DET17's "Project cheap thrills" - '92 944T

[hackster]

Originally Posted by harribert

Beware once you set it to higher boost. My car pings like crazy on boost transition when it's warm and dry out, even with browntops on.

Once it pings do you just stay on the throttle?


That boost is about as addicting as anything else. The smiles are endless.

Agreed on getting the tune better, that is too much fuel under full throttle.

Sean

[Harlard]

Originally Posted by hackster

Once it pings do you just stay on the throttle?


That boost is about as addicting as anything else. The smiles are endless.

Agreed on getting the tune better, that is too much fuel under full throttle.

Sean

No, I back the heck off if I see it touch 13 on anything over 2-3 pounds. It has even pinged after the cbv vented on decel Anyhow, the enrichment in my car at WOT is ridiculous, as in <10:1. My tune is absolutely terrible.

So yeah, Mr DET. Make sure you get a chip with a good tune on it, then if possible, ask to get it modified according to your needs.

[Harlard]

Originally Posted by DET17

.

First tank of gas only netted 18 MPG, and this one won't be any better

Got just under 13MPG on my last tank

[DET17]

Originally Posted by harribert

No, I back the heck off if I see it touch 13 on anything over 2-3 pounds. It has even pinged after the cbv vented on decel Anyhow, the enrichment in my car at WOT is ridiculous, as in <10:1. My tune is absolutely terrible.

Well I've had zero pinging since the break-in has begun. I shot an email to Mike (TLAO) regarding the rich WOT operations....no answer yet. Heading out into the garage and turn another rev on the MBC....see if we can hit 12 PSI this morning

Yes, considering another chip for the fuel ECU as a comparison. I've got what is supposed to be Fred's fuel chip in a 563 ECU (oldie but goodie), and I might have to install this weekend just to see if the WOT AFR's change with that one.

[Harlard]

Originally Posted by DET17

Well I've had zero pinging since the break-in has begun. I shot an email to Mike (TLAO) regarding the rich WOT operations....no answer yet. Heading out into the garage and turn another rev on the MBC....see if we can hit 12 PSI this morning

Yes, considering another chip for the fuel ECU as a comparison. I've got what is supposed to be Fred's fuel chip in a 563 ECU (oldie but goodie), and I might have to install this weekend just to see if the WOT AFR's change with that one.

It seems like my boost issue has been more or less mended. Turned the boost controller down 1-2 psi. Less boost spike, and more importantly, my AFRs on tip-in don't go leaner than 12.5. Still not ideal, but I will take it.

Seems like very fast spool will overwhelm LH, as it isn't designed to react to a 0-17 psi spike in half a second situation (which is my case; nothing until 2200RPM, then boom, full boost), which is understandable.

Do report back on the 12 psi pull!

Sorry to hijack your thread

[doucheNozzle]

LH2.4 always has ping on tip-in.

[DET17]

Another turn on the MBC, and shazzam.....13 PSI

Fun stuff! The car pulls hard, once the T3 gets going at/about 2500 RPM. My RICH WOT condition still exists....my AEM is pegged at 10, so I'm sure not worried about detonation/pinging. I need to research if the <10 AFR's will damage my pistons/rings.

With my stocker FMIC and no BOV, I won't be pushing it any higher for now. My AC is working fine, actually can get the car too cool and I must throttle it back. Given that it is mid 90's and super humid here now, I'm not chancing blowing up that stock IC (which Anthony Hyde says will blow the end tanks off around 18 PSI).

FWIW, sent a PM to Mike (TLAO) regarding the very rich condition on full throttle/boost, but still waiting for a reply .......I'm not holding my breath. Will read deeper into his chips' feedback thread and see if this a chronic issue with his fuel chip.

[doucheNozzle]

<10afr will wash down your cylinder walls and contaminate your oil.

[HonestJhon]

check for air leaks in your post amm intake tract.
pressurize it and find the leaks. fix that, reset the ECU, and go from there.


good ol' lh!

[DET17]

Well folks, got this reply from Mike (TLAO), and not wanting to misquote him, here it is cut & pasted:

Typically LH will learn in 200-400 miles.

You could have a vac leak or a bad sensor, Hard to say without working on the car. I would pressure test for leaks anyways.

Sensor wise I would try another AMM. I have seen afr's varry from 10:1 to 14:1 under load from different AMM's. Some AMM's will give the same afr's and others will give very skewd readings. Kind of at random, I have also seen older 02's do something like that.

Any reason not to turn up the boost? at that low of boost you will not really hurt anything and these motors do wake up with more boost a lot. Stock IC sucks one way or another but most run 15+psi without to many issues on them.

Scotty, I was afraid you would say that! Need to find these damn leaks and fix them, or otherwise stay out of the boost. I'm planning to go to Mobil 1 Synthetic in another 1500 miles, but it might have to be sooner if my oil smells of gas. I don't have oil leaks of any size, just a nuisance weep coming from somewhere up front. Since this tank of gas has netted me barely 250 miles, I'll just keep my foot out of the damn thing until I get these leaks resolved to keep the oil and gas separated. Once bright spot....the last WOT blast at my local "proving ground" had the AFRs down around 10.2, 10.3, and that was at 13 PSI. Mike is suggesting 15 PSI, but that is getting close to the explosion point for my stocker IC.

HonestJ, to your comment about post AMM leaks, I'm thinking that the connections from T3 compressor outlet to TPS inlet are the ones that would generate the RICH condition. My brain thinks a "suction leak" between AMM and compressor INLET would result in a LEAN condition as the unaccounted-for air going IN should not be accounted for when injecting fuel.

At any rate, time to get the soap & water spray bottle, and begin search for those leaks. I spotted some oil at theFMIC exit in front of my battery, so perhaps I should start there....

The adventure continues! Hopefully soon I'll get some updated pics of "cheap thrills" with the lowered stance, prior to the paint work.

[Harlard]

Don't worry about 10:1 under boost too much. If you are running 14:7 everywhere else, it means it's running fine.

These cars run pig fat rich under boost in stock form and they last forever.

[doucheNozzle]

Originally Posted by DET17

that is getting close to the explosion point for my stocker IC.

I wouldn't worry about the IC blowing up.

Originally Posted by harribert

Don't worry about 10:1 under boost too much. If you are running 14:7 everywhere else, it means it's running fine.

These cars run pig fat rich under boost in stock form and they last forever.

Please ignore this statement.

10:1 does not mean it's running fine.

[TheJeffers]

I run 15PSI on my car with a 15G, chips, and stock intercooler, and it's never given me any trouble. I've never heard of anybody blowing the ends off the IC either. With my car, when anything let go, it was the pressure hoses. We have nearly identical cars aside from the turbo, so you should be fine to turn up the boost a little more. Worst that happens is you have to dial it back a little.

All that aside, your attention to detail/problem-solving on this car is great - I'd love to do something similar to my car someday. Keep it up!

[stylngle2003]

don't worry about popping the intercooler. you will blow hoses off before you burst it, IME. Mine has seen numerous "oh **** the MBC adjuster screw fell out, instaboost to 25psi" spikes (my gauge is off the manifold, so i know it went through the IC) with no ill effects.

13-16psi is VERY fun with a 15g. it just hits so hard and fast

[Harlard]

Originally Posted by stylngle2003

don't worry about popping the intercooler. you will blow hoses off before you burst it, IME. Mine has seen numerous "oh **** the MBC adjuster screw fell out, instaboost to 25psi" spikes (my gauge is off the manifold, so i know it went through the IC) with no ill effects.

13-16psi is VERY fun with a 15g. it just hits so hard and fast

Yeah it does. My 15G feels like a light switch after I ported it

[DET17]

Originally Posted by TheJeffers

I run 15PSI on my car with a 15G, chips, and stock intercooler, and it's never given me any trouble. I've never heard of anybody blowing the ends off the IC either.

Jeffers, thanks for the kind words. Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? It ain't over now..... I'm looking at you, 15 PSI just as soon as I install that BOV....

And for the record, the reference of the end tanks blowing off the IC, from the man himself:

http://people.physics.anu.edu.au/~am...ntercooler.htm

[Jerd]

Originally Posted by harribert

These cars run pig fat rich under boost in stock form and they last forever.

Sounds optimal. Aren't we all shooting for improvements here? You should not settle for afrs like that. You could get a LOT more just from some decent tuning.

[Harlard]

Originally Posted by Jerd

Sounds optimal. Aren't we all shooting for improvements here? You should not settle for afrs like that. You could get a LOT more just from some decent tuning.

Oh Jered-boo, I agree with you 110%!

The point I was making was, that his cylinder walls wouldn't get washed down with fuel condensed on them by running 10:1 AFR on boost.

What I am getting at, is that though far from optimal from an economy and performance standpoint, running a bit rich is not that bad.

Ideally you want it to go to 12-11.5:1 on boost, of course, and so do I. I hate the tune in my car because it is all over the place. In fact, I already contacted Mike to send me some chips while I look for a proper EMS

[doucheNozzle]

Originally Posted by harribert

The point I was making was, that his cylinder walls wouldn't get washed down with fuel condensed on them by running 10:1 AFR on boost.

Not true at all. And he's running richer than 10:1 I'm pretty sure.

[M.H. Yount]

".....Germans bombed Pearl Harbor....." Wow. Did not know that.

[DET17]

Originally Posted by M.H. Yount

".....Germans bombed Pearl Harbor....." Wow. Did not know that.

Don't make me link the video clip....

[M.H. Yount]

I think there was one guy named Ulrich Yamamoto.

[DET17]

Originally Posted by DET17

Don't make me link the video clip....

Alright, well you made me do it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8lT1o0sDwI

Yes sir, I remember Yamamoto-san and his "sleeping giant" quote, very well.

[DET17]

Originally Posted by scottyd

Not true at all. And he's running richer than 10:1 I'm pretty sure.

Based upon chatting with Gsellstr, who fought a similar rich issue under WOT/full boost, I'll be checking/replacing my knock sensor to make sure it isn't failing or broken. A good scan through the "Mikes Chips" feedback thread has enlightened me.....I'll be checking to confirm I am not causing the ECU to pull timing/pour fuel due to knock. Also will do the leak down testing between compressor exit and the TPS. I'll update with findings.........

[doucheNozzle]

Originally Posted by DET17

Based upon chatting with Gstellar, who fought a similar rich issue under WOT/full boost, I'll be checking/replacing my knock sensor to make sure it isn't failing or broken. A good scan through the "Mikes Chips" feedback thread has enlightened me.....I'll be checking to confirm I am not causing the ECU to pull timing/pour fuel due to knock. Also will do the leak down testing between compressor exit and the TPS. I'll update with findings.........

Oh good thought. Knock sensor can for sure cause super rich conditions.