home register FAQ memberlist calendar

Go Back   Turbobricks Forums > Mechanical > performance & modifications

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-08-2016, 01:32 PM   #126
linuxman51
BRANDSCHUTZVORSCHRIFTEN!
 
linuxman51's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: mont, AL
Default

lambda is a flag iirc. There should be more info on the injector constants as well, I think if you get that really out of whack it does odd things to the load calcs and signal as well

on some of the xdf's you can hover over the parameter and it'll have a blurb about what it is and does.
__________________
"They bum rushed them in their own crib, they drank all their beer, they partied with their ladies and they left with the trophy"

Now with in-house Dyno tuning!

Megasquirt Tuning!
Plug and play LH 2.4 Megasquirt, now with stealth mode!
linuxman51 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2016, 10:19 PM   #127
lookforjoe
Board Member
 
lookforjoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Rockland County, NY
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by linuxman51 View Post
lambda is a flag iirc. There should be more info on the injector constants as well, I think if you get that really out of whack it does odd things to the load calcs and signal as well

on some of the xdf's you can hover over the parameter and it'll have a blurb about what it is and does.
I'll look further for the flag, now that I'm out of PC hell & have the MiniPro software & USB driver issued sorted out in WindBlows8.1 - ****ing 'BitLocker" crap.

Main thing I want right now is a higher rev limit. Put the 24lb injectors in today - cold start AFR's are improved, and light / part & heavy load AFR's are much improved. No sign of any knock. I'm going to see if I can run the 3º advanced curve with this injector / MAF combo before I tweak any EZK settings.
__________________

My XR July2013 - 446AWHP @ 8K rpm
lookforjoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2016, 08:14 PM   #128
lookforjoe
Board Member
 
lookforjoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Rockland County, NY
Default

lookforjoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2016, 11:15 PM   #129
lookforjoe
Board Member
 
lookforjoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Rockland County, NY
Default

Clutch master took a ****, so had to work on that & the brake master over the weekend. Should be able to get back to tuning shortly



lookforjoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2016, 10:20 PM   #130
lookforjoe
Board Member
 
lookforjoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Rockland County, NY
Default

Running quite well, Adaptive seems to be settling the fueling disparity with the 24lb injectors. Clutch hydraulic problem was actually caused by a mechanical issue with the throwout fork & actuating lever





fingers have some wear - I'll swap out the clutch while the transaxle is out

lookforjoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2016, 09:49 PM   #131
lookforjoe
Board Member
 
lookforjoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Rockland County, NY
Default

Running it lean initially didn't work out well. Even though I didn't drive it more than 1/2 mile under very light load when it was still running the 18lb inj. - I found it missing & determined that I had lost compression, specifically on #2.



Pulled the head & found the fire rings damaged



pistons & bores look OK

lookforjoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2016, 09:52 PM   #132
lummert
Board Member
 
lummert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Portland IN
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lookforjoe View Post
Running it lean initially didn't work out well. Even though I didn't drive it more than 1/2 mile under very light load when it was still running the 18lb inj. - I found it missing & determined that I had lost compression, specifically on #2.



Pulled the head & found the fire rings damaged



pistons & bores look OK

I've never seen a head gasket do that before.
__________________
Trying to understand stupid people is like trying to pick up a turd by the clean end.
lummert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2016, 11:41 PM   #133
lookforjoe
Board Member
 
lookforjoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Rockland County, NY
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lummert View Post
I've never seen a head gasket do that before.

AFR's were 14.7 @ idle, but 15-16(!) under light load (minimal throttle, didn't push it as it felt all wrong)

Detonation does that - my compression is also 10.7:1.
lookforjoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2016, 03:15 AM   #134
Wagner
Tbricks MIG Welding Champion
 
Wagner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Suomen Åbo
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lummert View Post
I've never seen a head gasket do that before.
To have the fire rings deform like that? I'd be inclined to claim that that is the most common first symptom of detonation. If you're lucky it's possible that the detonation damage is limited to just the head gasket. If you're not lucky, it will be somewhat more expensive.
__________________

Cops pulled me over. Papers, they said. Scissors, i replied. Still i did not win. Go figure.
Wagner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2016, 08:00 AM   #135
lookforjoe
Board Member
 
lookforjoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Rockland County, NY
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wagner View Post
To have the fire rings deform like that? I'd be inclined to claim that that is the most common first symptom of detonation. If you're lucky it's possible that the detonation damage is limited to just the head gasket. If you're not lucky, it will be somewhat more expensive.
I'm going to draw a vacuum on each cylinder. If they all hold up equally, I'll likely just put it back together. If not, I'll drop the pistons. The bores look fine, but that doesn't rule out some ring damage of course.

I was expecting to see obvious evidence of bore/piston damage on #2, so I'm happy that is not the case. The 87mm "flat top" pistons are very hard to get, and required flycutting for the oversize valves. Rings will be easy enough to locate.
lookforjoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2016, 08:46 AM   #136
linuxman51
BRANDSCHUTZVORSCHRIFTEN!
 
linuxman51's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: mont, AL
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wagner View Post
To have the fire rings deform like that? I'd be inclined to claim that that is the most common first symptom of detonation. If you're lucky it's possible that the detonation damage is limited to just the head gasket. If you're not lucky, it will be somewhat more expensive.
yeah. if it was a volvo motor I wouldn't even check the pistons, seen several gaskets go like that with nothing worse for the wear.

hopefully it all checks out.
linuxman51 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2016, 10:18 AM   #137
VB242
Dinky nuts, squirrel jam,
 
VB242's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Virginia Beach
Default

Still trying to figure out why you're trying to run your motor so lean, 2.2 and 2.4 are MAF based and should only inject as much fuel that will go along with that mass of air/load signal. I wouldn't think you'd have to adjust the tables injector size too much unless your engine magically has a different stoich ratio or the air in NY has some fuel already in it. I understand low 12's give the best power theoretically but you just found out what uncontrolled detonation will do.
__________________
snabb tegelston
VB242 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2016, 10:21 AM   #138
linuxman51
BRANDSCHUTZVORSCHRIFTEN!
 
linuxman51's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: mont, AL
Default

I don't think he's really gotten it tuned yet, I doubt he wants it to run in the 16's under load...
linuxman51 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2016, 05:36 PM   #139
lookforjoe
Board Member
 
lookforjoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Rockland County, NY
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by VB242 View Post
Still trying to figure out why you're trying to run your motor so lean, 2.2 and 2.4 are MAF based and should only inject as much fuel that will go along with that mass of air/load signal. I wouldn't think you'd have to adjust the tables injector size too much unless your engine magically has a different stoich ratio or the air in NY has some fuel already in it. I understand low 12's give the best power theoretically but you just found out what uncontrolled detonation will do.
Not trying to run it lean at all - I had 18lb injectors in there, running LH2.2, AFR's were OK - 13's under mid - high load, 14.7-15.2 idle & cruise.

For whatever reason, after switching to LH2.4, it wouldn't keep an AFR under 15 as soon as any load was placed on it with the stock MAF & the 18lb injectors . As I stated, I only drove the car a very short distance around my neighborhood under very light load (almost no throttle) as it became abundantly clear it was NOT going to adapt (I have a AEM WB02 in the car). I switched to 30lb injectors & 012 MAF to confirm that fueling was the issue, and drove a few miles that way. Ran great, AFR's perfect under light load, but way too rich under mid/heavy load (12's & richer).

Anyway, I ordered 24lb Bosch injectors & put those in with the stock 016 MAF. Decent AFR's across the board, but clearly the damage was already done. Just glad I didn't drive the car any further before detecting the issue.

Didn't even get to the point of attempting any tuning yet....
lookforjoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2016, 09:20 AM   #140
lookforjoe
Board Member
 
lookforjoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Rockland County, NY
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by linuxman51 View Post
yeah. if it was a volvo motor I wouldn't even check the pistons, seen several gaskets go like that with nothing worse for the wear.

hopefully it all checks out.
Unfortunately enough detonation to break the ring lands on one of the Mahle pistons

cracks are visible here (pistons have grease from my coating the bores while it sat with the head off for a few weeks)



I pried out the broken pieces



These pistons have less than 1K miles on them since I built the motor. Should have installed LH2.4 from the start - with no control over timing adjustment, 93 r/m2 fuel & 10.7:1 compression, I guess it was inevitable something would break.

The problem now is that there are no more 87mm 34.15CH Mahle pistions out there, so I will likely have to go with forged. With my experience with Wiseco's, I'm not entirely keen on that prospect.

Last edited by lookforjoe; 07-15-2016 at 08:11 AM..
lookforjoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2016, 06:56 PM   #141
Mueller
Board Member
 
Mueller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Antioch, CA
Default

Any new progress on this?

Get new pistons?
__________________
.........
Mueller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2016, 10:05 PM   #142
lookforjoe
Board Member
 
lookforjoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Rockland County, NY
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mueller View Post
Any new progress on this?

Get new pistons?
Hey, thanks for the interest.

Yes, had to go with custom from Wiseco. No Mahles in this spec left in the world.



Just put them in last Friday along with new Clevite rod bearings.



checking the ARP bolts for correct stretch



Waiting for the head work to be completed. Intake valves recessed another .010", exhaust valves recessed .040". Based on the calculations, that, along with the increase in piston volume above the ring land & larger flycuts should get me down from 10.7:1 to 10.3:1.
lookforjoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2016, 10:26 PM   #143
Harlard
Pro Sneaker Peddler
 
Harlard's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: PDX
Default

Hope you don't plan to continue messing with LH...
__________________


Herr Harlard am Erstens

1979 242 DL

Quote:
Originally Posted by t8fanning View Post
My knob has a big chunk of steel on it
Harlard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2016, 10:50 PM   #144
lookforjoe
Board Member
 
lookforjoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Rockland County, NY
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harlard View Post
Hope you don't plan to continue messing with LH...
Yup - gonna be running LH2.4. Now that I have the injector sizing figured out (expensive test) I can get it running & then look at tweaking the timing map to optimise for my setup. Dropping the compression to 10.3:1 range will make it a little more forgiving.
lookforjoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2016, 11:35 PM   #145
Harlard
Pro Sneaker Peddler
 
Harlard's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: PDX
Default

Harlard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2016, 11:38 PM   #146
Mueller
Board Member
 
Mueller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Antioch, CA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harlard View Post
I like stubbornness once in a while!
Mueller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2016, 10:06 PM   #147
lookforjoe
Board Member
 
lookforjoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Rockland County, NY
Default

Machine shop head work completed.



Valves recessed



measured chamber volume -



they are all at 35cc, which is not enough to drop the compression down to 10.3:1



took a little out around the back wall and the exhaust



now it's 36cc



(took a tiny bit more out after this measurement to get exact 36cc)



Just have to do the same for the other 3 cylinders....
lookforjoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2016, 10:03 PM   #148
lookforjoe
Board Member
 
lookforjoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Rockland County, NY
Default

Measured the Wiseco piston pop-up & flycut volume.

.035" pop -up (must have made an erroneous measurement - this doesn't make any sense - should b .025", CH is 1.344", slightly under the 1.3445" of the Mahle's)

2.1cc flycut.
Deeper offset of ring land from piston crown, and smaller OD of the crown above the ring land (8mm vs. 6.5, and 86.15 vs.86.5) which should net me almost .5cc volume gain over the Mahles
36cc chamber volume.

Just need to do the math to figure out what this translates into in terms of revised static CR

Checked head alignment dowel depth again. Measured TTY head bolt insertion depth; even though they are longer, they still have .25"/6mm clearance in the block. I used the hardened washers anyway.



Bolt bottomed in head





Put putty in the flycut to check valve clearance (valves have been further recessed to increase chamber volume);



installed original thickness HG, torqued to 20ft/lb
after:



no contact at all, so no worries there.

Engine mostly back together. TTY bolts torqued in 4 stages: 14ft/lb, 29ft/lb, 90º, 90º.





Still have to weld a boss on the oil pan to provide a 2 point bolt down for the crank position sensor, so that will hopefully get done tomorrow, then I have to finish up the revised exhaust.

EDIT: checked Squish:

Used soldering wire, pre compressed:



after compressed:



checked against calipers


Last edited by lookforjoe; 07-15-2016 at 08:15 AM..
lookforjoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2016, 12:27 AM   #149
bobxyz
Board Member
 
bobxyz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Boulder, Colorado
Default

Wow, beautiful workmanship! Very nice.

Have you thought about adding a MegaSquirt just for logging? I think you could tee off existing or temporary sensors and get temp/map/maf/rpm and afr (with wideband) but not timing advance. Once it's tuned and happy, you could sell the MS for not much loss.
__________________
'85 245glt aw71 k-jet -> ms
bobxyz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2016, 07:22 AM   #150
lookforjoe
Board Member
 
lookforjoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Rockland County, NY
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobxyz View Post
Wow, beautiful workmanship! Very nice.

Have you thought about adding a MegaSquirt just for logging? I think you could tee off existing or temporary sensors and get temp/map/maf/rpm and afr (with wideband) but not timing advance. Once it's tuned and happy, you could sell the MS for not much loss.
Thank you.

My main concern is really the timing map. I would like to be able to log that. I do have an Ostrich 2.0 that I am going to feed into the EZK116. I'm assuming the live trace feature works in Tuner Pro with the available bins, but perhaps I'm mistaken.

Once it's up & running, and had a few hundred miles to settle in I'll have to start playing around with that.

EDIT: I do have the log box from my M4.4/TunerPro install - I hadn't thought of repurposing that for LH2.4/Tunerpro use - I may be able to get the creator to write them into the ADX (or is it XDF, I always get them mixed up)...



lookforjoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:37 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.