Sander's 6.0 V12 745 project

[Sander]

Originally Posted by Opgedronken

Awesome to see another Dutch guy doing an M120 swap.
This post is pushing me towards going dry sump though :P.

Ah nice, you're doing one too? Not sure a dry sump is less work than this though :p

[Opgedronken]

Yeah, but in a Miata. Just joined here to follow your build :P.

[JohnLane]

120 in a Miata.

OP Great project. Should be a nice runner. Going to have to get oil to wander back to the sump. First rule of plumbing applies.

[Sander]

I'll be making a tube between the front part of the sump and the rear part. It's a bit annoying to have to do this, but the oil pump hangs under the engine in the front part of the sump so I can't make it smaller there. The tube will connect the new rear sump with the front one and goes underneath the subframe. I'll make some baffles etc in it too to prevent the oil from all moving forward during heavy braking.

Originally Posted by Opgedronken

Yeah, but in a Miata. Just joined here to follow your build :P.

Sounds like fun :D is there enough space in a miata or do you just have to make enough space?

[MadDog_945]

as long as there is enough flow so the pump isnt sucking air?

[Opgedronken]

Originally Posted by Sander

Sounds like fun :D is there enough space in a miata or do you just have to make enough space?

Miatas have massive engine bays, only the height may be an issue :P.
That's why I'm interested to see how low you can get the sump.
On my one I'm going to weld an AN fitting onto the oil pump and relocate the pickup to the back with a hose through the sump.
I'll just put an extra oil drain plug on the front part of the sump.

[Mr.Borrie]

Haha Sander is at it again.. hope i get to see it some time

[Sander]

Originally Posted by MadDog_945

as long as there is enough flow so the pump isnt sucking air?

That shouldn't be a problem, the tube just connects the forward part of the sump with the rear part. The actual pickup tube that goes to the oil pump will go to the rear sump part.

Originally Posted by Opgedronken

Miatas have massive engine bays, only the height may be an issue :P.
That's why I'm interested to see how low you can get the sump.
On my one I'm going to weld an AN fitting onto the oil pump and relocate the pickup to the back with a hose through the sump.
I'll just put an extra oil drain plug on the front part of the sump.

The middle part there on the new oil pan i'm making is about the lowest you can make it. Dry sump or not. In this pic you can see the crankshaft and the windage tray underneath it.





Do you have the engine already? In the Volvo the height of the engine is only an issue at the very front of it. I can imagine it's worse in the miata. It isn't super high, just increadibly long, so if a hood slopes down like in most cars, that's where you'll have space issues. From the gearbox face to the front of the pulley is around 85cm.

Originally Posted by Mr.Borrie

Haha Sander is at it again.. hope i get to see it some time

Haha sure that can be arranged, once it's finished I do intend to drive it a lot.

[Opgedronken]

I don't have the engine yet, it's on the boat from Japan as we speak :P.
Great to hear the measurement of 85cm is from the trans mounting face to the pulley.
I've seen it mentioned on forums before, but no one mentions from where to where the measurement is.
The m120 has a big part of the bellhousing attached to it so it's a bit different from most other engines.

Where in the netherlands are you located? I'm in Venlo myself.

[Sander]

Been working on the subframe and finishing up the front suspension. Painted the new lowered subframe and all the other 960 suspension bits, installed the 960 toe rods and end links on the steering rack and put it all on the car. Also redid most of the underbody protection in the wheel well as it was showing it's age there. Next up I'll properly clean the engine bay and add heat shielding etc where the exhaust goes. Everything is now sort of temporarily together, I'll still replace most rusted ugly bolts with new ones and still have to replace the bushings in the control arms.

Originally Posted by Opgedronken

I don't have the engine yet, it's on the boat from Japan as we speak :P.
Great to hear the measurement of 85cm is from the trans mounting face to the pulley.
I've seen it mentioned on forums before, but no one mentions from where to where the measurement is.
The m120 has a big part of the bellhousing attached to it so it's a bit different from most other engines.

Where in the netherlands are you located? I'm in Venlo myself.

That's true, although on the left cylinder bank it's not so much space from the belhousing. I moved to Germany a few years ago, close to Trier on the border with Luxemburg (about 3 hours from Venlo) but the car is still registered in NL. I'll try to register it here once it's all done and a

[Opgedronken]

Damn getting that registered in germany isn't ging to be fun :P.

[MadDog_945]

quite impossible ;) i think he has it registered op de nederlanden, junge

[Sander]

Been spending quite a bit of time on a 1000 little things that still needed doing but are not interesting enough to post here. Although I did make a bit of progress. Decided to get new control arms instead of replacing the bushings in the ones I had, as they were getting a bit crunchy where the bushings are pressed in.




Few pics of how the pan will sit in the car. It'll be a bit higher than in the pictures here when bolted to the engine. The lower suspension cross brace will probably just clear the trans without modification.






Pan almost finished up, testing for leaks. My alu welding isn't the best the world has ever seen, but it'll hold.

[arsenix]

Are those the aluminum control arms or the steel?

How worried are you about the rear control arm bushing?

Steady progress

[Sander]

Originally Posted by arsenix

Are those the aluminum control arms or the steel?

How worried are you about the rear control arm bushing?

Steady progress

They are the steel ones, should hold just fine. The rear bushing doesn't bother me, it's brand new. Should hold fine. If it fails, found someone who makes poly bushings for it

[arsenix]

In my experience the poly bushings for that type of joint work like poop. I installed poly rear control arm bushings in a Golf a few years ago (similar type of control arm). They were destroyed in a few months. I was thinking about retrofitting a VW TT solid control arm bushing into there, or Moog makes a "spherical bushing" for these applications. Every other manufacturer other than Volvo uses a 60mm OD bushing though... Volvo is 70mm.

[Opgedronken]

The sump is coming along great!
Are you going to mill all the welds on the bolt holes flat?

[Jeh]

Wow. It always amazes me to see the amount of work going into a project like this. Just awesome.

[nordmaschine]

Originally Posted by arsenix

In my experience the poly bushings for that type of joint work like poop. I installed poly rear control arm bushings in a Golf a few years ago (similar type of control arm). They were destroyed in a few months. I was thinking about retrofitting a VW TT solid control arm bushing into there, or Moog makes a "spherical bushing" for these applications. Every other manufacturer other than Volvo uses a 60mm OD bushing though... Volvo is 70mm.

5mm thick sleeve could take care of that. I always go with TT bushings on VW's, they rock...

[Sander]

Bit of an update, started with adding some heat shielding material to the engine bay. I'll add the same on the driver's side, but I ran out of heat shielding stuff for now. If the V12 thing doesn't work out, I can still use it to land on the moon.



Painted and mounted the brake caliper on the passenger side now too. Here's how it fits with ET43 wheels and no spacers. 18" wheels minimum with the 350mm rotors.




And then time to freshen up and clean the V12 from the inside. It looks super clean everywhere, except for the carbon deposits on the pistons. The cylinder walls are all in excellent shape, so that's a relief. These engines had a problem with the wiring loom disintegrating due to an eco friendly plastic used for the wiring insulation, which sometimes caused all injectors to get stuck open and flooding the cylinder walls with fuel. I'll clean the pistons and the valves, replace all the seals and gaskets and put it all back together. Same with the transmission.

[arsenix]

Originally Posted by nordmaschine

5mm thick sleeve could take care of that. I always go with TT bushings on VW's, they rock...

My thought exactly! I have a lathe too

The only catch here is that the volvo bushing is also not concentric. The "center attachment" point is off center. So it would reduce caster by moving the rear control arm pivot slightly inboard. The VW (and every other similar car with 60mm bushings) is centered. So it would have to be a wonky offset sleeve (which I can do of course) or just move the control arm attachment point on the chassis a little (also not that bad).

[Opgedronken]

Nice, that engine looks pretty fresh! How many kms are on it?
Your timing chain and guides look pretty good as well.
I especially got a low mileage late model year engine so I could possibly skip replacing some expensive merc rubbers :P.

[Sander]

Originally Posted by Opgedronken

Nice, that engine looks pretty fresh! How many kms are on it?
Your timing chain and guides look pretty good as well.
I especially got a low mileage late model year engine so I could possibly skip replacing some expensive merc rubbers :P.

Mileage is unknown actually. It was a junkyard engine that they had laying around already for 6 years. But it looks like it didn't do a lot. Also considering the amount of carbon deposits, it never really saw much above idle. It still had an original Mercedes oil filter in it too, which suggests proper maintenance. And it's the cleanest (old) engine I've ever seen on the inside. Chain and guides look like new too. I'm going to see if Mercedes can look up the engine number to find out what car it belonged to and see if there is a service history of it.
If you can find one, getting a very late model (M120.983 or M120.984) one is a good idea, it has some updated bits and pieces, but mostly it already has distributorless ignition, a flex plate with 60-2 configuration teeth and non-desintegrating wiring. They do make 14hp less for some reason than the early ones. Not sure where the difference comes from.

[Sander]

Finished up the oil pickup tube for the rear sump today. It reuses the original pickup and also the support bracket for it, just in a different location.

[centason]

And the man has a clean MR2.

Engine coming along. Been lurking awaiting fitment. Good choice of color on the heat shield and brakes. Gold is always the right choice around here.