Vintage PV 444 / 544 Year and ID Puzzle

I bought what was listed as a 1957 444 today. It's a split window, and it has a B16 with twin carbs.

The title lists the car as a 1959, but has no model number. The seller and I both assumed that the car was a 1957 (seems to fit all the other facts) that was sold or somehow titled in 1959. But now that I'm looking up the chassis number, it seems to fit in the later date range too. I wonder if perhaps this 444 had 544 ID plates put on it at some point?

Type: P 54408 A
Chassis Number: 202975
Color: 42
Upholstry: 24-143

The engine has these numbers:

B16 (cast)
6388 (stamped)
49538 (cast)

While the tag says color 42 (California white / Cascade White / Ivory), and the corresponding body number plate is white (202688), the rest of the car doesn't appear to have ever been white. It's been repainted a couple times (even over the chassis plate), but from the dash color and some solid, high quality color found in the engine compartment, I would say the original color was 31 (Midnight Blue). The brighter blue is definitely a repaint.

Are there other places on the car that will help ID the year? Is there any way my car is a split window 544? If someone put 1959 544 ID tags on a 444, how else can I determine the original year?

The title that I have for the car is from 1974. It is signed and notarized, but has been passed on from owner to owner since then. The car has been sitting for a long time, so I don't know when it was last driven. There is no model or color listed, just "1959 Volvo" and "ID no. 02975." That's close to but missing the first digit (2) from the chassis number listed on the chassis ID tag on the car.

A lot of this will have to be sorted out at the DMV, but I would really like to know what year my car actually is!

Some pictures:

This is really cool-we both got 444s within a week of each other! Mine has a slightly less interesting year mystery.

From what I know yours definitely is a 444 due to the split window, I believe 544 chassis code would have always had a 544 windshield. BUT 1959 makes it a 544. Now it could have been built in the first half of 58, but not sold until 59, because back then things moved a little more slowly. I believe mine was built in 56 with 56 parts, but was sold as a 57. The B16 seems correct, and could be found in either an early 544 or any later 444.

Great find!

The years on the titles can be one or two years later than the manufacture date on an old car like that. Volvo wasn't really doing any model year thing (well, they did have model switchovers but not on a calendar year), and there wasn't the huge raft of model year specific US regulations the car had to be certified to pass either. So many states just put the year of the car's first sale as the model year of the car. So it's not surprising that the year here doesn't match the car's manufacture.

However, the chassis number certainly (after checking a couple of different sources - such as this: http://www.bearmanmotorsports.com/pv.html ) it certainly seems like the ID tags on your car do not match the car itself. The 444 - 544 model switchover was a major thing, it's not like they would have snuck a few more 444's out of the factory in the 544 chassis number range.



That number is certainly very early in the 544 range, however. And there doesn't seem to be much of a discrepancy between the chassis and body numbers as well, I think the separation between the two is pretty reasonable.

However, the chassis plate being held on with screws is not right, I'm not home to go look at mine but I thought it was riveted on. Similarly, the body tag is also held on with screws in your pics, which doesn't seem right.
Edit: Retraction: I googled up some pics of 544 chassis tags and it does look like they are held on with screws, not rivets? The screws still don't match, which is fishy.


I'm thinking someone may have swapped some ID tags around at one point. AFAIK there are not any other identifying numbers stamped into the body anywhere. If there was a crime at work here, it probably happened back when that title was first issued.

Late arriving thought: While the separation between body and chassis numbers in those pics looks pretty reasonable, is it in the wrong direction? I thought the body numbers were usually a bit higher than the chassis numbers. A separate plant made the bodies, and gave them all a sequential number. They were then shipped to the final assembly plant where they got all the parts put in and were assigned a chassis number. In theory, these started off equal, but over time, a slowly growing number of bodies didn't make it all the way through the process of being turned into a completed car. So the body number should be a bit higher than the chassis number, not a few hundred lower as is the case here.

PS: I haven't ever noticed this on my car, bu haven't' looked, but this old post on BB says there's a stamped number on the driver's side of the firewall, under the heater?

https://www.brickboard.com/RWD/volvo/1206439/444-544/serial_numer_chassis_number_64_544.html

I have read previous posts from members as to which number is correct. The one labeled "ch nr" on the square plate passenger side fire wall or the number stamped into the firewall drivers side under the heater (in my case both numbers are the same) or the metal plate painted over on the passenger side front spar

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I'll take a look on mine tonight, but being a 1963, they might have been doing things differently by then.

JohnMc said:

If there was a crime at work here, it probably happened back when that title was first issued.

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A crime would make this car even more special to me!

I took the old 1974 title (signed and notarized) into the DMV to figure out what to do with it. They gave me some funny looks and held a little conference. I explained the issues:

1. The title is signed and notarized, but the purchaser's name on the title is a guy who bought it in 1974 and never got it titled in his name. It's been sold at least three times since then.
2. The ID # on the title is missing a digit from the chassis # on the car
3. The title says the car is a '59, and from everything I know, it has to be a '57.

Their advice was to ignore the old title that I have and just use a bill of sale and highway inspection to apply for a new title. To use the old title, I would probably need to track down the listed purchaser and get his signature. If he wouldn't cooperate, I would be up a creek. If I start with a bill of sale, and list the car as a 1957, the new title will list it as a 1957.

The main reason I want to get the year correct is that I would like to put an original year of manufacture license plate on it. The plate and title year have to match. I have two 1957 plates to choose from.

Anyone else want to weigh in on the likely correct year of this car, based on the features, not the ID tags?

I'll post some more photos of the interior in a bit.

Thanks!
Jason

This has some model year (series) changes listed: https://www.volvoclub.org.uk/prof_pv.shtml
As does this: https://stevemckelvie.wordpress.com/2012/12/31/volvo-pv444-the-post-war-volvo/

Makes it sound like the B16 444's were only in the 1957 year, before was the B14. The grille on your car doesn't seem to be an original, likely a 544 replacement.

Where are the taillights? On the body, or on the fenders?

Tail light photo:



Interior photos with 444 styling and badge:

Disregard my comment about the grille being wrong, it would be correct, as well as the turn signals in the front fender, if it were a 1958 version. I think most of the items on your car seem to match that year. Later 544 style grille, turn signals in fenders below the headlights, taillights in the fenders and not on the body, no signs of a cuckoo on the b-pillar, B16 engine.

Additional note: I think back then Volvo didn't have a huge engineering staff, so not all of their changes happened on clean model year breaks. The larger changes did, as they'd close the factory down in late summer (??) and make the larger changes, but other smaller things just got trickled out during the middle of a model year run.

That's what I'm coming up with too. My exterior details (grille, turn signals) seem to look exactly like this car:





That site also talks about a 1958 444 and 1959 544. Other sites talk about the transition being between 1957 (444) and 1958 (544). Was the British and US transition different? Or are we just trying to put distinctions into place that weren't there to begin with?

Are there any photos of the differences between a 1957 and 1958 444?

Thanks!
Jason

I can't easily google anything up to bolster my memory, but IIRC Volvo closed the factories in summer for a month or so for major model changeovers, and then produced the next series model until the next summer. So a particular version of a 444 (for example) would get produced from say August 1955 until June 1956. Would you call that a '1955 model' or a '1956' model?

https://www.volvoclub.org.uk/history/pv444_stats_search.shtml

In general terms, probably roughly half of the 444L models were built in 1957, and half in 1958. As opposed to the 444K's which were half built in 1956 and half in 1957.

So it looks like yours is a 444L, no real way of knowing which year it was produced in since you don't have the 'real' chassis number any more. If you had the real number, you could make an educated guess based on where it lies in the whole model production range. I.e. in the first or second half of the number range.

As someone mentioned on BB, it's possible that the chassis number is stamped on the body under the heater. Although on second thought, would they really stamp a painted body like that in the final assembly plant? Because they wouldn't have the chassis number at the body plant to stamp it there prior to painting. Perhaps that number stamped on that car wasn't really kosher either? I'll look under the heater on mine when I get home, just out of curiosity. Although it's pretty hard to see under there with the fenders and steering column and heater all in place.

JohnMc said:

Although it's pretty hard to see under there with the fenders and steering column and heater all in place.

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You're right, it's pretty tight in there. I tried to find this, but I can't see any number. If you find a number on yours, or find confirmation of this number location, please let me know.

Thanks!
Jason

Another consideration: when looking for and buying parts, I want to be sure I'm using the correct year. Curiously, when I look at IPD, they list 444 through 1959 and 544 beginning with 1960. Apparently, according to IPD, I could call my car a 1959 444 if I wanted to.

IPD really doesn't have 'PV' parts per se, they just have some parts for 122's that also happen to fit on a PV. You'll need to find some of the other fine retailers of vintage Volvo parts. Some of whom post here at Turbobricks!

I looked for any sort of number under the heater on my PV and didn't see anything.

Also, the chassis number and body number separation is smaller than I remembered. On mine (made many, many cars later than yours, and the tags it wears) the chassis number is 390627, and the body number is 390660. So they'd only 'lost' 33 bodies up to that point. (Dropped at the factory, pulled apart for QC, sold as replacement body shells, used for motorsports, who knows)

Which would make yours doubly odd, in that it certainly appears to have another car's Chassis plate, and a different other car's body tag.

The car already has another color (green) passenger door and trunk lid. And while going through a pile of parts in the trunk, I found yet another Chassis plate for a 544. I think someone had access to other cars, but I don't understand why they would want to change the ID tags.

A previous owner (many years ago) was stockpiling 444/544 bits, some B20 parts, and some OEM packaged gaskets in the trunk. I pulled everything out this evening to figure out what I have. All of the boxes, crates, and plastic packaging is gone, but many of the parts still look usable.

By the way, I think I'm just going to call this a 1958, unless I run across any other helpful information in the next few days. The 1958 Kansas license plate matches the car the best.

Parts from the trunk and passenger compartment:



Dark blue plate to match the rusty dark blue car:

I'm rocking a Year Of Manufacture plate on mine as well, similarly 'aged' to match the car's patina:


(I never liked how bulky the rear bumper looked, took it off completely for a while, thought that didn't look right either, finally put a narrowed 1940 Ford bumper on it which looks about right to my eye)

Coming back to this, since I have some more info. I discovered a couple other places on the car with dates. It's not definitive, but I feel pretty confident with my choice of 1958.

I pulled the B16/M4. When I removed the starter to split the engine and transmission, I found this written on the starter: "58 Vovlo"



I pulled the steering column and box. The tag on the steering box has a date stamped on it: "9/57"



Last night I pulled all the dash components. On the back of the instrument cluster I found another date: "3.58"



It's nice to find info that confirms my guess and my preference for the year of the car.

After a little help from my friendly local DMV ladies, a second visit with the seller to get a bill of sale, and a nerve-wracking VIN inspection with a savvier-than-usual Kansas Highway Patrol inspector, I was able to officially get the car classified as a 1958.

It turns out that the KHP has the same year and chassis number range database as listed above. They immediately said that the chassis number puts it as a 1959, and I was afraid for about 15 minutes that I was going to end up with a unicorn--a 1959 PV444. But in the 15 minutes that we waited for her supervisor to call back, I gave the nice officer a quick schooling on early Volvo model details. With help from Wikipedia, I was able to show her that my split window meant I had a 444, and that 444s were only made until 1958. She read through the Wikipedia article on 444s and 544s, and by the time her supervisor called back, she was able to confidently explain that, although the chassis number seemed to suggest a 1959, it couldn't be a 1959 because she had googled it.

The supervisor decided it really didn't matter and said to just sign the paper. So I walked away with a 1958 444 wearing 1959 544 ID tags.

As to why we ended up in this predicament to begin with? I think I may have solved that mystery as well. After pulling the engine and other front end components, I started cleaning up the sheet metal and inspecting things more closely to get ready for some Chassis Saver paint. It now appears like the car was wrecked a long time ago and repaired in a less than professional way (at least it wouldn't meet my standards). There's quite a bit of wrinkling around the front of the transmission tunnel and on the sides of the body under the front fenders, and I'm pretty sure new front frame pieces were welded on by a really poor welder. I also discovered that what I initially thought was gray bondo is in fact lead body filler! It's hard to tell just how extensive the damage was, but maybe that's why the tags got switched long ago?