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Old 03-05-2019, 09:39 PM   #1
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Default B18 Timing help

Bought this car 2 years ago and it's never really ran right. I've gotten it driving, but it was never really happy at the top end. I need someone to verify my cam/crank gears were installed correctly by a previous owner or if the cam is 180 degrees out (if that's even possible?) This is my first time dealing with a push rod motor.

What's been done:
Carbs rebuilt and multiple syncs, all new gaskets.
Replaced distributor and used new rotor/cap/plugs/wires/coil/condenser/points. Everything in spec.

When using a timing light the pulley never displayed the 10 0 10 20 marks, but instead would flash on white paint marked on the pulley that seemed 180 degrees out from the timing marks.

Recently dissembled the timing cove/pulley. The tab on the pulley that indexes on the bushing that goes on the crank gear was bent out, allowing it to slip or be placed wherever on the crank bushing.

With the #1 piston at TDC and the lines on the crank and cam gear pointed at each other, the rotor is pointing 180 degrees away from cyl 1.
The valves for cyl 1 are both closed , the next valve movement on crank rotation is valve #2 opening




With the #1 piston at TDC and the crank line at 2 o clock and the cam line at 2 o clock (180 degrees a part) the rotor is pointing at cyl #1.
The valves for cyl 1 are both closed, the next valve movement on crank rotation is valve #1 opening




Now, is the crank/cam/distributor timing on this engine correct or is something messed up?
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Old 03-05-2019, 09:54 PM   #2
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That looks right. When the timing marks are aligned on the gears the distributor will point to cylinder #4, not #1.
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Old 03-05-2019, 10:18 PM   #3
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Awesome, I appreciate the info. Should I rotate the distributor so it's pointing at cyl #4 with the timing marks aligned?
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Old 03-05-2019, 10:26 PM   #4
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That will get the static timing close. There's a line on the distributor body that will align with the rotor when the engine is at TDC #1 (just like the OHC distributors) but you'll need to put the timing cover back on and bend the tab down on the pulley to set it to TDC accurately.
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Old 03-05-2019, 10:29 PM   #5
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Cool, thank you for the help! Waiting on the new timing cover felt seal then I'll reassemble and have at it.
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Old 03-05-2019, 10:32 PM   #6
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When you get tired of the front seal seeping oil hit me up. I have the covers machined to use the OHC front crank seals.
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Old 03-07-2019, 02:48 PM   #7
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Do this. ^^
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Old 03-07-2019, 03:41 PM   #8
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Third that notion. Those felt seals just slightly slow the oil down on its way out of the block.

And this part:
Quote:
When using a timing light the pulley never displayed the 10 0 10 20 marks, but instead would flash on white paint marked on the pulley that seemed 180 degrees out from the timing marks.
..certainly isn't right. But with it running at all, it can't be real. Either you're looking at the wrong mark on the pulley, or the pulley is installed incorrectly, or you have the timing light hooked to the wrong wire?

But you can *CAREFULLY* find TDC using something soft and non-breakable stuck in through the #1 spark plug hole to feel when the piston tops out. It will almost stop moving perceptibly for a number of degrees near TDC, just sort of feel for both sides of this dead zone and split the difference down the middle, that's TDC. And wherever that happens to be on the front pulley, that's it, not where some other mark says it is. Err... assuming the pulley doesn't move around as the engine runs somehow (key missing?).
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Old 03-07-2019, 03:45 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ))<>(( View Post
Recently dissembled the timing cove/pulley. The tab on the pulley that indexes on the bushing that goes on the crank gear was bent out, allowing it to slip or be placed wherever on the crank bushing.
He did say there was a problem with the indexing tab on the pulley which explains the timing marks not lining up.
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Old 03-07-2019, 03:47 PM   #10
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Ah, I think I read that and it didn't register for whatever reason.
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Old 03-11-2019, 10:06 PM   #11
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Got the pulley back on there and with everything lined up it did in fact show 0 degrees, so it must have slipped off the guide.

Put everything back together and after 10 minutes of cranking it started. No idea why it took so long. Anyway, it idled well and I was able to check the timing on it with a light. It was above 30. I was able to bring it down to 20. Anything lower than that and it would die. After a few minutes of idling it would stumble and eventually die. If I give it gas it'll run for another minute then stumble and die again. Another f***y thing is the timing light will no longer blink. It has power and I've tried cyl 1 and 4, and it will not blink to show timing.

Here's a video

https://youtu.be/lTR-SkXWOVQ

Any ideas on what could be causing this?
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Old 03-11-2019, 10:35 PM   #12
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Is the ballast resistor on the wire between the points and the coil (-)?
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Old 03-11-2019, 10:36 PM   #13
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I've tried it with the resistor and without, acts the same. Is there a way to test the resistor?
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Old 03-11-2019, 10:42 PM   #14
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The ballast resistor, if needed would go on the coil (+) terminal. Not all coils need a ballast resistor.

The wire between the points and the coil (-) should be continuous.

What's the point gap?
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Old 03-11-2019, 10:48 PM   #15
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As of right now the (+) side comes off the loom and plugs directly into the coil. The (-) on the coil goes to the resistor and then to the points/condenser.

I just checked my coik and it says no resistor required, so I guess we can rule that out.

Points are currently at .016, I've also tried .018 and .020.
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Old 03-11-2019, 11:08 PM   #16
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Pull that ballast resistor off the ground side.
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Old 03-11-2019, 11:09 PM   #17
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The car acts the same with the resistor removed.
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Old 03-12-2019, 12:10 AM   #18
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Is that an oil filled coil? If so, they don't like to be mounted upside down.
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Old 03-12-2019, 10:35 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hiperfauto View Post
Is that an oil filled coil? If so, they don't like to be mounted upside down.
It probably is. I'll verify when I get home tonight.

Here's the coil: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

At the time I bought it off Amazon it set it fit a 68 142, but now the amazon guided part finder says no. I have the coil that came with the car that I can slap back on there as well.

***edit***

I ended up ordering the 083 Bosch coil to see if that does any better. It'll be here tomorrow.

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Old 03-12-2019, 12:08 PM   #20
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So if you goose the throttle, it keeps running?

What do the sparks look like?
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Old 03-12-2019, 01:06 PM   #21
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Quote:
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So if you goose the throttle, it keeps running?

What do the sparks look like?

yea, it keeps running if I give it a quick rev every so often.

Haven't checked spark color or strength yet. The plugs are generally black no matter how much I lean it out.

With the timing light not going off and black plugs, I'm going to assume I have a pretty weak spark..but I'm also retarded so it could be something else.
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Old 03-12-2019, 02:02 PM   #22
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I would suggest checking those plug wires. A resistance check will help you test them.
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Old 03-12-2019, 02:47 PM   #23
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I'll check the plug wires tonight. They are Denso brand that are closed to two years.

Thanks for the suggestions!
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Old 03-12-2019, 03:15 PM   #24
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Still, giving the throttle a goose every once in a while to keep it running makes me think something is up with the carbs, more so than the ignition.

Those look like HS6's, so they don't overflow into the carb throat, instead just onto the exhaust manifold. (lol).

But still, it more sounds like the engine is just loading up on gas a bit much on an extended idle, and dying from being over rich. Possibly the jets hanging down (in choke position), instead of sitting against the stops? Or the float bowl levels a bit too high so more fuel is going in than should (not overfilling the bowls, but perhaps dribbling into the carb throats?).

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Old 03-12-2019, 03:26 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnMc View Post
Still, giving the throttle a goose every once in a while to keep it running makes me think something is up with the carbs, more so than the ignition.

Those look like HS6's, so they don't overflow into the carb throat, instead just onto the exhaust manifold. (lol).

But still, it more sounds like the engine is just loading up on gas a bit much on an extended idle, and dying from being over rich. Possibly the jets hanging down (in choke position), instead of sitting against the stops? Of the float bowl levels a bit too high so more fuel is going in than should (not overfilling the bowls, but perhaps dribbling into the carb throats?).
I've gone though just about everything in the carbs multiple times (minus changing the jets). I've verified the chokes aren't stuck in the down position while it runs. Floats are new along with the fuel bowl valves. I'll pop one of the covers again tonight and check levels when it dies. In the past I had an issue with them overflowing out of the vent hole and onto the exhaust (awesome design), but new valves fixed that.

I do know that the fuel pump on this thing FILLS the fuel filter to the brim. I have one of those inline mechanical fuel pressure limiters that came with the car. I can try reinstalling that to cut down on how much fuel is being fed to the bowls.
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