home register FAQ memberlist calendar

Go Back   Turbobricks Forums > Mechanical > maintenance & nonperformance

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-12-2019, 04:22 PM   #1
rstarkie
Board Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Hamilton, Ohio
Question Turbo suppliers

1994 940 282K

It would appear that I am in the market for a turbo cartridge for a 940. While I am not excited about the task of replacing the cartridge on this car the original has certainly given good service. I bought the car eleven years ago with 175K and it has been a good one.

I am working down a list of maintenance items the last couple of days. I replaced the waterpump and the oil cooler hoses today. After startup I noticed some blue smoke from the exhaust, but it seemed to clear up as it reached operating temperature.

The car was still on jack stands and the hood was up. I saw smoke coming from area of the clamp that secures the turbo to the manifold. I shut the car off and then noticed a small puddle of oil. It was dripping off of the bottom of that clamp. I can't imagine where it would be coming from other than the seals in the turbo. It seems to be very odd timing. The car hasn't not been losing beyond what has been its normal quart every 1000-1500 miles.

I will be doing some more exploring as well as removing the hose to see what kind of play is evident on the shaft.

Assuming I need a new cartridge (and deciding I want to replace it) where have any of you been buying turbo replacements?

Thanks,
Randy
rstarkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2019, 05:25 PM   #2
Harlard
80/20 speed parts club
 
Harlard's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: PDX
Default

Unless the wheels have not made contact with their housings, rebuilding it at home is straightforward enough. Otherwise you can upgrade to a good used 15g.
__________________


Herr Harlard am Erstens

1979 242 DL

Quote:
Originally Posted by t8fanning View Post
My knob has a big chunk of steel on it
Harlard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2019, 05:41 PM   #3
rstarkie
Board Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Hamilton, Ohio
Default The option of rebuilding...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harlard View Post
Unless the wheels have not made contact with their housings, rebuilding it at home is straightforward enough. Otherwise you can upgrade to a good used 15g.
Thanks. I will keep that thought in mind. I have rebuilt one before on an 89 740. I was unhappy with the resulting whine after reassembly.

Any recommendations on finding a supplier for the kits?
rstarkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2019, 05:44 PM   #4
Dirty Rick
Board Member
 
Dirty Rick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Cornholio, OR
Default

Did you verify the turbo drain is not obstructed?
__________________
I don't know who I am when I am somebody else.
Dirty Rick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2019, 05:57 PM   #5
rstarkie
Board Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Hamilton, Ohio
Default Drain obstruction

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty Rick View Post
Did you verify the turbo drain is not obstructed?
I did not know that was a possibility. With the size of that pipe I would not have thought of it.

I think it is odd that I don't have huge clouds of smoke exiting the exhaust, but yet have oil suddenly dripping from the clamp area.

I have to assume it is just coincidence that this was on the first start up after replacing the oil cooler hoses.

I will put the drain obstruction on the list of things to check out. Thanks.
rstarkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2019, 06:56 PM   #6
nitroboie
Board Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Charlotte, NC
Default

I've purchased a rebuild kit as well as a complete cartridge from gpopshop. The cartridge worked well, never got around to the kit, but I've only heard good things about their products.
__________________
'90 244
'94 945T ipd cam, springs, sways, brace, 16T, TLAO chips, wasted spark, do88 IC
nitroboie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2019, 07:16 PM   #7
oldnfast
Board Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: connecticut
Default

If you plan on keeping the car don’t dick around a rebuild kit,get a cartridge.even if/when your present car dies just remove it for your next Volvo.
oldnfast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2019, 06:40 AM   #8
DET17
Reformed SAABaholic
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: NW Georgia
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rstarkie View Post
Any recommendations on finding a supplier for the kits?
Genuine MITSUBISHI overhaul kit.... should be less that $99 shipped to your door.

China knock offs cheap(er), but you pay for what you get.

ARD Tuning has an excellent Youtube video on the entire TD04 family rebuild. You can complete in less than 2 hours including cleaning of the housing (if you have a Usonic cleaner and some Simple Green).

Good luck..... nothing satisfies like OEM quality.....
__________________
Project "cheap thrills" build thread: http://forums.turbobricks.com/showth...67#post4211467

Feedback thread: http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=198746
DET17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2019, 11:20 AM   #9
Sjeng
Board Member
 
Sjeng's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldnfast View Post
If you plan on keeping the car don’t dick around a rebuild kit,get a cartridge.
This statement seems based on cold, hard facts and not gut feelings.
Sjeng is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2019, 11:44 AM   #10
towerymt
the real Towery
 
towerymt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: VA, USA
Default

I sent a 15g to g-pop-shop to be rebuilt after hearing others praise their work. They were great to deal with...got a call/voicemail when they had taken the turbo apart, they let me know over the phone that all the internals were in good condition, so it was just a basic rebuild. Cost/time/shipping/etc. was discussed and that was it...a few days later I had a neatly packaged, CLEAN rebuilt turbo ready to install. Cost was around $345 as I recall.





If you need snap ring pliers, the Knipex 48 21 J31 worked well and cost < $25. No need if you send it out for rebuilding. But I was installing a 15G and that required reclocking the compressor housing. You can see the locating pin on the housing...so if you had your current turbo rebuilt, it would come back assembled in the correct position.

In my limited experience with oil-blowing turbos (Garrett T3 specifically), the bearings do control the amount of oil getting to the oil seal (like a piston ring) on the turbine shaft, just in front of the turbine wheel. The combination of worn bearings and a coked up piston ring groove on the turbine shaft contribute to oil getting by into the exhaust housing.
towerymt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2019, 12:36 PM   #11
rstarkie
Board Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Hamilton, Ohio
Default

Thanks for the replies. I am back to say my turbo/oil leakage problem has taken an odd turn.

I had the car on jack stands to gain access to the oil cooler hoses. I only raised the front on two jack stands at the jacking points. This raised the front 8-9" above normal level ride height (at the jacking points).

After replacing the hoses and putting in the new G-05 coolant I started the car and brought it up to temperature in anticipation of letting it cool and topping up the reservoir. It was at that point that I smelled and then saw smoke coming from around the clamp on the turbo. There was also a half dollar sized puddle of oil on the floor. I had seen a little smoke out the exhaust from cold start up but at 282K I wasn't concerned.

I guess I shifted to worst case scenario and thought the turbo was toast. Later that evening after a cold beer I took a more rational approach to what might be the reason for the oil dripping. I decided that changing the cooler hoses and refilling the cooling system with fresh coolant should not effect oil circulation/leakage. What else could it be?

I decided I had never run the car with just the front on jack stands before. Next morning I raised the rear of the car and placed two jack stands at the rear jacking points- leveling the car. After starting the car and bringing it up to temperature it still smoked at the clamp but it did not leak any additional oil. Letting it idle an additional 10 minutes eliminated the smoke at the clamp. I assume the residual oil had burned off.

I took the car out on the highway and gave it a good flogging. Checking the mirror under boost did not produce any sign of smoke. Returning to the garage and raising the hood only revealed a very hot turbo and exhaust but no smoke.

So now it would seen that there is not a problem with the turbo leaking oil. The question would be why would running the car with the front raised cause oil to leak around that clamp?

Last edited by rstarkie; 03-15-2019 at 12:40 PM.. Reason: words
rstarkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2019, 01:15 PM   #12
Duder
His Dudeness, El Duderino
 
Duder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Torrance, CA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by towerymt View Post
The combination of worn bearings and a coked up piston ring groove on the turbine shaft contribute to oil getting by into the exhaust housing.
A well considered assessment and good description of what can happen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rstarkie View Post
So now it would seen that there is not a problem with the turbo leaking oil. The question would be why would running the car with the front raised cause oil to leak around that clamp?
As Towery pointed out, the only positive seal on the turbine end is a small piston ring. This is meant to prevent/reduce blow-by of gases only, not as an oil seal. The "oil seal" is really a system that works dynamically under certain conditions. With the front of the car on jackstands you have impeded gravity drainage of oil from the center housing. Oil will drain more slowly and the oil that's there will tend to be towards the turbine end (facing downward now with the front of the car jacked up). If you idled the engine for long periods, your exhaust pressure in the turbine housing wasn't high enough to keep that extra oil around the piston ring from making its way into the turbine stage. Hence the smoke and leakage around the turbine housing clamp. Once the car was level again and you made some full-load runs, it burned off any residual oil in the turbine and smoking stopped. It all makes sense.
Duder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2019, 01:46 PM   #13
rstarkie
Board Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Hamilton, Ohio
Default Thank you!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duder View Post
A well considered assessment and good description of what can happen.

It all makes sense.
Thanks for all the replies and after the explanations it all makes sense to me as well.
rstarkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2019, 09:43 PM   #14
Dirty Rick
Board Member
 
Dirty Rick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Cornholio, OR
Default

Also if the PCV system is not open and there is crank case pressure the turbo may not drain well.
Dirty Rick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2019, 11:46 PM   #15
NotSoFresh
Sick ****** T-Brick Prick
 
NotSoFresh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: gangcouver
Default

I have to ask since you didn't say, is there still oil in the car after the leaks and stuff?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty Rick View Post
Also if the PCV system is not open and there is crank case pressure the turbo may not drain well.
This is a good thing to check whether its causing the oil burning or not.

What is for sure is the angle of the car from the jackstands is NOT the problem.
I live in the mountains and have parked many healthy turbo volvos way nose up or nose down and never had additional smoking due to it.
Something else is up.
NotSoFresh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2019, 04:00 PM   #16
rstarkie
Board Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Hamilton, Ohio
Default PCV system

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty Rick View Post
Also if the PCV system is not open and there is crank case pressure the turbo may not drain well.
I don't believe I have a problem with crankcase pressure. I have experienced that twice. First time was a clogged flame trap that blew out the front main seal on my first Volvo and the second was on a car with a perfectly clean flame trap but the oil separator that was clogged enough to blow out the rear main seal on my son's car. I keep after that system now.

If you mean is the oil level in the crankcase OK it is. I had to top it up a little after removing the filter to change out the cooling hoses.

Last edited by rstarkie; 03-17-2019 at 04:02 PM.. Reason: added text
rstarkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:42 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.