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240 High-Amp Alternator Belt Idler Pulley Project

just a heads up if you intend on putting a 250amp alternator you are going to need a get a bigger gauge power wire and ground to your battery I learned that lesson the hard way
 
Markos Simopoulos said:
just a heads up if you intend on putting a 250amp alternator you are going to need a get a bigger gauge power wire and ground to your battery I learned that lesson the hard way
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Yes, this is important.

I use big cables directly from the alternator to the battery. Power AND ground.

Here's a cable size chart below.
Dave
 

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Yeah, that's definitely a key thing to upgrade. I've already got #4 on the 140 and wagon, #2 on the Dodge since it's around a 5' run, but there's also a winch involved so every little bit counts.

Stereo amp wiring from the yard FTMFW! $1 for 15' of #2 or #4....hell yeah.
 
Not a lot of progress to report. Just putting on miles. So far no issues.

Here's a progression of this bracket I'll share. I began with cardboard (no pics of that) and then moved to the below plastic model to semi-fine-tune the fit.

Then there's the steel bracket I had made, which is on the car.

No solid plans for this part yet, but if I decide to go further, I was playing with this in CAD. This design adds more locations for the idler pulley and more locations for the top adjusting bracket.

Plus is you're wondering about the slotted holes, I thought that might help for my future 16V B230 motor (if I ever finish), since the fatter crank timing sprocket moves the crank pulley forward a bit. Plus maybe it helps to have adjustability if alternators are swapped around, since there are some differences between Bosch and Mechman and probably others.
Dave
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None of these are "mystery alternators."

gsellstr said:
Eric knows the dirt on them since he helped develop them. I think there was a different in regulator plug on the back between the 140 and the 170's. Mine is also cast DR44 on the front. I believe the ones MM was selling were hopped up 140's. but honestly it's been too damned long. lol

I'd rock a 140 or a 170 on the Dodge anyway, step up from the 116 it has. lol
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The unit on Daves car an an AD230 (not the unit he showed in his post) based unit based on the pic and my memory of the progression of the design.

The unit on Garys car is a DR44 based unit. The AD230 is a smaller diameter stator than the DR44 and AD244 versions, but visually very similar. Garys unit is a modified DR44, with modification for internal (as opposed to PCM) voltage regulation, low drag bearings, a little machine work, and a couple other tweaks.

As for the hairpin units, they did exist when these were built, but we were still developing the models at that point in time, and finding a suitable case to fit the Volvo builds wasn't cost effective. Also was not going to be much of an improvement as the real limit is the belt, not the ability to produce power in the package size.

Gary- For your Dodge, talk to me about this aside from this thread. I may have a very cost-effective solution for you to get the power you want for a very reasonable price IF you need the unit I think you do.
 
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dbarton said:
So yours may be a mystery alternator too.

I think there was a serious lack of solid info when these Mechman were offered. I was told the one I bought was a 140a unit (although I never got any documentation or a part number). It was $300. You were told you have a 170a unit.

I found the below info in a Mechman catalog online. That's my exact alternator (as far as the case anyway). G series 3-phase unit available in 240 or 270 amp.

I asked Mechman and they don't seem to know either. No one knows squat.

I'm not obsessing over it, but just curious. Maybe I'll sell it, but who wants an alternator with so many mysteries.
Dave
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Too? There's no mystery, your unit is an AD230. Your unit was custom built for your application, that's why there isn't a lot of information. There was no part number, again, custom built for your application. You got a 170a unit, as tested before shipping.

Garys unit is a DR44, modified for his application.

Mechman does a lot of one-off builds, depending on what the customer wants and what will fit their application. I wasn't in the habit of assigning part numbers to each unit. You can't expect someone to remember a one-off built 9 years ago, and even if they did, after the way you treated everyone involved in the original purchase and subsequent **** show of you blaming myself and Mechman for your failure to follow installation instructions and your defective fan controller, I doubt anyone is going to bend over backwards to help you.

SO what do you want to know about your alternator Dave?
 
badvlvo said:
Too? There's no mystery, your unit is an AD230. Your unit was custom built for your application, that's why there isn't a lot of information. There was no part number, again, custom built for your application. You got a 170a unit, as tested before shipping.

SO what do you want to know about your alternator Dave?
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Thank you Eric,
This is more than I ever knew before, so I appreciate the clarification. AD230, huh? I'll have to brush up on what that is. It worked fairly well (better than the Bosch units up to that point), but it just couldn't keep up after I went with my current big fans and AC. I was having to keep the idle above normal with that heavy load to keep voltage above 13. The new 6 phase definitely keeps up (night and day difference), but as you say the belts are the limiting factor.
Dave
 
badvlvo said:
None of these are "mystery alternators."
Click to expand...

Mine was. I was trying to get ANY info from Mechman for many years after you left just cause I was curious about what it was. They offered nothing. I assumed they maybe didn't know what it was (being one-off makes sense now) or if they just didn't want to talk about it. They would never say.
Dave
 
Looks like a good setup. The suggestion I have for you to consider is the Gates dual V belts. They sell V belts that are two V belts joined together. There is a measuring tool they use to get the correct spacing. These are used on trucks. I have a 1999 gates catalog that features them. I never tried one because I couldn't find one short enough. I did find the correct spacing that fit the Volvo dual pulley. With the added length of the tensioner there may be one that fits for you.
 
dl242gt said:
The suggestion I have for you to consider is the Gates dual V belts. They sell V belts that are two V belts joined together. There is a measuring tool they use to get the correct spacing. These are used on trucks. I have a 1999 gates catalog that features them. I never tried one because I couldn't find one short enough. I did find the correct spacing that fit the Volvo dual pulley. With the added length of the tensioner there may be one that fits for you.
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The Gates website doesn't talk about a Dual V-Belt, but they show "PU V-Belts" (pic below). Page here: https://www.gates.com/us/en/power-transmission/v-belts/pu-v-belts/c/114

Maybe the PU belt is their new name for it. As far as length, they begin at 1000 mm, so it could fit my application (I'm using 1060 mm now). The Gates site doesn't seem to have the width specs you have in your catalog.

I do see some places offering Gates "Dual V-Belts" for sale, but so far none of those list any width specs. I like the style, but I have some doubts about it fitting our pulleys, since our pulleys have a fairly wide wall between the belts.

There are some places offering things like Gates Powerband Joined Belts and Polyflex JB belts, which are the same type of belt. But again there is little info on the width specs. http://www.biedlers-belts.com/powerband-joined-belts.html/ And at about $70 I don't want to buy something just to see it up close.

Here's a 300-plus page Gates PDF catalog I found dated 2010: https://www.bearingsandindustrialsupply.com/pdf/heavy_duty_vbelt_drive.pdf It's extensive and it probably has the info you found. I'll look at it closer later.
Dave

gates-2-11m1500jb
 
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For a while several companies, including Gates, were selling matched pairs as well. I have to go that route on the Dodge, seen some large variances on the same part number, but the MP seem pretty damned close.
 
That is what I meant. However, the version I am referring too was also flat on the back of the belt. It may be that it is the powerband version. I went to my local truck parts supplier and that is where we tried a few belts and one type fit the alternator pulley I brought with me.

The front of the catalog has a section on using their tool to get the spacing and depth proper. They are different colored pieces of plastic to fit up to the pulleys.
 
gsellstr said:
For a while several companies, including Gates, were selling matched pairs as well. I have to go that route on the Dodge, seen some large variances on the same part number, but the MP seem pretty damned close.
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Good to know. I've seen those variances too. I returned some that were not very close to each other.
Dave
 
dbarton said:
The Gates website doesn't talk about a Dual V-Belt, but they show "PU V-Belts" (pic below). Page here: https://www.gates.com/us/en/power-transmission/v-belts/pu-v-belts/c/114

Maybe the PU belt is their new name for it. As far as length, they begin at 1000 mm, so it could fit my application (I'm using 1060 mm now). The Gates site doesn't seem to have the width specs you have in your catalog.

I do see some places offering Gates "Dual V-Belts" for sale, but so far none of those list any width specs. I like the style, but I have some doubts about it fitting our pulleys, since our pulleys have a fairly wide wall between the belts.

There are some places offering things like Gates Powerband Joined Belts and Polyflex JB belts, which are the same type of belt. But again there is little info on the width specs. http://www.biedlers-belts.com/powerband-joined-belts.html/ And at about $70 I don't want to buy something just to see it up close.

Here's a 300-plus page Gates PDF catalog I found dated 2010: https://www.bearingsandindustrialsupply.com/pdf/heavy_duty_vbelt_drive.pdf It's extensive and it probably has the info you found. I'll look at it closer later.
Dave

gates-2-11m1500jb
Click to expand...


Few things:

Those belts will require machining on the pulleys. It would be easier to just move the damn alternator to the other side.

If you really want to run that, which will actually have less surface area than the stock arrangement, go buy a pulley for that style of belt and machine your stock pulleys to match.

If you upgrade to the BMW electric power steering pump, youll need to upgrade to a 500 amp alternator.

Alternatively:

Just get a proper sized fan, one of these https://derale.com/product-footer/electric-fans/fan-controllers/pwm-controller/pwm-fan-controller-push-in-probe-detail and a normal 100-140 amp alternator and move on with life
 
Lord_Athlon said:
Few things:

Those belts will require machining on the pulleys. It would be easier to just move the damn alternator to the other side.

If you really want to run that, which will actually have less surface area than the stock arrangement, go buy a pulley for that style of belt and machine your stock pulleys to match.

If you upgrade to the BMW electric power steering pump, youll need to upgrade to a 500 amp alternator.

Alternatively:

Just get a proper sized fan, one of these https://derale.com/product-footer/electric-fans/fan-controllers/pwm-controller/pwm-fan-controller-push-in-probe-detail and a normal 100-140 amp alternator and move on with life
Click to expand...

I'm not considering such extremely different belts. Just bringing along the discussion. I guess you're a discussion killer.

So, discussion killer, I'd like to hear what YOU think a proper sized fan is. 15 inch 940? And why you think my fan is not proper. Remember that my fan is PWM controllered, so it runs as low as 20%.

The 65 amp rating on that Derale controller makes me laugh (below). My current PWM controller is 125 amps.

So for example, my 240 mile drive yesterday from Austin to North TX in 100 deg mid-day heat included a nightmare 2 hour freeway closure. So during that 2 hour crawl my external temp reading went from 102 deg to 138 deg. My oil temp went from 200 to 250. Glad I had AC and I'm glad I DIDN'T have a 940 fan, or I guarantee AC would have to go OFF and I seriously doubt I could have kept the car from overheating without turning the heat on or simply getting off the road and shutting things off.
Dave
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Strange Dave. I've got the 940 fan, no issues running the AC in 110* ambient in traffic, other than the AC doesn't work as well (converted system BS). Never had an issue with overheating and I'm only running the fan on low. Only overheating I had was a 2 mile long grade plus several high throttle pulls while tuning, with the AC on due to 102* ambients. Turned the AC off, heat on, fan bumped to high and it was down to normal in about 45 seconds.
 
gsellstr said:
Strange Dave. I've got the 940 fan, no issues running the AC in 110* ambient in traffic, other than the AC doesn't work as well (converted system BS). Never had an issue with overheating and I'm only running the fan on low. Only overheating I had was a 2 mile long grade plus several high throttle pulls while tuning, with the AC on due to 102* ambients. Turned the AC off, heat on, fan bumped to high and it was down to normal in about 45 seconds.
Click to expand...

Guess I should mention that I have my fan set to run at 50% when the AC is on, which is 1000 fan rpm. Then of course if the controller sees coolant temp increasing, it will slowly increase speed to compensate. 100% would be 2000 rpm.

So my pont is that I may not need the extra fan capacity. But I like having it just in case it comes in handy. Better than needing it and wishing you had more fan.
Dave
 
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Absolutely! I have mine setup on a switch in the radiator for low speed but I also have a manual switch on the dash. Factory fog light switch, repurposed with an 'Off' position for full auto operation, and a manual low and high option as well. Always use the manual setting at the track or when flogging, auto during 95% of my driving.
 
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