse, just pulse at the wrong time. I'm thinking I have more of a ecu/ezk power issue.

[bobxyz]

While the engine compartment fuses are different than your '92, you can find a late '93 greenbook at ozvolvo.org/archive - search for TP32352. I'm not sure which years of LH2.4 240s used the blade fuse next to the battery. Power for coil + and the diag box (just push the button to light the LED) comes directly off the ignition switch. I'd get those working first.

[S4gasm2.7T]

Originally Posted by bobxyz

While the engine compartment fuses are different than your '92, you can find a late '93 greenbook at ozvolvo.org/archive - search for TP32352. I'm not sure which years of LH2.4 240s used the blade fuse next to the battery. Power for coil + and the diag box (just push the button to light the LED) comes directly off the ignition switch. I'd get those working first.

Tim gonna check out that link when I have some time. But my diag box definitely has power and seems to be working as it will give me 1-1-1 codes for both ecu and ezk.

EZX has both 12v constant, and 12v ignition power. Still gonna check some things as well. Also seems to be putting out ignition pulse, power stage seems to be receiving that same signal. (Granted I don't have a scope, just a power probe and was able to visually see the pulsing voltage indication) and I have power going to both sides of coil. Haven't checked fuel ecu yet.