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240 Head gasket questions

S

swiggy

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Joined
Jan 13, 2011
Location
Victoria, BC
I'm doing a head gasket on a $300 car I just picked up for my girlfriend, its pretty mint apart from the blown gasket (really bad, super milky oil, I towed it home). Guy did start it for me, it has sat for 10 months and fired first time, ran great for 3 seconds before I shut it off. He said it suddenly blew white smoke when they were 2 blocks from home, so it hasn't been driven with coolant in the oil.

Any point in checking compression before pulling the head? I don't have a leakdown tester, head is obviously coming off. It seems to have even compression from way it turned over and ran fine. I know Mick always says test compression before pulling head?

It has sat for 10 months with milky oil, am I likely to find rusty cylinders? The fact it runs fine made me optimistic its not too bad inside.

Seeing conflicting advice on using copper spray, and also conflicting advice on retorquing head bolts after a few heat cycles.

Its my first head gasket, is a fairly cheap beam-type torque wrench good enough?

82 240 with B21A carbed engine
 
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Mmmmm chocolate milk P1040100.JPG

More than 8 litres came out of the oil pan. About 3 litres of coolant came out of the block drain.. :omg:
 
Beam tq wrench is just fine. Reusing headbolts can be kinda iffy... Sometimes they're worn out - might be wise to replace'em.

With that much water in the oil, I'd be most concerned about the motor having spun a bearing or something else catastrophic.

Probably won't matter much if you use copper spray or not. If ya got it, use it.

Do you have water in your coolant?
 
Thanks

gottarollwithit said:
With that much water in the oil, I'd be most concerned about the motor having spun a bearing or something else catastrophic.
Click to expand...

PO fired it up when I went to look at it, he only ran it for 3 seconds and then shut it off but it sounded fine, smooth and quiet. He said it blew suddenly when he was 2 blocks from home, white smoke suddenly started pouring out the tailpipe. So it hasn't been driven with coolant in the oil..

gottarollwithit said:
Do you have water in your coolant?
Click to expand...

I guess the coolant is 50/50 like normal. Its green ****. If you meant do I have oil in the coolant, then no. I have started taking it apart, and number 4 had chocolate milk all down the exhaust runner, its obviously blown near number 4. And there was coolant in the brake booster vacuum hose :wtf:
 
check the HEAD (hydro test for internal cracking)
check the DECK (for flat and square and true)
when you go to fire it up post repair get it WARM (*NOT* HOT) and then
change the oil and filter...after you've done your first few heat cycles
change the oil again and add about a half bottle of LUCAS OIL STABILIZER
to the oil...go for your 1000 miles and change out one last time so you can
return to to your *regular service intervals*....
and *YES* check the compression BEFORE you yank the head...you need to know
all you can about this beauty afore ye makes it a pile of parts....
 
What trickmick said about the oil changing, :nod: . I bought a 245 with the same issue and didn't get around to beginning the head change for about a year. Took weeks to start/finish the job because the machine shop took so long decking the head. Meanwhile I took a short cut and grabbed a junkyard head and slapped it on without decking it. Bad idea as that one wasn't flat enough. So I yanked THAT ONE and put on the decked one from the machine shop and ooh baby all's well. After changing the head, drain the milky stuff out and fill with whatever motor oil is on sale along with a new filter. Run it to cycle that oil all through the engine and change the oil again with regular stuff that's on sale cause it won't be in there long. I forgot what oil adative I used but it was probably something on sale that said it "treats/cleans" engines like STP or something. I ran that for about a week of back and forth and then changed the oil and filter again and went with my favorite synthetic Mobil1. I did an early oil change with that one, maybe 2000 miles and checked it every day sometimes twice a day to make sure it looked good. Here's that engine now:


 
Cool thanks. I already ran some cheap no name oil I found in the shed through it in an attempt to flush out at least some of the gunk. The block coolant drain wasn't clogged at all and coolant seemed clean, so I'm hoping its a mostly healthy motor. I've never taken a head to a machine shop here before, been asking around for recommendations, it seems theres only 3 and they are pretty much the same..

Compression was 190, 190, 180, 30. So that also points to expecting a big hole in the gasket near cylinder 4..

Hopefully my buddy can get here tonight to help me lift the head off (I dislocated my shoulder 2 1/2 weeks ago, I'm doing this with my right arm in a sling. Got to do something when I can't surf or snowboard..) Surprisingly easy to get done stuff done with one arm, I'm getting used to it. Just can't lift a head off one handed
 
Grab a leakdown tester and find the leak if you have acces to it. The leakdown kinda goes hand in hand with a comp test. Comp test tell u somethinge wrong. LD tell you where to start/ focus on once its apart.

i know you are already tearing it apart to replace the HG but it goes to what Trick Mick said about knowing all you can before making it a pile of parts.
 
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Guess ya took the thing apart already.

Get a straight edge -- a legitimately straight piece of metal. Lay it diagonally and every which direction on the head's deck and try running a feeler gauge under it. That'll help you gauge how tweaked the head is, if it is at all. It would be wise to just have the machine shop deck the head just in case, that way you are certain that the head is straight.

See if the old head gasket is damaged or obviously blown out. With that much coolant, it might be pretty easy to see. If the head didn't get super hot, it might not be cracked or get tweaked. Sometimes the pressure check really is really more for peace of mind.
 
Yeah, I took it apart. Can't get hold of a leakdown tester, well I can't really afford $70 right now, the head is definitely going to the machine shop.

No catastrophic failure, kind of surprising since there was so much coolant in oil.

P1040104.JPG

P1040108.JPG

Theres definitely damage on number 4, the fire ring is broken, and the gasket is a bit chewed up around there and the coolant passage next to it. I expected a whole piece to be missing. 4 has been cleaned nicely of carbon.

Still see loads of cross hatching on cylinder bores, little ridge of brown (burnt oil residue?) at the top of cylinder

P1040105.JPG

Camshaft has the same brown as the top of cylinders, I think its burnt oil, evidence of heat after oil got diluted? Valve clearances seem to be all too tight to me as well, 0.012ish.

P1040106.JPG
 
I guess I got lucky then. Blew a headgasket due to a new cam and corroded BCP head that was gone all the way to the fire ring on #4, threw on one that came out of a parts car with a blown headgasket on #1.

It was a SCP head, the bottom end was rusted to hell, but the head still seemed in alright shape.
Just drained the crank case, add oil +1 quart of ATF, ran it for a week, then changed it again.

Currently running 21psi out of a V cam. Smokes less then the old head too.
 
So head has some corrosion, needs welding as well as skimming. Gasket has blown because of head corrosion near number 4, it is corroded almost to the fire ring. Looks like its going to be a $250 machine shop bill (everything is more expensive north of the border BTW). Might be worth trying to find a head, not sure I'll find anything better really, I bet whatever I find here has similar corrosion. Shame I'm going to spend all this money on a non-well flowing head, wouldn't feel so bad if it was a 405.. Ah well..

Should I have the hushers installed or is it a total waste of time?
 
Car needs a waterpump too, old one feels really stiff to turn and looks original.. 160 000 miles means it probably is. Want to get it together by this weekend which is the only time my buddy is free to help me (still working left handed here..) so I might have to stump up for one at the dealer, parts stores can only get AC Delco and Beck Arnley and Cardone **** here..

Stupid question, whenever I've done waterpumps I've had to push up on them really hard to get them to seal. Am I going to cause problems by putting the waterpump on before I bolt the head down?
 
I did mine by putting on a new water pump before putting on the head. I just pushed up on it by hand since I had no head on the car. When I put on that rubber gasket I put some vaseline on it so when I dropped the head on it was all up in there firmly. No leaks. So my answer to you is, no problem putting on the water pump 1st. Just push up on it while bolting it down and lubricate the rubber gasket/seal that goes into the head.
 
swiggy said:
- SNIP -
Stupid question, whenever I've done waterpumps I've had to push up on them really hard to get them to seal. Am I going to cause problems by putting the waterpump on before I bolt the head down?
Click to expand...

YES YOU WILL...you run the risk of interfering with the HEAD TORQUE /CLAMPING
LOAD....
1) install head
2) install waterpump (that stupid "ring seal" on the top of the waterpump needs to be
compressed against the head AFTER THE HEAD IS BOLTED ON).....that's what the
*SLOTS* on the waterpump FLANGE are for...so you can PIVOT THE PUMP and
offer it up to the head....
images
 
Can't just fish a head outta the JY and have it resurfaced and cleaned? Even with our crap pricing out here, i can get a JY head for under $100.

Then again, if $250 buys you a legit and known working head, its probably worth it just to pay it. Your time and efforts at the JY are valuable too.
Maybe do a little gasket matching with a dremel before sending it off to the MS for cleaning/repair?
 
But is it worth putting money into a crappy stock BCP head?
$250 will get you a complete motor with accessories and more at a local yard.
 
Cheers Mick. Makes sense.

No JY's round here, parts cars often pop up cheap but they aren't always around to order. Right now there is somebody selling a b230f for $250. But this is my girlfriends car not mine, even though I'm working on it, and its never going to be fast, so I dunno if stock head is really a problem. She just wants a reliable slow car. I might gasket match it actually, its already at the machine shop though. I can clean it myself after a little dremel work.
 
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