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Old 09-11-2018, 10:19 PM   #1
arjunsw
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Post '82 245 No Start/Fuel Issue

Hey guys,

ive been trying to fix up a '82 245, i havent touched it in a while and when i recently went to go start it back up, i got a no start. Before this the battery had died so i replaced that as well.

I used some starting fluid/spray and it started and ran fine for a short time. Next I disconnected the fuel line after the fuel pressure regulator, and no gas came out other than some residual that was already there i think. But it did crank more lively, and sounded like it was about to start up.

The fuel thats been in there has been there for a long time, I was away at uni and none of my family drove it in the time I was gone. What should be my next steps?
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Old 09-11-2018, 10:32 PM   #2
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The starter fluid says that the ignition system is working to some extent. Also, there is enough compression to run. That leaves fuel.

Verify that both lift pump and pressure pump run. That is easier said than done. Fuel pump relay must operate which means that there is a pulsing ignition voltage. Jump the relay to verify pump operation.

Guessing that you do not have the relay schematic to do that you need to learn where to find it. http://volvowiringdiagrams.com/

Post back as you work through the diagnostics and we will help.
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Old 09-11-2018, 11:06 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arjunsw View Post

The fuel thats been in there has been there for a long time, I was away at uni and none of my family drove it in the time I was gone. What should be my next steps?
Drain the old gas and put in fresh gas
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Old 09-11-2018, 11:24 PM   #4
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See if it stays running on pulses of spray!
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Old 09-12-2018, 04:23 PM   #5
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Quote:
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Verify that both lift pump and pressure pump run. That is easier said than done. Fuel pump relay must operate which means that there is a pulsing ignition voltage. Jump the relay to verify pump operation.
I used a paper clip to jump it at the fuse, shown here, http://cleanflametrap.com/transferPump.htm and here http://www.240turbo.com/volvorelays.html, and put my head as close to the main fuel pump as I could (not underneath the car), i didn't hear anything. I also disconnected the fuel pressure regulator and nothing came out while i cranked or while the paper clip was in. There was more residual in the hose, but that could be from farther up the line. I didn't put my ear near the filler neck, and there were sparks when i connected the paper clip, but neither of the fuses blew.

Quote:
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Drain the old gas and put in fresh gas
If i have to change the fuel pump, which it looks like ill have to do, ill definitely be doing this as well. What would be the best way to do so?

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See if it stays running on pulses of spray!
i tried this and had it running for the longest it has recently, i had the jumping paper clip in as well. once i stopped spraying the engine stopped, and it sounded like a loss of vacuum(?) at the end, a whirring that somewhat slowly went away.

Last edited by arjunsw; 09-12-2018 at 04:37 PM..
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Old 09-12-2018, 08:09 PM   #6
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You DISABLE the fuel system and then run it off the spray can into the throttle. I don't like pushing trucks with dead fuel pumps, for example, so one man is under the hood pulsing the spray and another man drives.

If the mechanical and ignition are working, believe me, you can idle an engine and even idle it slowly into a work bay as long as you keep pulsing brake cleaner in the engine.

In your case, this serves as diag to narrow down if it's a fuel issue or not. Being kjet it probably is...
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Old 09-12-2018, 08:40 PM   #7
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If the mechanical and ignition are working, believe me, you can idle an engine and even idle it slowly into a work bay as long as you keep pulsing brake cleaner in the engine.

In your case, this serves as diag to narrow down if it's a fuel issue or not. Being kjet it probably is...
If i had kept spraying the starter spray im sure it wouldve kept going. What does doing that tell you about the fuel system though?

Is it a kjet? I was told it was a LH1.0, but i cant really find any info on that
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Old 09-12-2018, 08:57 PM   #8
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Oh yeah it may be 1.0LH. Anyways, alternate fuel (spray) usually narrows it down to fuel system. I did, one time, see a Honda run on brake cleaner with a damaged crank sensor.

Disable the fuel system and see if you can keep it running pulsing it. Then if so, shake down the fuel system. Jump the pumps manually with a jumper wire or put a meter in line in the circuit set on amps and check for life.

You may have anything from a dead MAF, to wiring issues, to dead pump/s, computer issues, fuel pressure issues. Just add 20 years experience and you should be able to diagnose it in under an hour. OBD 2 cars are nice because I get to use a scan tool.
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Old 09-12-2018, 10:06 PM   #9
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Try tapping on the main pump under the car with the fuel pump relay bypassed. Use a soft hammer (plastic or rubber ) or a screwdriver handle. It's common for the pumps to get stuck when they sit for a long time.
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Old 09-17-2018, 03:45 PM   #10
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Ok! Got back to working on it after the weekend, and progress!

So the first thing i did was put a meter in place of the fuse 7, which is the main pump fuse that also goes to the relay. 11.5 - 12 V and 0.65 A, when just on the 2nd key slot. The voltage at the fuses would also dip down to 0 V, it looked like it was making a square wave or something, as it wasn't completely random. If i had a better meter I may have been able to see it better.

Then i got underneath the car and measured the wires going into the fuel pump. I didn't get anything until i jumped fuses 5 and 7 like in here (http://www.240turbo.com/volvorelays.html). I then got the same 11.5 -12 V and 0.65 A (or a similar amperage, don't remember 100%). This melted the insulation on my paper clip from bright yellow to burnt black hah!

I also tapped the fuel pump with a rubber mallet and it started spinning! But only for a brief period, and with some noise inside, like rubbing or scratching or something. I was able to tap the pump, jump up and crank the car. It started and idled! but only for a few seconds. This also happened last summer too i believe, idling and then stopping. I was also only able to get the fuel pump to spin with the fuses jumped too.

any ideas on what would be next? Could it be both the relay and the pump, or does that mean something bigger is wrong too for both things to go bad?
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Old 09-17-2018, 08:58 PM   #11
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Focus!

If pulsing spray allows the engine to run then it is FUEL.

Your description of fuel pump says that it is not running reliably. There is enough evidence that the pump is bad to have a professional tech replace it. If you must run a wire from the fuse panel to the pump to verify that the pump runs or not.
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Old 09-18-2018, 06:48 PM   #12
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Right, because you need air, fuel, spark, and compression, and if adding the spray makes it work, the fuels that part missing? Did i jump around too much in my fault checking earlier?

If possible id love to do it myself, id just need to know the parts and tools needed. Would it be wise to change the in tank fuel pump, relay, and fuel filter too?
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Old 09-18-2018, 07:03 PM   #13
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You have already described that the pressure pump did not run until bumping it then unreliably. The pressure pump has a habit of failing when not being run regularly. You are authorized to replace the pressure pump.

The tank lift pump can be heard at the fuel fill door if it is running. If no sound when fuse jumped then plan on it.

Of course the filter needs changing. The tank will have rusted some without regular use and the fuel distributor really hates rust. I would pump the tank dry of the old fuel and start over.



No special tools or bypass substitution tools are all you need.

Last edited by TestPoint; 09-18-2018 at 07:14 PM..
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Old 09-18-2018, 07:04 PM   #14
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Do diag!!! Get a test lamp and go for the easy access stuff first. Learn to read a wiring diagram.

Yes, if it runs on alternate fuel, I would go towards fuel system diag.

Essential tools are a $5 test light and a $15 noid light kit to check injector pulse. No parts darts! That's a waste of beer money.

I would go for the kill and get underneath the car and confirm the test light illuminates connected between the fuel pump wires. Disconnect them, connect a light in between the power and ground wire for the fuel pump. Crank. Stay on while cranking? If so, the circuits good. Listen to the pump with a $5 stethoscope.

Or pay the shop $150 and get an answer.
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Old 09-20-2018, 03:53 PM   #15
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So i measured underneath with an multimeter (hope thats similar to a test light), and got 0 V and 0 A until i jumped the relay. Once i jumped the relay i measured 12 V and 0.65 A. This was all under key position II. I reconnected it underneath, and measured the current at the relay jump (so thats inline with the jump right?), and got 1 A. Also it was able to idle, but the second i touched the accelerator, it stopped dead. So the fuel pump has a smidge of life left in it?

I also tried listening for the in tank pump at the fuel fill door, and couldn't hear anything. So, so far its at least: main fuel pump & filter, and possibly relay and in tank pump?
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Old 09-20-2018, 04:07 PM   #16
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Test lamp is better. Car will usually run with dead tank pump. You may be looking in the wrong direction.

You may have air leaks. Spray around with brake cleaner and see if you can get the idle to change or sputter the engine. Accordion hose is most common leak. MAF could be dead too.

Use that meter on the o2 sensor. Peel back the rubber boot and go between it and ground. Should swing from 0.1 to 0.9v at idle. Try it at 2000 rpm too.
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Old 09-21-2018, 04:45 PM   #17
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so i tried doing this, I took a bottle of soapy water (hope that would have the same effect as brake cleaner) and sprayed it on the accordion tube. But when i tried to start it, it didnt start again. jumped fuse 5 and 7, and checked fuse 13 (which i now know gives power to the relay), and still nothing.

I did take a look at the o2 sensor, and it looked new, clean connection and wire, not like the other wires ive found while poking around.

Also how does a bad MAF and o2 sensor cause a no start? does it throw bad math for fuel injection or something else to do with the AFR?

Last edited by arjunsw; 09-21-2018 at 04:56 PM..
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Old 09-21-2018, 04:55 PM   #18
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O2 sesnor won't cause a no start.

Bad MAF can cause a misfuel and a no start.

Fuel pressure fittings are difficult to come by on these so you have to get creative.

You can't measure current with the item on the circuit disconnected. You would put the meter inline with the circuit.

Get clever and find a way to jump the main pump.

If it stays running on starting fluid you need to continue to shake down the fuel system. Where did you spray it? Brake cleaner is used to track down air leaks. Soapy water doesn't burn.

Last edited by ZVOLV; 09-21-2018 at 05:36 PM..
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Old 09-21-2018, 07:46 PM   #19
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Quote:
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Get clever and find a way to jump the main pump.

If it stays running on starting fluid you need to continue to shake down the fuel system. Where did you spray it? Brake cleaner is used to track down air leaks. Soapy water doesn't burn.
So I got power to the fuel pump by bypassing the relay at the fuses, and i got 12 V going to the pump. It was really rattly and only worked when i bonked it with a mallet.

I sprayed it in right before the MAF and after the air filter. Ah, that makes sense, does WD-40 work too, or is that just half-assing it.


Also in an attempt to not play parts darts, i tried to test the fuel pump relay with another relay, and the fuel pump relay was fine once it was in another socket. Its like the socket wasn't allowing the relay to switch on, but it was measuring 12 V on the blue-red and red wires (the ones in this manual, on pg 24 http://volvowiringdiagrams.com/volvo...982%20Only.pdf). I paperclip jumped the relay at the relay plugs, and got 12 V at the fuel pump.


and if im missing something or jumping around randomly im sorry, please feel free to tell me when and where im messing up.
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Old 09-21-2018, 09:11 PM   #20
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Click my sig. I tell you how to spray ether directly into throttle body. WD40 isn't the best but may work. Brake cleaner or starting fluid works well.
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Old 09-21-2018, 09:16 PM   #21
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In my last visit to my favorite auto parts store I noticed that at least one brand of brake cleaner advertised that it was now environmentally friendly in that it was not flammable.
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Old 09-21-2018, 09:30 PM   #22
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Use starting fluid.
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Old 09-26-2018, 07:59 PM   #23
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So i took my starting spray and sprayed it on the accordion hose (this was to see if it would leak in and start it im assuming), nothing.

I also just pulsed spray into the intake again while it was running, it ran fine and didnt sound like it had any hiccups (but i dont really know what to listen exactly for).

I checked the connection on the MAF, seemed a little dirty so i cleaned it just in case with an electronics cleaner (ive used it on amps and kettles before). That didnt change anything.

And i also took another listen to the fuel pump relay, it did click while cranking. (Would this mean somethings not energizing it until i crank? is that normal?)

I tried finding replacement fuel pumps & filters, i found the main pump & filter easily, but couldnt find an in-tank one at all. Also would i need to change hose clamps, or other little bits that dont come with the pump?


EDIT: also i recently asked my dad why it didnt pass smog last time we sent it in, he said the tests had too much NOx, and also that he changed the MAF tuning screw, but this was a couple years ago, so before the no-start,

Last edited by arjunsw; 09-28-2018 at 04:53 PM..
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Old 09-26-2018, 08:09 PM   #24
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The intake fuel pump should come with 2 new clamps and one hose. I recently purchased one and it came with those parts.
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Old 09-28-2018, 04:58 PM   #25
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so ill be changing the fuel bits soon, but before i buy them i had a question. If i was planning on change it from LH1.0 to LH2.2, or even +T it as long term plans, should i get bigger fuel pumps now since im already replacing them, or just stick with what fit originally? would stronger fuel pumps cause any pressure issues if im not using the extra fuel they supply yet?

i had these two in mind.
https://www.amazon.com/Bosch-61944-U.../dp/B003WL73OK
https://www.amazon.com/WALBRO-255LPH.../dp/B0098MC3GU
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