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Old 02-25-2021, 07:25 PM   #1
christopher420
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Exclamation Bosch Breakerless Ignition Conversion to points and condenser

Iím wondering is there a way to convert a Breakerless Ignition to points and condenser and I know some people want it the other way but Iím trying to get an 123ignition distribute for my b23e with k-jet and was wondering whatís everything that I have to do to make this conversion work as I am having lots of ignition issues with my distribute/ignition electronic module
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Old 02-25-2021, 08:43 PM   #2
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No, just no. Troubleshoot your breakerless ignition. It's basically a points and condenser system without points. Get a Haynes or Bentley manual and you'll see they are straight forward to figure out. It's usually simple stuff like broken or decayed wiring. Corroded connections are very common. There is a ground connection for the black box that should be checked. On a n/a car the ground is behind the bracket for the washer fluid. On turbos it's under the bracket that holds the black box.
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Old 02-26-2021, 04:56 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by dl242gt View Post
No, just no. Troubleshoot your breakerless ignition. It's basically a points and condenser system without points. Get a Haynes or Bentley manual and you'll see they are straight forward to figure out. It's usually simple stuff like broken or decayed wiring. Corroded connections are very common. There is a ground connection for the black box that should be checked. On a n/a car the ground is behind the bracket for the washer fluid. On turbos it's under the bracket that holds the black box.
I have the green book and have replaced wireds and clean the connecters its just I accidentally bend one of the reluctor arms, this happen when the engine was turning while the distributor cap is removed and the distributor cap retainer clips are in a position that interferes with the reluctor arms. And one bent

There is supposed to be a plastic dust shield to help but wasnt there then I got the car but I did got the arm bent back in place and got the car going just some days it will turn over like nothing and some other days its a **** to start, when it doesnt wanna start I have to pop off the distributor cap and play with the Arms and or take the distributor off and then spin the bottom gear fast until I can hear a spark in the cap and then put the cap back on and then try again and it will turn over just fine thats after I re-time If I have the distributor off

Thats kinda why I wanna switch to the 123 ignition system
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Old 02-26-2021, 06:12 PM   #4
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The trigger wheel is supposed to have a certain distance gap. I think it is about .010". You can use a feeler gauge to check it. Also the part was still available as was the dust cover. You also want to get out an ohm meter and check the resistance of the impulse sender. They can fail when they get hot and will be out of spec for the resistance.

The 123 ignition is a great system. However, the money it's going to cost you is a lot more than just fixing what you have. I'm sure if you put a thread in wanted you'll have someone sell you what you need.

Last edited by dl242gt; 02-26-2021 at 06:13 PM.. Reason: spelling correction
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Old 02-26-2021, 07:53 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher420 View Post
I’m wondering is there a way to convert a Breakerless Ignition to points and condenser and I know some people want it the other way but I’m trying to get an 123ignition distribute for my b23e with k-jet and was wondering what’s everything that I have to do to make this conversion work as I am having lots of ignition issues with my distribute/ignition electronic module
I don't understand why you would need points if you want to use one of these distributors shown below. Is this what you're looking at?

https://123ignition.com/product/volvo-b21-b23-4-r-v/





Unless I'm missing something here, this is a drop-in system that would replace both your old distributor and the breakerless control module. This new 123 distributor for sure wouldn't have points in it.
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Old 02-27-2021, 03:05 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dl242gt View Post
The trigger wheel is supposed to have a certain distance gap. I think it is about .010". You can use a feeler gauge to check it. Also the part was still available as was the dust cover. You also want to get out an ohm meter and check the resistance of the impulse sender. They can fail when they get hot and will be out of spec for the resistance.

The 123 ignition is a great system. However, the money it's going to cost you is a lot more than just fixing what you have. I'm sure if you put a thread in wanted you'll have someone sell you what you need.

Yea it has 0.25 mm of a gap on it but on further notice the wires inside the sleeve was done (the only 2 wires that I didnt check ever for the last 2 months) the 2 wires that go to the distributor from the control unit. Will be replacing that one soon and hopefully that was the problem


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Originally Posted by Duder View Post
I don't understand why you would need points if you want to use one of these distributors shown below. Is this what you're looking at?

https://123ignition.com/product/volvo-b21-b23-4-r-v/





Unless I'm missing something here, this is a drop-in system that would replace both your old distributor and the breakerless control module. This new 123 distributor for sure wouldn't have points in it.
I wanna use the 123 ignition as its to replace the points and condenser setup but wanna know how to do the conversation for a b23e that has a k-jet , and get it to still have the cold start injector to still be functioning with the 123ignition
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Old 02-27-2021, 09:52 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher420 View Post
Yea it has 0.25 mm of a gap on it but on further notice the wires inside the sleeve was done (the only 2 wires that I didnt check ever for the last 2 months) the 2 wires that go to the distributor from the control unit. Will be replacing that one soon and hopefully that was the problem

I wanna use the 123 ignition as its to replace the points and condenser setup but wanna know how to do the conversation for a b23e that has a k-jet , and get it to still have the cold start injector to still be functioning with the 123ignition
It sounds like you are overcomplicating the conversion. If you use the 123 dist. you would not convert yours to points/cond., the whole point is to get rid of that.

The ignition system is not interconnected with the fuel system on K-Jet setup, so why would you think it would affect the cold start valve? The thermal time switch controls that, it's a "mechanical" system - not electronic/ECU governed. The question I would be asking is whether the advance curve is appropriate for Fi vs. carb setup...
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Old 02-27-2021, 05:56 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by lookforjoe View Post
It sounds like you are overcomplicating the conversion. If you use the 123 dist. you would not convert yours to points/cond., the whole point is to get rid of that.

The ignition system is not interconnected with the fuel system on K-Jet setup, so why would you think it would affect the cold start valve? The thermal time switch controls that, it's a "mechanical" system - not electronic/ECU governed. The question I would be asking is whether the advance curve is appropriate for Fi vs. carb setup...
I noticed yesterday on the 123 ignition site there are a few different distributor models they offer for the B21, B23 etc... the one I linked seems like it has a few preprogrammed advance curves to choose from, but there are more deluxe models that allow for laptop tuning and defining your own curves via USB connection to the distributor. Pretty nice for retrofitting into an old carbed car (or K-jet car in this case).
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Old 02-28-2021, 12:13 PM   #9
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I think the basic 123 distributor comes with ~8 different ignition curves that you can select.
The programmable one would be neat to use, as you can fine tune it to your setup, or use it with boost.
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Old 02-28-2021, 07:21 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lookforjoe View Post
It sounds like you are overcomplicating the conversion. If you use the 123 dist. you would not convert yours to points/cond., the whole point is to get rid of that.

The ignition system is not interconnected with the fuel system on K-Jet setup, so why would you think it would affect the cold start valve? The thermal time switch controls that, it's a "mechanical" system - not electronic/ECU governed. The question I would be asking is whether the advance curve is appropriate for Fi vs. carb setup...
I didn’t know that they weren’t connected with each other as I’m new to Volvo’s and this old girl

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duder View Post
I noticed yesterday on the 123 ignition site there are a few different distributor models they offer for the B21, B23 etc... the one I linked seems like it has a few preprogrammed advance curves to choose from, but there are more deluxe models that allow for laptop tuning and defining your own curves via USB connection to the distributor. Pretty nice for retrofitting into an old carbed car (or K-jet car in this case).
Quote:
Originally Posted by culberro View Post
I think the basic 123 distributor comes with ~8 different ignition curves that you can select.
The programmable one would be neat to use, as you can fine tune it to your setup, or use it with boost.
I was thinking of getting the BT one because of tuning capabilities And just in Reality need a more trustworthy ignition system as I’ve broken down multiple times just over the ignition system

Last edited by christopher420; 02-28-2021 at 07:22 PM.. Reason: Spelling corrections
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