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Old 10-07-2011, 11:22 AM   #251
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PS: I'll bet this is going to make my lumpy cam low vac idle even more unstable, lulz. I foresee some tweaking of the idle parameters. At least they've improved idle control a lot (it seems) in MS2/3.

Might have to raise the idle speed up some more.
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Old 10-07-2011, 01:21 PM   #252
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That's right, you have some bigass cams! What's the weight of the wheel again? I have a stock flat that I weighed at 18lbs and with my cams, I can do a 950 idle around 9 inches of vacuum.
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Old 10-07-2011, 01:30 PM   #253
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It was idling at about 1100 with 10" of vac, if the idle fell much below 800 or so the vac goes straight up to 0". Heh, I may nneed to play around with the cam timing some.

The new flywheel is around 16 lbs, IIRC.

I was aplying around with the new 'test' mode in tunerstudio for the idle valve. And found that it doesn't do *anything* from 0% up to about 76% DC, and then goes from closed to full open at about 85%. I tried about all of the different frequencies too, different buzzing from the IAC, but within a % or two of the same behaviour. Luckily enough, the new firmware calculates IAC DC down to the .1% level, otherwise it would be pretty notchy if it was doing 1% increments like MS1 was (IIRC).
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Old 10-07-2011, 09:55 PM   #254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathaninwa View Post
That's right, you have some bigass cams! What's the weight of the wheel again? I have a stock flat that I weighed at 18lbs and with my cams, I can do a 950 idle around 9 inches of vacuum.
at 1100 rpm idle on stock 16v NA cams im seeing 21 inches of vac on a stock dogdish

Edit: I guess thats good?
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Old 10-07-2011, 10:08 PM   #255
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Lots of vac makes for a more stable idle at least. Add a little air, idle speeds right up. Without much vac, you have to add a lot of air to speed it up a little.

Started mine up tonight, it idles just fine. I'm starting to think the rear axle is a little bit wonky. I had it up on jack stands running about 2 or 3000 rpm in 4th - it just seemed a little 'notchy' somehow.

The Spec clutch doesn't feel especially heavy or anything.
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Old 10-07-2011, 10:36 PM   #256
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The Spec clutch doesn't feel especially heavy or anything.
thats funny, cause my Spec Stave 3+ clutch isnt heavy either??
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Old 10-07-2011, 10:47 PM   #257
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It better grab like a prom night date or I'll be pissed. I didn't spend $argh to have another clutch that can't flat shift.
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Old 10-07-2011, 10:54 PM   #258
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It better grab like a prom night date or I'll be pissed. I didn't spend $argh to have another clutch that can't flat shift.
or like poor person for food stamps...

Yours sounded better
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Old 10-07-2011, 11:13 PM   #259
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It better grab like a prom night date or I'll be pissed. I didn't spend $argh to have another clutch that can't flat shift.
like a fat kid in a candy store eh?
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Old 10-07-2011, 11:37 PM   #260
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Ah, SPEC. I wish you luck.
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Old 10-07-2011, 11:46 PM   #261
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Ah, SPEC. I wish you luck.
whats that suppose to mean
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Old 10-08-2011, 12:09 AM   #262
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whats that suppose to mean
Means I was a bit miffed by their listings for fitment for Volvo and accompanying torque holding capability. A bit more miffed that I called them, said I need it to fit X, and I need it to hold XXX ft/lbs. They said sure, and sent me a clutch. Later they changed the claimed torque holding capabilities and part numbers on their website. Inconveniently, the kit they sold me was now rated at about 100 ft/lbs less than what they told me when I bought it. Slip under anything over 75% throttle or so in 4th and 5th gear at 10ish psi and above corroborated their new published numbers.

Maybe it was just a matter of circumstance and poor timing... They are very nice there in my experience and they made my kit and shipped it nice and fast too. Like I said, maybe just a case of them not really understanding Volvo fitment.

You have a Volvo dog dish flywheel now right? What clutch part number did you order from them?
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Old 10-08-2011, 12:25 AM   #263
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Ah, SPEC. I wish you luck.
lol
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Old 10-08-2011, 12:26 AM   #264
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Quote:
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Means I was a bit miffed by their listings for fitment for Volvo and accompanying torque holding capability. A bit more miffed that I called them, said I need it to fit X, and I need it to hold XXX ft/lbs. They said sure, and sent me a clutch. Later they changed the claimed torque holding capabilities and part numbers on their website. Inconveniently, the kit they sold me was now rated at about 100 ft/lbs less than what they told me when I bought it. Slip under anything over 75% throttle or so in 4th and 5th gear at 10ish psi and above corroborated their new published numbers.

Maybe it was just a matter of circumstance and poor timing... They are very nice there in my experience and they made my kit and shipped it nice and fast too. Like I said, maybe just a case of them not really understanding Volvo fitment.

You have a Volvo dog dish flywheel now right? What clutch part number did you order from them?
John's running a jvab sooperbitchin' flywheel now, not the dogdish. I think it;s some sort of saab pressure plate and and clutch.

Spec has an interesting way of rating their clutches, but normally they're pretty good about talking to you if you have an issue. Give Danny a call.
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Old 10-08-2011, 12:39 AM   #265
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You have a Volvo dog dish flywheel now right? What clutch part number did you order from them?
Yes, but I dont remember which number cause Lawrence ordered it for me but its the stage 3+ kit

Edit: if the car makes 300+ hp i'll be happy. Im not trying to make a point since you, nathan, and kenny have already done that im just wanting a fun DD with good highway millage wise. Hopefully Kenny can make that happen next weekend
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Old 10-08-2011, 01:01 AM   #266
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still LH?
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Old 10-08-2011, 01:02 AM   #267
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Quote:
Originally Posted by linuxman51 View Post
John's running a jvab sooperbitchin' flywheel now, not the dogdish. I think it;s some sort of saab pressure plate and and clutch.

Spec has an interesting way of rating their clutches, but normally they're pretty good about talking to you if you have an issue. Give Danny a call.
Yeah that is true about spec -- they are very nice there as mentioned. Also yes they have an interesting way of rating their clutches... Like I said, a bit of a case of circumstance for me and it was over a year between me buying the clutch and finding its limits so I didn' feel like being a douche and complaining to them about it that much later. Felt like the staute of limitations had expired on that one and I wrote it off. The fact that between the time I ordered and the time I discovered slip city they changed their ratings on part numbers was kind of frustrating to me.

I wasn't clear about the digdish question -- I meant that for Aron as I did see that John has the Saab stuff now. Still wondering what part number clutch Aron got for his Volvo dogdish flywheel, but that may be better directed to him in his thred. Didn't mean to clutter up your thread John -- sorry.
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Old 10-08-2011, 01:49 AM   #268
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Did you try adding a little ebrake during the wheel spin? The nothcy could be the axle rocking forward and back while it spins with the motor. I had the same thing on mine while testing my drive line.
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Old 10-08-2011, 09:47 AM   #269
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Cameron - this is a 240mm (9.5") Saab 9000 clutch, stage 2+. Supposed to handle 509 ft lbs of torque, although now I wonder where they come up with those numbers? The clutch pedal doesn't feel that heavy, hopefully the added diameter is giving me the torque handling capacity, not more clamping?

Nathan - I'm not that worried about the rear axle, I was just trying to spin the drivetrain up while it was on stands and see if I could see where the decel vibration in 4th and 5th was coming from.

Revving it in place, it does seem smoother. I was getting some vibration prior at higher RPM's, that sort of kept me from being too anxious to plumb the upper reaches of the RPM range (seemed like above 6000 or so it would sometimes buzz the T5 shifter). Just a stock dogdish and red Clutchnet PP - never balanced as a combo. I got the JVAB and Spec balanced, well worth the $60.

Then I drained the oil out of the engine, gonna go out and get one more bottle of Lucas break-in oil - lots of zinc to help those lifters break in, use that with some Valvoline VR-1 (also lots of zinc). Maybe I'll end up with a galvanized inside of the motor? I'm just paranoid about flatting a cam lobe for no good reason.
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Old 10-08-2011, 10:21 AM   #270
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I owe you a beer for doing that flywheel first
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Old 10-08-2011, 12:36 PM   #271
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not here to clutter either but I think this is the part number SO023 good for 347 torq. Lawrence said we ordered 3+ but the spec says its a stage 3. Im curious to see if the clutch will hold hold 20 more pounds or if im screwed
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Old 11-11-2011, 04:11 PM   #272
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Way overdue SE-X postscript.

Car was very weak in lower RPM ranges, and not pulling that hard particularly up high. Ran some horrible times at the track Fri night - 16@88, 15.5@89. Obv. not working right, I gave it a rest for the night.

Next day at the dyno I borrowed a timing light and double checked the timing for the 3rd time - right as rain, not retarded timing making it so pitifully weak. Next I played around with the cam timing some. And bit by bit got it to come to life some. I'd timed those Schneider reground cams straight up by the timing marks orginally, but it felt the best (driving) with the intake and exhaust cams timed away from each other as far as they would go. Got a little idle vac back, lost a little of that no-torque feeling down low in the RPM range, and it still felt pretty damn peppy once it actually got into the cam's rev range (although the peakiness of the cams also affects the turbo spool).

Not totally dysfunctional anymore, let's stick it on the dyno! Kenny got a 279 right off the bat. PLayed with the fuel. Got a 280. Played with the fuel. Got a 281. Called me over - the fuel maps were starting to look like Mount Everest on the high boost end. I didn't think I was running out of injector capacity - 1000cc's, running on E85, should be able to make more than 280 hp (made 304 last year). Se we grabbed a flashlight and stared at the fuel pressure gauge (some idiot bought a black faced gauge, then mounted it on the left strut tower, underneath the intake manifold, where it's really dark). About 50 psi at idle, run starts, boost climbs, fuel pressure climbs, it hits about 4000 and really starts to take off, the pressure climbs up to about 65 psi, then the needle starts shuddering and the pressure falls back to a twitchy 40 - 45 psi or so. CUT! Out of fuel capacity.

In retrospect, I may have simply set the base fuel pressure a little too high? And once the boost hit higher levels, the pump couldn't supply the required volume at the increased pressure. Or maybe the fuel filter was just a little dirty? In any case, not much of a point in trying to stage 0 the stock fuel pump system when I'm going for over 300 hp on E85. So I just turned the boost back down, it's been a 270 hp beast since then.

I did, however, get a Deatschwerks 300 LPH in-tank in the mail yesterday. I'll try replacing the stock in-tank with that, and bypass the external. Should hopefully be enough to feed the engine and get everything operating up to the level of whatever the next bottleneck is (probably the log manifold still).
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Old 11-11-2011, 04:21 PM   #273
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A nice fuzzy pic of the dyno charts. Just as it started to get interesting, pffffft - out of fuel:


Video of one of the pulls:

Laggy, gets going finally.

Other than the fuel pump, the other thing I plan on doing with the cams is actually degreeing them in according to the data card. I got a cam degereing kit on eBay - big degee wheel, indicator dial, etc. I'll set them according to spec and see if they are any less laggy feeling like that. Perhaps they're just not reground very well on OEM centers - so lining them staight up based on the timing marks just isn't what they need. Hopefully that will make them sparkle.

Otherwise, I might stick my stock cams back in. These might just be a little too on-off for DD use.
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Old 11-11-2011, 06:33 PM   #274
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I have been back and forth with cams a couple times myself. I'm anxious to get running again now that I have the solid conversion and one of my sets of racey cams installed. But really I am sure I will miss the torque from the stock or PZ cams. I made my 578hp on stock cams. They really do make a nice turbo cam especially for the street.
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Old 11-11-2011, 06:43 PM   #275
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I have a set of PZ cams, but I broke the snout off one of them. I keep meaning to take it by a MS to see if they could drill it and place a plug in it for the cam gear to ride on. Seems like it could work.

The racier cams I got might be a little much for the exhaust side of my motor now. I may have raised the peak RPM higher than the log manifold can flow for now. Which is a bad trade off, loose low end torque because of the cams, but then not gain the high rpm power because of the exhaust manifold.

If they don't perk up a fair amount with a proper degreeing, I'll just put the stockers back in. It is pretty fun right now, though, as it goes past that 3800-ish RPM range with the pedal down. It just sort of suddenly wakes up and scoots hard.
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