home register FAQ memberlist calendar

Go Back   Turbobricks Forums > Mechanical > performance & modifications

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-20-2014, 12:03 AM   #1
2-3 Heaven
Board Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Golden Valley, ND
Default T5 swap gone bad

So my M47 went in my '90 245. I figured why not do a T5 swap. Got the fluid in it tonight and fired up the car to a slight squeaking from the trans. It wasn't bad and went away with light pressure on the clutch pedal.

The big problem comes in when I push the pedal in further. I get a couple of inches of travel without issue, but then I get some nasty grinding. I tried pushing the pedal in a little past where it started and the engine starts to die. Below is my setup. Please help guys. Oh, the pedal is adjusted so I have an 1/8" of freeplay at the fork which is basically maxed out the adjustment on the cable.

WCT5 from a '95 Mustang V6
'93 Mustang V8 input shaft
Trimmed bearing sleeve .68" to match shorter input shaft
Mustang V8 TO bearing
Mustang 4cyl turbo 9" disc
Stock Volvo pressure plate
Stock Volvo dogdish flywheel
M46 clutch fork w/ Kaplhenke blocks
Triangles Unlimited spacer
2-3 Heaven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2014, 02:11 AM   #2
sbabbs
Board Member
 
sbabbs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Rushing Lane, Scappoose, OR
Default

We'll on any manual transmission if you push the throw out bearing too far it will push the pressure plate fingers into the clutch disc. Common problem. You need to adjust something so your not pushing it too far.
__________________
1988 245 White slicktop M47 Wagon! 2.5L NA 8v going in.
1990 745 B230FT M46 13c A-cam 3.54 540K MILES slippin clutch
1991 740SE B230FT NPR Strut braces IPD bar A cam 550cc EV14's. M90 to put in.
sbabbs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2014, 07:44 AM   #3
poulrais
Board Member
 
poulrais's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Quebec, CAN
Default

Clutch disk put in with wrong side facing the FW?
__________________


1990, Volvo 740 16v +T
1991, Volvo 745T 16V - crushed
build thread: http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=249553
poulrais is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2014, 08:50 AM   #4
SwedishBee
Drill em deep
 
SwedishBee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: TX
Default

Should this setup have Volvo or Ford throw out bearing?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyChopStick View Post
I bought an 850.
SwedishBee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2014, 09:07 AM   #5
Lord_Athlon
Sf1k Kryptonite
 
Lord_Athlon's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: If there were a bright center of the universe, im in the town that is furthest from
Default

Ford. He said hes using the ford bearing retainer.
__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZVOLV View Post
I used paper books to learn how to do this stuff back in the day. Now I use pro software subscription
Quote:
Originally Posted by rvolvor
3/4", make everything as heavy as possible for no reason. It's also 4:1 compression ratio because that's how cosworth did it in 1978.
Lord_Athlon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2014, 09:50 AM   #6
soclosenotnear
Board Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: summerville, south carolina
Default

What are the blocks and spacer? Does it matter if you use the m46/m47 clutch fork?
soclosenotnear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2014, 09:51 AM   #7
blkaplan
50 shades of beige
 
blkaplan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Rockville, MD
Default

The v8 ford TO bearing is really short and not a good match for the height needed for the Volvo pressureplate.

My guess is your clutch fork is hitting the pressureplate.

Other thing you should check is clutch pedalwear. Sometimes the hole becomes a slot and that can really mess up your engagement range.
__________________
www.BEIGEPOWER.com
Kaplhenke Racing Facebook
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkKratoz View Post
The only safe bet is Ben.©
blkaplan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2014, 10:16 AM   #8
Mylesofsmyles
Board Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Default

Volvo Spec for clutch fork free play is 1.5mm, not 1/8", though I don't think that'll help your issue any.
Mylesofsmyles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2014, 10:22 AM   #9
blkaplan
50 shades of beige
 
blkaplan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Rockville, MD
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mylesofsmyles View Post
Volvo Spec for clutch fork free play is 1.5mm, not 1/8", though I don't think that'll help your issue any.
That won't make any difference.
blkaplan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2014, 11:32 AM   #10
2-3 Heaven
Board Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Golden Valley, ND
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sbabbs View Post
We'll on any manual transmission if you push the throw out bearing too far it will push the pressure plate fingers into the clutch disc. Common problem. You need to adjust something so your not pushing it too far.
I guess I should have mentioned that the clutch isn't disengaging, so I don't think that this is it.
2-3 Heaven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2014, 11:35 AM   #11
Chewy
Board Member
 
Chewy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Corona, CA
Default

Disc too thick?

Able to measure stock disc vs mustang disc?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by alreadyupsidedown View Post
Just think of K-jet as an extremely complicated mechanical Rube-Goldberg carburetor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by volvo240skunk37 View Post
Good God son, you're just a pile of fail.

A-A-Ron
Now: 69 142 "Inga" Build Thread
Had: 80 242 "Elsa" Build Thread
Chewy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2014, 11:36 AM   #12
2-3 Heaven
Board Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Golden Valley, ND
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by poulrais View Post
Clutch disk put in with wrong side facing the FW?
I double-checked this before I installed everything else. Plus it looked like the disc wouldn't have even installed clearance-wise the other way due to interference with the flywheel and pilot bearing.
2-3 Heaven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2014, 11:37 AM   #13
2-3 Heaven
Board Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Golden Valley, ND
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blkaplan View Post
The v8 ford TO bearing is really short and not a good match for the height needed for the Volvo pressureplate.

My guess is your clutch fork is hitting the pressureplate.

Other thing you should check is clutch pedalwear. Sometimes the hole becomes a slot and that can really mess up your engagement range.
The clutch pedal feels good, but I'll check it out.

What TO bearing should I use instead? Will I need to change the bearing retainer as well?
2-3 Heaven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2014, 11:42 AM   #14
2-3 Heaven
Board Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Golden Valley, ND
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chewy View Post
Disc too thick?

Able to measure stock disc vs mustang disc?
I didn't measure them but did just take a quick look side by side. They looked incredibly close. I just swapped stock Volvo for stock 4cyl Mustang. The Volvo disc was only a few months old with basically no miles. How much difference would you need to create an issue?
2-3 Heaven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2014, 12:06 PM   #15
blkaplan
50 shades of beige
 
blkaplan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Rockville, MD
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2-3 Heaven View Post
The clutch pedal feels good, but I'll check it out.

What TO bearing should I use instead? Will I need to change the bearing retainer as well?
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mcl-16515

These work great, lets you get it all setup pretty nicely.
blkaplan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2014, 12:53 PM   #16
Mylesofsmyles
Board Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blkaplan View Post
That won't make any difference.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2-3 Heaven View Post
I guess I should have mentioned that the clutch isn't disengaging, so I don't think that this is it.
Hmmm, sounds like the freeplay I mentioned is suspect...

Maybe you should adjust it within spec.

Also, when I did my T5 Conversions, I had trouble with the "aftermarket" style clutch cable...I couldn't get enough adjustment. I exclusively use the O.E. style, where the set knob, threads onto the cable housing itself....the other style, with limited adjustment on plastic fine threads doesn't get tight enough.

O.P. you mentioned grinding....as in grinding when trying to engage a gear or just in general? If the clutch doesn't fully disengage, then it'll grind going into gear...I'm sure you know this.

Sounds an awful lot, like the clutch cable adjustment is off. 1.5MM freeplay is SPEC for VOLVO
Mylesofsmyles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2014, 12:54 PM   #17
Lord_Athlon
Sf1k Kryptonite
 
Lord_Athlon's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: If there were a bright center of the universe, im in the town that is furthest from
Default

He is saying it grinds when he puts in the clutch. Freeplay wont make it do that.
Lord_Athlon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2014, 01:11 PM   #18
2-3 Heaven
Board Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Golden Valley, ND
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blkaplan View Post
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mcl-16515

These work great, lets you get it all setup pretty nicely.
Perfect, thanks. I'll pull the trans tomorrow to make sure, but this looks like the issue.

Not to go all TB on you, but wouldn't spacing out the pivot ball work as well?
2-3 Heaven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2014, 01:16 PM   #19
2-3 Heaven
Board Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Golden Valley, ND
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mylesofsmyles View Post
Hmmm, sounds like the freeplay I mentioned is suspect...

Maybe you should adjust it within spec.

Also, when I did my T5 Conversions, I had trouble with the "aftermarket" style clutch cable...I couldn't get enough adjustment. I exclusively use the O.E. style, where the set knob, threads onto the cable housing itself....the other style, with limited adjustment on plastic fine threads doesn't get tight enough.

O.P. you mentioned grinding....as in grinding when trying to engage a gear or just in general? If the clutch doesn't fully disengage, then it'll grind going into gear...I'm sure you know this.

Sounds an awful lot, like the clutch cable adjustment is off. 1.5MM freeplay is SPEC for VOLVO
I can see your point, but it is grinding from the bellhousing without even trying to get it into gear, which I don't see happening if it is just an adjustment issue. I'll nail down the adjustment once the grinding is cleared up and I have a fork return spring installed. I have enough adjustment to get it within spec, but nothing more. I'm guessing once I have the proper length TO bearing installed, I'll gain a bunch of adjustment.



Damian
2-3 Heaven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2014, 01:44 PM   #20
Falconxl
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Covina, CA
Default

Check to make sure the bearing retainer is not pushing the clutch disc up against the flywheel. When I did my T-5 swap the clutch would not release even after adjusting the cable and shimming the pivot with no change we measured the distance to the center hub of the clutch disc and discovered the retainer was pushing on it, so I had to trim about 1/8" off the retainer to get the clearance from the clutch disc. Transmission was from a 91 Mustang GT so it should have fit without problems, may have just been a bunch of small variances that all added up to the interference.
Falconxl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2014, 01:58 PM   #21
2-3 Heaven
Board Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Golden Valley, ND
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Falconxl View Post
Check to make sure the bearing retainer is not pushing the clutch disc up against the flywheel. When I did my T-5 swap the clutch would not release even after adjusting the cable and shimming the pivot with no change we measured the distance to the center hub of the clutch disc and discovered the retainer was pushing on it, so I had to trim about 1/8" off the retainer to get the clearance from the clutch disc. Transmission was from a 91 Mustang GT so it should have fit without problems, may have just been a bunch of small variances that all added up to the interference.
That's the one thing I didn't measure, if I'm honest. I shortened it to match the input shaft change, but never actually checked the clearance. I don't think it would cause the other issues I'm having, but I will certainly look it over before I throw the trans back in.

How did shimming the pivot work for you? I don't mind ordering the bearing that Ben recommended, but I'm being a bit impatient. I just did coilovers and most of the poly bushings in the car, and I'm getting antsy to drive it.
2-3 Heaven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2014, 02:06 PM   #22
DaveD
Board Member
 
DaveD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: New Jersey
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blkaplan View Post
My guess is your clutch fork is hitting the pressureplate.
This is what happened to me. Fork would travel too far and contact pressure plate.
__________________
Build Thread
DaveD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2014, 05:19 PM   #23
Hank Scorpio
Chubfest 2009 Survivor
 
Hank Scorpio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The neighborhood with the ******* guitar player.
Default

When I did this years ago before the to adapters, my Volvo TO wouldn't make contact before the fork hit the PP. Should be easy enough to visually see thru the bellhousing hole while someone works the clutch.
__________________
Hank Scorpio is from the Simpsons. You can call me Doug ;)
Will trade guitars/guitar parts for go fast goodies or stuff I need. Just PM.
www.kauerguitars.com the second best way to upset neighbors and alienate people.
History: Car 1 (242) | Car 2 (t5r) | Car 3 (255)
Hank Scorpio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2014, 12:07 AM   #24
Mylesofsmyles
Board Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Default

Could also have a broken rivet on the fork pivot ball
Mylesofsmyles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2014, 08:53 AM   #25
Canadan
Board Member
 
Canadan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Oregon
Default

Could just pull the trans and find out yourself instead of asking for speculation. ..just saying
Canadan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:38 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.