vertigosity
Member
- Joined
- Jul 8, 2008
- Location
- Memphis, TN
I'm lazy about writing about my own stuff, especially before it's 100% completed, or if it's not something particularly novel (which, lets be honest, this isn't), and I know people don't like to read things that require tl;dr summaries (which is how I write), or don't have lots of pictures (no time for pics, too busy wrenching). At any rate, I've built a decent knowledge base of what to do, and a bigger one of what not to do, so it's time to stop dropping text bombs in other people's threads, and start my own. Progress is typically pretty slow; the project is located in a shop 50 miles from me, so I can only really work on it on weekends, and practically 2 out of every 3 weekends are tied up running or running in local autocrosses and track events.
TL;DR summary: STSmachining mounts + automatic transmission + no strut tower brace = easy swap!
I like doing things the hard way and spending money like an idiot, leading to a cascade of
and reinventing the wheel.
Starting off, I had a '74 145, but there isn't much in the way of bolt-on performance stuff for that, so I found an '80 245 to play with junkyard B230FT stuff, and my '74 became my "don't mess with it" daily. Eventually, I followed the lead of all the cool kids, and adapted a 16V head. It was a fun power curve, but with a 15G, ultimately never made much more than 200rwhp, got about 16mpg on the highway, and after 5 years of being beat on in every local motorsport event I could use it for (autocross with 3-4 different clubs, some rallycross, some drifting, HPDE, towing a Spec Miata), it was developing special talents for spraying fluids everywhere and making funny noises, which... is fair.
(Yes, the only shot of my 16VT engine bay was one I took with a potato to sell an Ultra Racing strut bar I was test-fitting against JohnMC's old intake. It didn't fit. I later got a fresh head and a DNAsequence shortened B234F intake. It was roughly similar
)
I analyzed how much it'd cost to re-bore/seal/ring my 16VT stuff, get a better-sized turbo, top-mount exhaust manifold, redo my downpipe, and hack together engine mounts that wouldn't rip away every time I put my foot down, and decided that if I "forgot" to carry several zeroes, I might as well start an LSx swap. With some inspiration from some local pro-touring guys (Blu Balz and Project GatTagO, for the curious), I did just enough research to convince myself that I actually had a ghost of a chance of completing the project with mainly clever parts binning and subtractive and percussive (cut / grind / drill / file / hammer) fab work (I don't, and welding has/will occur(ed)), threw all sense to the wind, and bought an aluminum 5.3L (LM4, from a Buick-disguised '04 Trailblazer).
Pulled my 16VT, did most of the harness re-pinning required to make the original harness "standalone," swapped on a Holley 302-1 oil pan, LS3 dipstick (for which the pad isn't drilled on the LM4 block) and Hooker 8501 exhaust manifolds, and did some initial initial test-fits on the '80. I tried some C6 'vette engine mounts, which turned out to be a non-starter: they're in about the right place front-to-back and about the right height but are WAY too wide. I considered trying Dirty Dingo "street rod" mounts, but before I had time to mull that over, the STSmachining group buy picked up steam, so I waited for that. Immediately, I found out that the early rack has clearance issues against the STSmachining mounts: if you bolt the rack on after the driver side mount is installed, it should work, but you can't rotate/slide it in, or drop the engine in with mounts attached. Moot point, because...
...I picked up a paint code 412 ("verdigris") '93 with a few dents, not much remaining clearcoat, and some unique wiring problems (the driver side engine bay harness had been cut off and linesman-spliced back together mostly in the correct order, and with factory-correct-looking covering, but with the highbeams wired straight to battery positive, because its wire was red) for $400-something from a neighbor of a friend. I switched to it as the recipient for the V8 because I hoped the later GM-based receiver/drier-based system would be easier to mate to a GM compressor, and also because the '80 got a promotion to "designated safe boring reliable daily driver," status after my '74 got taken out in traffic.
At this point, the process of trial-and-error test-fitting begins in earnest:
Steering column shaft hits exhaust manifolds:
The rubber isolated "dog bone" shaped steering shaft will hit the Hooker exhaust manifold.
Solution: http://www.colemanracing.com/Steering-Shaft-Splined-P4078.aspx
Even then, it's still pretty close, but there's an air gap, I'm calling this one solved until it grinds apart, probably during an 80mph interstate Moose Test. There might also be a bit more room yet to be gained by unbolting the column inside the dash and trying to play with its angle there.
The F-body T56 shifter turret is about 4 inches too far back (Edit: no, it isn't, but it has to go in with the engine, and will need a similar offset stick in the opposite direction to my TKO), and will overlap with the back of the tunnel in an area that doesn't look like it'll lend itself to sledgehammer-based modding. I can't confirm any of this, but the Magnum, Viper, and Cobra tailhousings all look like better fits, and the remote shifter used on the TR6060 would be easily modified. I got a TKO and a reproduction -621 bellhousing.
Most LSx TKO installs use a flywheel from a truck, which is thicker (to offset the difference in crank depth between an SBC and an LSx) and heavier. I didn't like that idea, so I kept my LS6 flywheel and clutch, added an LS7 pilot bearing (it sits further back than the LS1 style, but is the same inside diameter), and a Quarter Master 721-100 throwout bearing. That all went together pretty directly, but that style throwout bearing requires that the transmission and bellhousing be installed as a unit (like an M46), which in turn requires considerably more tunnel clearance than installing the bellhousing without the transmission. I managed to install the engine and transmission as a unit by dropping the engine crossmember to the last few threads of bolt, and drafting an assistant to work the engine hoist while I bench-pressed and floor-jacked various parts of the drivetrain. Seriously, just f***ing notch the crossmember already. Yes, I got it in /without/ doing it, but it will make your life so much simpler.
The TKO shifter hole is about 2" too far forward. I decided to solve the problem by throwing money, got an American Powertrain White Lightning 2.25" offset shifter, success.
Transmission mount:
Mustang T5 mounts (both a gsellstr-style hacked SN95 crossmember, and the Yoshifab part) are way too low to be used with the GM TKO. STSmachining's 4l60e mount is the perfect height, but needs to either be about 1cm longer to work with the crossmember in the rear-most position, or 1in shorter to move the crossmember forward one set of bolt holes. So, I broke out the drill press and grinder bits, and slotted my transmission mount:
Note that I did it backwards - the instructions for the mount say to keep the curved part pointed at the rear of the car, so… whoops.
Intake manifold
The truck intake won't clear an IPD/Cherry Turbo cross-brace, even with "shaving." Since I planned on keeping that brace and/or converting to a flat hood, I got a Dorman LS6 reproduction intake. The truck throttle body and MAP sensor mate, and the vacuum/PCV plumbing differences will work out with standard hoses and tee fittings. The truck carbon canister purge valve (which I'm keeping for some reason) won't be easily reused, so I'm picked up an external valve from the junkyard from a 3800 (which uses the same part as an LS1/LS6). The truck alternator/PS bracket interferes with the vacuum nipple for the LS6 purge valve on the Dorman intake (it's a little higher and further forward on real LS1/LS6 intakes, so it probably isn't an issue there), so I modified it to point vertically by hacking off its nipple, drilling out its base, using the base as a clamp for the freestanding nipple, and using the O-ring that used to be on the base to seal the nipple against the intake - it's a dumb little detail that I spent way too much time on, but I'm actually kinda proud of this one.
Fuel rails:
I have tried several approaches to hacking the truck fuel rails to work with the LS6 intake, but haven’t come up with anything that I’m happy with. http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/gene...2883-using-truck-injectors-f-body-intake.html looked promising but didn’t line up for me. I'll probably end up getting some Holley rails (one of the less "bling" options available) and a Corvette filter/regulator (which requires a corresponding ECU change, for the early 'Vettes and trucks, which were vacuum referenced). Earls sells an adapter that threads onto the Volvo fuel feed, but I don't think the shape is quite right: https://www.holley.com/products/plu...metric_thread_to_an_adapters/parts/9919DFHERL.
Belt-Driven Accessories:
The truck water pump interferes with the throttle body after switching to the lower intake, so I swapped on an L99 (automatic G5 Camaro) water pump. The idler pulley section of the truck alternator/PS bracket interferes with both the throttle body and the water pump, so I cut it off and got a Dirty Dingo idler pulley relocation bracket.
The Trailblazer has a DR44-sized alternator, which clearly won't clear the hood, so I went to my local U-Pull-It and pulled a CS130D-style unit from an S10, which 77volvo245 and Ttownthomas have both confirmed to fit.
Power steering lines hooked up directly, as the Trailblazer uses a Type II pump nearly identical to the one that Volvo themselves used on B230F 240s. The ABS-era high pressure line has a slightly better path than the non-ABS 86+, but the low pressure line I ended up using is actually from an /early/ car, as it lacks the metal line at the rack side, making it easier to snake around. Go figure.
A/C... I'm still trying to figure out. An original Volvo compressor will bolt to a Holley Sanden-conversion bracket, and should be straightforward to convert to serpentine belt, but after some initial rough test fits, I'm not sure the stock late-era hoses can be used in any way that makes sense. I also have the original Trailblazer compressor, but its original bracket can't be used as it bolts to the Trailblazer oil pan instead of the block (like a truck). Lines removed from a friend's '95 Silverado match up to my '93, but might also likewise point in unusable directions with a low-mount truck bracket. Plan on buying a crimp tool and making your own lines; I expect to before I declare this a solved problem.
Clutch: I plan on using a one-off McLeod clutch master for Fox body LSx conversions (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mcl-14-330-01) and a universal end to mate it directly to the 240 cable clutch pedal. This is a dumb idea. Do http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=149175 instead.
And that's where it was... a month or so, ago.
Next up: finish deleting ABS to make room on the driver size fender for an ECU, get back to wiring, more AC and fuel rail test fits, clutch/pedal work.
TL;DR summary: STSmachining mounts + automatic transmission + no strut tower brace = easy swap!
I like doing things the hard way and spending money like an idiot, leading to a cascade of
Starting off, I had a '74 145, but there isn't much in the way of bolt-on performance stuff for that, so I found an '80 245 to play with junkyard B230FT stuff, and my '74 became my "don't mess with it" daily. Eventually, I followed the lead of all the cool kids, and adapted a 16V head. It was a fun power curve, but with a 15G, ultimately never made much more than 200rwhp, got about 16mpg on the highway, and after 5 years of being beat on in every local motorsport event I could use it for (autocross with 3-4 different clubs, some rallycross, some drifting, HPDE, towing a Spec Miata), it was developing special talents for spraying fluids everywhere and making funny noises, which... is fair.
(Yes, the only shot of my 16VT engine bay was one I took with a potato to sell an Ultra Racing strut bar I was test-fitting against JohnMC's old intake. It didn't fit. I later got a fresh head and a DNAsequence shortened B234F intake. It was roughly similar
)I analyzed how much it'd cost to re-bore/seal/ring my 16VT stuff, get a better-sized turbo, top-mount exhaust manifold, redo my downpipe, and hack together engine mounts that wouldn't rip away every time I put my foot down, and decided that if I "forgot" to carry several zeroes, I might as well start an LSx swap. With some inspiration from some local pro-touring guys (Blu Balz and Project GatTagO, for the curious), I did just enough research to convince myself that I actually had a ghost of a chance of completing the project with mainly clever parts binning and subtractive and percussive (cut / grind / drill / file / hammer) fab work (I don't, and welding has/will occur(ed)), threw all sense to the wind, and bought an aluminum 5.3L (LM4, from a Buick-disguised '04 Trailblazer).
Pulled my 16VT, did most of the harness re-pinning required to make the original harness "standalone," swapped on a Holley 302-1 oil pan, LS3 dipstick (for which the pad isn't drilled on the LM4 block) and Hooker 8501 exhaust manifolds, and did some initial initial test-fits on the '80. I tried some C6 'vette engine mounts, which turned out to be a non-starter: they're in about the right place front-to-back and about the right height but are WAY too wide. I considered trying Dirty Dingo "street rod" mounts, but before I had time to mull that over, the STSmachining group buy picked up steam, so I waited for that. Immediately, I found out that the early rack has clearance issues against the STSmachining mounts: if you bolt the rack on after the driver side mount is installed, it should work, but you can't rotate/slide it in, or drop the engine in with mounts attached. Moot point, because...
...I picked up a paint code 412 ("verdigris") '93 with a few dents, not much remaining clearcoat, and some unique wiring problems (the driver side engine bay harness had been cut off and linesman-spliced back together mostly in the correct order, and with factory-correct-looking covering, but with the highbeams wired straight to battery positive, because its wire was red) for $400-something from a neighbor of a friend. I switched to it as the recipient for the V8 because I hoped the later GM-based receiver/drier-based system would be easier to mate to a GM compressor, and also because the '80 got a promotion to "designated safe boring reliable daily driver," status after my '74 got taken out in traffic.
At this point, the process of trial-and-error test-fitting begins in earnest:
Steering column shaft hits exhaust manifolds:
The rubber isolated "dog bone" shaped steering shaft will hit the Hooker exhaust manifold.
Solution: http://www.colemanracing.com/Steering-Shaft-Splined-P4078.aspx
Even then, it's still pretty close, but there's an air gap, I'm calling this one solved until it grinds apart, probably during an 80mph interstate Moose Test. There might also be a bit more room yet to be gained by unbolting the column inside the dash and trying to play with its angle there.
The F-body T56 shifter turret is about 4 inches too far back (Edit: no, it isn't, but it has to go in with the engine, and will need a similar offset stick in the opposite direction to my TKO), and will overlap with the back of the tunnel in an area that doesn't look like it'll lend itself to sledgehammer-based modding. I can't confirm any of this, but the Magnum, Viper, and Cobra tailhousings all look like better fits, and the remote shifter used on the TR6060 would be easily modified. I got a TKO and a reproduction -621 bellhousing.
Most LSx TKO installs use a flywheel from a truck, which is thicker (to offset the difference in crank depth between an SBC and an LSx) and heavier. I didn't like that idea, so I kept my LS6 flywheel and clutch, added an LS7 pilot bearing (it sits further back than the LS1 style, but is the same inside diameter), and a Quarter Master 721-100 throwout bearing. That all went together pretty directly, but that style throwout bearing requires that the transmission and bellhousing be installed as a unit (like an M46), which in turn requires considerably more tunnel clearance than installing the bellhousing without the transmission. I managed to install the engine and transmission as a unit by dropping the engine crossmember to the last few threads of bolt, and drafting an assistant to work the engine hoist while I bench-pressed and floor-jacked various parts of the drivetrain. Seriously, just f***ing notch the crossmember already. Yes, I got it in /without/ doing it, but it will make your life so much simpler.
The TKO shifter hole is about 2" too far forward. I decided to solve the problem by throwing money, got an American Powertrain White Lightning 2.25" offset shifter, success.
Transmission mount:
Mustang T5 mounts (both a gsellstr-style hacked SN95 crossmember, and the Yoshifab part) are way too low to be used with the GM TKO. STSmachining's 4l60e mount is the perfect height, but needs to either be about 1cm longer to work with the crossmember in the rear-most position, or 1in shorter to move the crossmember forward one set of bolt holes. So, I broke out the drill press and grinder bits, and slotted my transmission mount:
Note that I did it backwards - the instructions for the mount say to keep the curved part pointed at the rear of the car, so… whoops.
Intake manifold
The truck intake won't clear an IPD/Cherry Turbo cross-brace, even with "shaving." Since I planned on keeping that brace and/or converting to a flat hood, I got a Dorman LS6 reproduction intake. The truck throttle body and MAP sensor mate, and the vacuum/PCV plumbing differences will work out with standard hoses and tee fittings. The truck carbon canister purge valve (which I'm keeping for some reason) won't be easily reused, so I'm picked up an external valve from the junkyard from a 3800 (which uses the same part as an LS1/LS6). The truck alternator/PS bracket interferes with the vacuum nipple for the LS6 purge valve on the Dorman intake (it's a little higher and further forward on real LS1/LS6 intakes, so it probably isn't an issue there), so I modified it to point vertically by hacking off its nipple, drilling out its base, using the base as a clamp for the freestanding nipple, and using the O-ring that used to be on the base to seal the nipple against the intake - it's a dumb little detail that I spent way too much time on, but I'm actually kinda proud of this one.
Fuel rails:
I have tried several approaches to hacking the truck fuel rails to work with the LS6 intake, but haven’t come up with anything that I’m happy with. http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/gene...2883-using-truck-injectors-f-body-intake.html looked promising but didn’t line up for me. I'll probably end up getting some Holley rails (one of the less "bling" options available) and a Corvette filter/regulator (which requires a corresponding ECU change, for the early 'Vettes and trucks, which were vacuum referenced). Earls sells an adapter that threads onto the Volvo fuel feed, but I don't think the shape is quite right: https://www.holley.com/products/plu...metric_thread_to_an_adapters/parts/9919DFHERL.
Belt-Driven Accessories:
The truck water pump interferes with the throttle body after switching to the lower intake, so I swapped on an L99 (automatic G5 Camaro) water pump. The idler pulley section of the truck alternator/PS bracket interferes with both the throttle body and the water pump, so I cut it off and got a Dirty Dingo idler pulley relocation bracket.
The Trailblazer has a DR44-sized alternator, which clearly won't clear the hood, so I went to my local U-Pull-It and pulled a CS130D-style unit from an S10, which 77volvo245 and Ttownthomas have both confirmed to fit.
Power steering lines hooked up directly, as the Trailblazer uses a Type II pump nearly identical to the one that Volvo themselves used on B230F 240s. The ABS-era high pressure line has a slightly better path than the non-ABS 86+, but the low pressure line I ended up using is actually from an /early/ car, as it lacks the metal line at the rack side, making it easier to snake around. Go figure.
A/C... I'm still trying to figure out. An original Volvo compressor will bolt to a Holley Sanden-conversion bracket, and should be straightforward to convert to serpentine belt, but after some initial rough test fits, I'm not sure the stock late-era hoses can be used in any way that makes sense. I also have the original Trailblazer compressor, but its original bracket can't be used as it bolts to the Trailblazer oil pan instead of the block (like a truck). Lines removed from a friend's '95 Silverado match up to my '93, but might also likewise point in unusable directions with a low-mount truck bracket. Plan on buying a crimp tool and making your own lines; I expect to before I declare this a solved problem.
Clutch: I plan on using a one-off McLeod clutch master for Fox body LSx conversions (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mcl-14-330-01) and a universal end to mate it directly to the 240 cable clutch pedal. This is a dumb idea. Do http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=149175 instead.
And that's where it was... a month or so, ago.
Next up: finish deleting ABS to make room on the driver size fender for an ECU, get back to wiring, more AC and fuel rail test fits, clutch/pedal work.
Last edited:
