B230+T5 3k rpm shake

[Harlard]

Originally Posted by shoestring

I will admit I raced a 244 Turbo with a new Tremec(?) T5 this year at Palmer and that was a damn fine gearbox. For a street or even DD car, though, I'd do an M90.

I'm considering it for myself

[stick70]

They're just so damn hard to find.

[Harlard]

3 month bump

Swapped in a V6 slip yoke and a stock harmonic balancer in place of the KL Racing underdrive pulley (look for the Australian made Dayco, it's shockingly nice) last night at Culberro's shop (thank u ). Vibration shifted from 2500 to 2100 with a drastically decreased magnitude (~80%). In 3rd-5th gears the shake is now a distant rumble, thus making the car infinitely more livable.

Trans likely still needs the counter shaft preload re-set, but this is definitely a step in the right direction.

[Dirty Rick]

Does it shake with the clutch pedal down in gear? (car stopped)
This would isolate the problem to the motor (likely flywheel or pressure plate) as the clutch disc and trans would not be spinning.

In neutral will include the trans (and clutch disc) but not the driveline.

Driveline shake will change with vehicle speed no matter what gear it is in, it will shake in neutral coasting.

[Harlard]

It's completely speed independent. Motor resonates a tiny amount in neutral, either with the pressure plate engaged or not. Piston+rod assemblies are all within .2g. I did not have the crank polished or rebalanced but they all seem to be pretty much dead on; last motor had these same pistons and rods with the crank polished and balanced and vibrations were the same. Clutch has been rebalanced independently. Driveshaft was rebuilt (balance, straighten, new heavy duty carrier+bearing, new u joints) at Driveline Services.

These motors resonate, and there is no practical way to cancel out the inevitable second order harmonics. The OEM solution is a big giant tuned mass damper bonded to the slip yoke on 4 cylinder T-5 applications.

The shake we are referring to is the engine's natural resonance that gets amplified by the transmission, which I suspect has a natural frequency that is very close to a redblock's resonance at 2500ish RPM.

[940 16 valve]

I chased the shifter buzz and gear clatter on mine for a while. Even tried going to the t5z style mainshaft with the tapered roller bearing and more preload wondering if it would quiet the gears. Nope.

What I did manage was to get the shift buzz under control. On the highway the sound and vibration was unbearable. In the end I just had to spend an afternoon under the car getting the driveline angles dead on. Massive difference. Can cruise on the highway again, and I don't cringe taking it into boost and revving it up to where it used to buzz the shifter like crazy.

[gsellstr]

That V6 yoke with the balancer made a big difference on the 140 as well, dropping the severity and rpm range of the gear rattle. I've got one more thing to try on mine, including swapping to a different T5 I've got, see if it helps. There's a machined retainer available for the countershaft, Ryan has one in his, that may keep that countershaft more solidly located. I have an untouched T5 on the bench to play with so I'll see if it goes in quiet, along with that V6 balancer.

I've also thought about taking a couple ounces of tire weights to put some weight on the driveline as well, see if that changes things.

[smoothdurban]

Originally Posted by Harlard

The shake we are referring to is the engine's natural resonance that gets amplified by the transmission, which I suspect has a natural frequency that is very close to a redblock's resonance at 2500ish RPM.

Wow I though this was just me. Yes I get a weird resonance at about 2600 to 3100 RPM. I ran my engine without the trans attached to see if this was caused by the tans but it seems the trans only amplifies it. The resonance is still there albeit not nearly as noticeable.


I may decide to re shim the counter shaft and replace the retainer with one of Paul’s beefier ones.
I recently watched one of his tare down videos where he torn down a new unit and the counter shaft preload was too loose.

In addition I just checked my main shaft shim with the dee works bearing retainer and have found it was preloaded too high about 9 thou. Hopefully I didn’t crush that flat roller bearing between the input and main shaft. (my fault nothing to do with the adapter)

Also I found that my T5 occasionally slides out of 5th gear after about a half dozen accel / decel cycles in 5th. I am hoping this is due to the accel / decel vibration but I am curious if anyone else has encountered this. According to tremec trouble shooting guide this could be as a result of poor bell housing alignment but I have checked that to be less the 2 thou. The speed that this seems to occur is about 75 mph which would put me at about 2500 rpm range with a 3.73 rear end and a 0.68 5th. Hmm.

[oldschoolvolvo]

What is the part number of the V6 slip yoke?

[stick70]

Sounds like I need to find a V6 yoke then. My car is back running again, and still has that resonance, though mine is probably 2800-3100 on decel in any gear. Basically stock B230f with the stock balancer. 5th sounds like a gravel grinder but it needs a new gear/syncro set anyways. If I could get rid of that ****ty resonance I'd be a happy camper.

[Harlard]

I used F19Z4841A.

[oldschoolvolvo]

Ok, gotcha. I also have this yoke on my car.
I guess it is also known as the "Aerostar" yoke.

[Harlard]

Originally Posted by 940 16 valve

.

the end I just had to spend an afternoon under the car getting the driveline angles dead on.

Yes also an issue, albeit a different one.

[smoothdurban]

Originally Posted by Harlard

I used F19Z4841A.

Originally Posted by oldschoolvolvo

Ok, gotcha. I also have this yoke on my car.
I guess it is also known as the "Aerostar" yoke.

That's the one I just installed on mine.

Will update once I get my trans back in.

[smoothdurban]

After re shimming the counter shaft to have about 4in lbs of drag torque and setting main shaft lash to a solid 2 thou preload with the v6 slip yoke there is. . . .
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......... no discernible difference.

Buzzes when I roll into boost, buzzes on decel, its only tolerable when cruising when there is little load on the system.

Big ass slip yoke damper here I come.

[klr142]

Do these yokes with the dampers change anything else or are they a direct swap? Our General Leif has some almost solid engine mounts and the vibration is severe. Part of that is to be expected, but if there's a way to reduce it a bit, that would be nice... But it is a race car, so are we hurting anything other than our brains by not doing it? Who knows.

[Harlard]

Mine was even worse before the v6 yoke. It's bad even now.

[sbabbs]

No bad nothing with my JohnV saab areo 9000 pressure plate and bmw z3 240mm clutch disc no washers and bmw getrag 265 trans and guibo and all else stock. Clutch did slip a little at first but not anymore. Probably should have put some washers between pressure plate and flywheel as disc is a little thicker then stock.

[oldschoolvolvo]

Originally Posted by klr142

Do these yokes with the dampers change anything else or are they a direct swap?

The distance between the centerline of the u-joint and the front of the damper is larger than a non-damped slip yoke.

You get the idea from this pic (thanks @Tfrasca).
https://forums.turbobricks.com/showp...&postcount=725


Transmission tunnel needs opened up if you are going to use the 4-cyl damper (on left).

The V6/Aerostar damper (middle) fits in a 240 tunnel.

[poulrais]

Originally Posted by JohnMc

I need to do that - I'm using the stock rubber 240 boot on it now. And the shifter is on an offset, so it moves up and down with the shifter throw, so in 5th it is pulling the lever down some.

And the current setup is just a sort of placeholder until I get around to putting on the narrowed Ford 8.8 I have sitting in the garage. I just wanted to get the car up and driving around before finishing up the last few things on it.

The CD009 just has some weird ratios.
1 - 3.784
2 - 2.324
3 - 1.624
4 - 1.271
5 - 1.000
6 - 0.794

Certainly not made to work well with a 3.73 rear end. Although apparently, in the Nissans they use them with a 3.5(ish) rear end - so they're spinning the motors pretty fast most of the time.

I have this 3.31 rear with matching pinion in a box if you ever want it?

[klr142]

Originally Posted by oldschoolvolvo

The distance between the centerline of the u-joint and the front of the damper is larger than a non-damped slip yoke.

You get the idea from this pic (thanks @Tfrasca).
https://forums.turbobricks.com/showp...&postcount=725
https://i.imgur.com/U45iKzI.jpg?2

Transmission tunnel needs opened up if you are going to use the 4-cyl damper (on left).

The V6/Aerostar damper (middle) fits in a 240 tunnel.

Thank you! We have no room for any of them on the General Leif, then. Our yoke is pushed almost all the way in as it sits. We'll continue living with it!

[Tfrasca]

Originally Posted by klr142

Thank you! We have no room for any of them on the General Leif, then. Our yoke is pushed almost all the way in as it sits. We'll continue living with it!

It's actually not as bad as that pic makes it look. The damper piece goes around the tail shaft housing of the transmission, so driveshaft length isn't affected very much.

[stick70]

You have any idea where one could find that 4 cylinder yoke?

[klr142]

Originally Posted by Tfrasca

It's actually not as bad as that pic makes it look. The damper piece goes around the tail shaft housing of the transmission, so driveshaft length isn't affected very much.

Nice. I guess we'd need a measurement between the u-joint mounting and the flange that would bump up against the transmission when pushed all the way in to see if it would work.

[oldschoolvolvo]

Originally Posted by stick70

You have any idea where one could find that 4 cylinder yoke?

Ford F6ZZ4841BA
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/99?...p%2F1311155862