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Old 10-07-2018, 10:19 AM   #1
240-FAN
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Default Help me with my first engine project - timing belt and camshaft change

As it turns out, the brakes on my car was pretty jacked up and I’m in the process of replacing all my calipers once I get them from RockAuto.

In the meantime, I tore the front of my engine apart and found the intermediate shaft and crankshaft seal were Elring’s that we’re leaking pretty badly.
Turns out the dealership gave me wrong parts, so those will be Re-ordered Monday.

Now, while I have everything apart, I decided to replace the water pump with a Hepu unit.
All went ok until one of the studs decided to snap before I even got to 16 ft lbs!!

Does anyone know the part number of these studs (the ones that go into the block and help position the water pump) or where I can buy them?

While I have the timing belt cover off (tension still on) I tried to remove the bolts for the camshaft (followed a YouTube video, I know I know) and all the pulleys moved from their resting position. But the camshaft pulley gear moved. I turned it back to the approximate location where it was, but not very precise.. So I’m assuming for now, I haven’t screwed up anything?
I did proceed to take the pulley bolts off with an impact and then tension off the t-belt to pull everything off.

Finally, can I do my camshaft change with the timing belt off? If so, would rotating the camshaft create any more problems?
TDC would mean that the first lobe (closer to front of the car) for each of the cylinders is pointing straight up - correct?
Do I need to measure the lash with the existing camshaft or do I swap in the new one and then measure?
Is there a way to measure the lash prior to new camshaft install so that I can measure lash, swap in/out the shins and then install the new camshaft?
Do the hushers go below the “buckets”?

These are probably super easy questions, but as this is my first engine job, I’m nervous.

Any helps or advice would be greatly appreciated

Last edited by 240-FAN; 10-07-2018 at 11:05 AM..
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Old 10-07-2018, 12:34 PM   #2
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Oh boy
Dealer can look up those studs
Did you get old ones out?

Something something came moved ? Don’t matter it will get aligned by you when you do timing belt

Replace cam then measure/adjust
Hushes go under the shim bucket AFTER you got the correct shimming done


Grease top water pump bushing prior to installation
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Old 10-07-2018, 01:27 PM   #3
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Torquing hardware is rookie ****.

Good luck getting that out. If you have to you can oversize the hole and go with an insert or bigger bolt.
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Old 10-07-2018, 01:31 PM   #4
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Managed to get the old ones out. I'm going to replace both the studs. If one failed, I'm going to assume the second one is not too far behind.

How do I know when the cylinder is at TDC?
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Old 10-07-2018, 01:33 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZVOLV View Post
Torquing hardware is rookie ****.
^^Words of wisdom right there. Just use a 1/4” drive ratchet, grab it at the HEAD (as to decrease leverage), and get everything snug like that. The more you work on stuff, the more you get the feel of 'tight enough' but not too tight.
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Old 10-07-2018, 01:37 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by 240-FAN View Post
Managed to get the old ones out. I'm going to replace both the studs. If one failed, I'm going to assume the second one is not too far behind.

How do I know when the cylinder is at TDC?
Cylinder one is at TDC when piston 1 is at the very top of its compression stroke and both valves, intake and exhaust, are shut.

There’s a timing washer by the crank gear that will align with a little boss on the front of the block. I’ll insert pics in a second. When those are lined up, piston is all the way up. You can also tell it’s at TDC without removing the harmonic balancer by aligning the slits on the harmonic balancer with the '0' mark on the lower timing cover. Only reason we recommend against this is because they can slip causing inaccurate readings.

Cam is at its TDC position when the first two lobes are facing upward and about 45 degrees from each other..also when the cam gear dimple aligns with the rear timing cover mark.

Here’s what it looks like in TDC with the harmonic balancer removed. Notice the slit in the front washer aligning with the boss on the block.


And here’s what the cam gear looks like at TDC.


Assuming the balancer hasn’t slipped, this is TDC with everything still together.


Lastly, don’t forget to keep the auxiliary shaft in time too, because it drives the distributor on a 240.

Last edited by PromiseRing; 10-07-2018 at 01:43 PM..
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Old 10-07-2018, 05:48 PM   #7
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Thank you PromiseRing, that is indeed a very detailed post.

My seals were so leaky I couldn't see any of the markings/bosses, etc.
I have all the pulleys and belt and tensioner off since yesterday evening. Do I need to put these all back and align the timing or can I go ahead and swap out the camshaft -> install the new studs and water pump and then do install of the timing components?

Last edited by 240-FAN; 10-07-2018 at 05:55 PM..
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Old 10-07-2018, 05:53 PM   #8
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You can time it afterwards. These are non interference engines (assuming head isn’t shaved a bunch with a fat cam), so there’s no risk in engine damage by just timing it later on.

I would remove the gears in front of the leaking seals, like cam, crank, and aux, and then clean everything very very well so it’s nicer to work on in the future.
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Old 10-07-2018, 06:11 PM   #9
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Understood. I'll be ordering the parts tomorrow at the local dealership, so it's probably going to be end of the week before I get back to the car.

My understanding from reading older posts is that going from the stock M cam to B cam would still mean a non interference engine? Head on the car is untouched.

Also, how do I know the torque on these WP bolts/nuts? I was using a 1/2" drive to get to 16 lb-ft based on the Haynes manual. But is "snug" with a 1/4" ratchet sufficient?
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Old 10-07-2018, 06:44 PM   #10
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B cam will not make the engine interference, but it is a good upgrade over the M cam, especially with a manual transmission.

Snug with a 1/4” ratchet is plenty tight. Always easier to snug up a loose bolt later on than to remove everything to extract a broken stud. Just remember to grab it by the head, or use extreme caution if holding the handle. Also where did you get the 16 lb-ft number? Not sure what spec is but to me that is rather high for an m6 bolt/stud.

Here’s a quote by our lord and savior.
Quote:
Originally Posted by John V, outside agitator View Post
What bolt is it?
M8?
The torque goes with the fastener--diameter, pitch and material.
M8 or 5/16 UNC is 15-18 ft/lbs---5/16 UNF Grade 8 is 26-28 ft/lbs

M6 or 1/4- 20 is "not even a girlie grunt"
Oh and one more thing! Use a 1/4" torque wrench for smaller things if you'd like to use a torque wrench. By using those bigger ones (1/2" drive) they are far less accurate at lower numbers. In the same way, a 1/4" isn't as accurate as higher numbers in comparison to the 1/2" at higher torque levels.

By using that 1/2" at 16 lb-ft, torque levels could've been much higher than the readout.

Last edited by PromiseRing; 10-07-2018 at 07:31 PM..
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Old 10-07-2018, 07:12 PM   #11
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hahaha I'll remember that torque spec.
the 16 lb-ft came from the Haynes Manual (forget which section) - but it says "water pump bolts and nuts". It's definitely high for a M6.
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Old 10-07-2018, 07:28 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 240-FAN View Post
hahaha I'll remember that torque spec.
the 16 lb-ft came from the Haynes Manual (forget which section) - but it says "water pump bolts and nuts". It's definitely high for a M6.
Oddly enough, I was not able to find those torque specs in the Bentley bible (which is MUCH better than the Haynes, I highly recommend investing in one and keeping it in the trunk). I may have overlooked it though, but mine just says 'tighten'.

Just as I suspected, that 16 lb-ft number is way too tight.
http://www.calgaryvolvoclub.com/foru...php?f=1&t=3029

A good rounded number for an m6 fastener with a rating of 8.8 seems to be about 8lb-ft
https://www.fastenal.com/content/fed...0Fasteners.pdf
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Old 10-08-2018, 11:12 AM   #13
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The Fastenal values seem accurate. It was past midnight and I guess I didn’t even think of double checking the torque values

When I swap out the camshaft, do I just install the new one in the orientation of the existing one?
Also, would it make sense to measure the thickness of the shims in each of buckets while I have the camshaft out?

Finally, I’ll be installing Dale’s gear as well. I’m thinking of going +4 degrees. Any thoughts on that?
It’s a stock 2.3 with the AW70 4 spd auto.
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Old 10-08-2018, 11:19 AM   #14
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Ideally you should put the new shaft in, in the same orientation as the other cam (top dead center), but realistically it doesnt even matter because you can just spin it to the correct position via the bolt holding the cam sprocket on. Valves and pistons will not collide.

Yeah just measure the shims of each one and keep a note of them on paper or a note on your phone. You will probably get away with not having to reshim. I have never had to re shim when going from a stock cam to another stock cam, but that is NOT to say it will be the same for you. Measure clearances after the cam install and see if they’re within spec. If not, do the math and see which shims will be needed to bring it within spec. Double check, but I think spec is .016” cold motor. (.014”-.018”, .016” is right in the middle). But DOUBLE CHECK because that’s just off the top of my head.

Not sure on cam timing. You can play with it but +4 should be okay and bring the torque curve DOWN which is needed with the aw70 I’d imagine.
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Old 10-08-2018, 01:12 PM   #15
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Given that I'm not sure if the cam's at TDC currently, I will install the B cam in the same orientation as the existing one and then line up everything during the timing belt install.
That's good to know on the shims - I'm hoping I do not have to adjust valve clearances. That being said though, the engine note is pretty clackety. Kinda hoping the hushers will fix that.

An old write up here says 0.04"-0.016" cold, so you're numbers are pretty much on the mark.

If advancing timing helps with bringing the torque curve down, would it help going +6 degrees then? The automatic always seems to be struggling.
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Old 10-08-2018, 01:38 PM   #16
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It will be in TDC or at least close, when the first 2 lobes are facing upwards (meaning both valves are closed). Not sure on the advancing. Play with it and see what you like best.

These engines should sound like a sewing machine when healthy. They are rather noisy in comparison to other engines, so don’t expect 2jz smoothness. I have seen people recommend against the hushers because they end up in the oil pickup screen a few thousand miles later. Who knows
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Old 10-08-2018, 03:38 PM   #17
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inb4 partout
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Old 10-08-2018, 03:42 PM   #18
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inb4 partout
I'm really hoping I don't end up having to partout my car
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Old 10-08-2018, 03:49 PM   #19
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I saw the old threads and it looks like hushers are temporary, but people throw them on there anyways?
The first lobe is pointing kinda upwards and the second lobe is kinda downwards (I'll post pictures later tonight). So, I doubt it if I'm close to TDC.

On the Dale's gear - are there any instructions on how to install it correctly (to avoid any future f'eries)?
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Old 10-08-2018, 04:22 PM   #20
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16 inch pounds is probably what it was
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Old 10-08-2018, 04:35 PM   #21
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16 lb ft is what it is. Sadly, as I found out the hard way, that’s the wrong value.
Adjustable timing gear install is the next thing I’m trying to understand.

Is Dale still active around here? Or does anyone have the instructions that they could send me?
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Old 10-08-2018, 10:47 PM   #22
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Here's a picture of the camshaft as it sits. How far do I rotate this to get to TDC? Does lobe 1 have to point straight up?

Edit: Can't seem to upload the pic. So here' a link to it.
https://imgur.com/a/guGRzkn
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Old 10-08-2018, 11:05 PM   #23
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Turn the cam until both lobes on cylinder 1 are pointing away from the head at equal but opposite angles relative to the valve cover sealing surface.
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Old 10-08-2018, 11:26 PM   #24
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OP, notice how your cylinder 1 intake valve is depressed by the cam right now. You should be able to see the tip of both of cylinder 1s lobes. That way both valves are closed. That will be close to TDC. You need to turn the engine clockwise 90+ degrees or so.
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Old 10-09-2018, 09:19 AM   #25
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Thanks @hiperfauto and @PromiseRing. That helps clarify it for me. My plan now is to just swap the cams out in the existing orientation and measure the shims while I'm at it. If I need to re-shim, I will measure each of the cylinders in the TDC orientation.

I think the last question I can think of what I'm not quite sure about is the adjustable timing gear installation.

Ordered parts from the local Volvo dealership and parts should be here end of the week.
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