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Old 05-28-2018, 03:33 PM   #1
bmdubya1198
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Default No fuel at the rail, both pumps new and working

I'm at the point now that I have spark and injector pulse (only with a y-jumper, I guess my working fuel system relay is dead) but my 740 STILL won't start. After pulling the fuel line at the rail, nothing came out. I blew some air through the line from the fuel filter and the line is clear, air came through and sprayed a small amount of fuel out of the hose.

I know for sure both pumps are running, and they are both new. I just went through a lot of work replacing the in-tank pump and cleaning nasty old rancid gas from the tank, and now it's all back together. I put a couple gallons of fresh 93 in and it still isn't getting fuel at the rail. Do I need more gas? I can't think of any other reason this is happening.

This car is driving me absolutely insane.
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Old 05-28-2018, 04:47 PM   #2
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You sure one of the pumps isn't wired backwards?
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Old 05-28-2018, 05:19 PM   #3
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Pretty sure they're correct. I know for sure they are both running.

I have 6 gallons of gas in the car, no reason at all that shouldn't be enough. After pulling the feed line to the rail there is pressure out when I put my finger over it, so I assume the pumps are pumping properly.
I'm ready to burn this piece of crap to the ground, a car has never driven me so insane. It's possessed.
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Old 05-28-2018, 06:08 PM   #4
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Pulled the line off the tank pump and there is no pressure at all, and it's bone dry. There is no gas coming out of the pump/sending unit. How is this even possible!?!?
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Old 05-28-2018, 06:31 PM   #5
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Is it wired backwards? One pump running in the opposite direction isnt going to get fuel to the next pump to feed it to the rail. Just check. I've done it before. Had the same issue.
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Old 05-28-2018, 07:01 PM   #6
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I don't think the main pump is wires backwards. The main line going into the fuel rail is pushing out towards the rail, so the main in-line pump is working properly. I'm PRETTY sure the in-tank pump is wired up properly, but (as much as I don't want to) I can pull the pump out tomorrow and double check. I'll probably have to yank it out anyway just because any other issue here is related to that fuel sender unit.

I put the red wire on positive and the black on negative (pretty sure those are the colors).

Also, what can be done about this hose so I still have a fuel level reading? It seems Volvo doesn't sell it anymore, and the piece of fuel hose I installed in place of it (between the main pump and the hard line) won't allow the canister that sends the fuel level reading to move.
My gas gauge doesn't even move now... it used to show a reading. Maybe those wires (which I soldered back on) are backwards, but I don't really think it matters which terminal those wires go on. But I'm pretty sure it has to do with the "float" unable to move.

Number 7 in this diagram: http://volvopartslisle.com/assembly/473793/Tank-Sender
Picture: https://photos.app.goo.gl/J6l1Ab8Z4prf26gq1

Last edited by bmdubya1198; 05-28-2018 at 07:17 PM..
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Old 05-28-2018, 07:14 PM   #7
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Test light or DVOM the wires going to the pump to be sure they are correct. I'm going to agree, it sounds like the pump is wired backwards.

The fuel hose is available from many aftermarket manufacturers. Just google the Volvo part number.
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Old 05-28-2018, 07:18 PM   #8
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Well, the lack of that accordion part is what I'm worried about. The float isn't able to move with the standard hose because of where the pump is attached to the housing.
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Old 05-28-2018, 07:45 PM   #9
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Well, the lack of that accordion part is what I'm worried about. The float isn't able to move with the standard hose because of where the pump is attached to the housing.
I understand that. The "bellowed" hose is still available from aftermarket suppliers.

http://bfy.tw/ILUr
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Old 05-28-2018, 07:58 PM   #10
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Volvo updated the accordion hose to straight hose but you have to buy a piece that's longer than you need. If you have to have the accordion hose, I have this one made by MTC for a 740 part #3514360.

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Old 05-28-2018, 08:15 PM   #11
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Good to know. I couldn’t find it before.

I pulled fuse 11 to see if the main pump could pull in some fuel (in case the tank pump is wired wrong), and I still got nothing. I just pinched the relay and ran it a couple times for about 4-5 seconds each. I’m assuming the wiring is fine, because the main pump should have enough power to get fuel to the rail without assistance from the tank pump.
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Old 05-29-2018, 05:36 AM   #12
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Pulled the line off the tank pump and there is no pressure at all, and it's bone dry. There is no gas coming out of the pump/sending unit. How is this even possible!?!?
if there is a leak in the hose between the intank pump and the outlet connection that leak will act as a short circuit. The pump will run but fuel will not be pushed into the fuel line but it will just be dumped back into the tank. There will be no pressure on the fuel line between tank and filter/pressurepump.
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Old 05-29-2018, 07:27 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Janspeed View Post
if there is a leak in the hose between the intank pump and the outlet connection that leak will act as a short circuit. The pump will run but fuel will not be pushed into the fuel line but it will just be dumped back into the tank. There will be no pressure on the fuel line between tank and filter/pressurepump.
Yep. Needs to pull the pump to check the wiring just in case. I replaced that hose while I was in there. Had to take it back out because I was noob and wired it backwards.
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Old 05-29-2018, 09:30 AM   #14
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If you remove the line between the main pump and the tank pump and test, and no fuel comes out of the line when the tank pump runs.

The tank pump is running backwards, or the fuel line is not connected to the pump, or there is no fuel getting to the tank pump.
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Old 05-29-2018, 09:49 AM   #15
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I'm ready to burn this piece of crap to the ground, a car has never driven me so insane. It's possessed.
Everyone who has ever owned or worked on a 7 series has said this before.
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If you remove the line between the main pump and the tank pump and test, and no fuel comes out of the line when the tank pump runs.

The tank pump is running backwards, or the fuel line is not connected to the pump, or there is no fuel getting to the tank pump.
This sounds like the easiest test to do. Disconnect the line underneath the car, then jump 12v to the tank pump and see what happens.
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Old 05-29-2018, 10:02 AM   #16
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Everyone who has ever owned or worked on a 7 series has said this before.
I'm not surprised!

I pulled the hose from the pump itself and ran it, nothing came out. I was pretty sure that would be the case anyway, otherwise I probably wouldn't have done it that way to avoid the potential mess.
I'll be pulling the pump today and inspecting. Updates to come...
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Old 05-29-2018, 10:09 AM   #17
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Wait a second, reverse polarity and try again. That works how i think it does, correct? Reversing polarity will spin the pump opposite direction?
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Old 05-29-2018, 10:39 AM   #18
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Apparently that's how it works, never really thought about it until this thread. Apparently it's pretty common for cars to have a black positive and red negative... freaking Volvo...
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Old 05-29-2018, 10:46 AM   #19
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Wait a second, reverse polarity and try again. That works how i think it does, correct? Reversing polarity will spin the pump opposite direction?
with DC on a DC pump, yes.
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Old 05-29-2018, 11:34 AM   #20
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Both the airtex pumps I got from the parts store ran in reverse until I reversed the leads.
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Old 05-29-2018, 11:43 AM   #21
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Apparently that's how it works, never really thought about it until this thread. Apparently it's pretty common for cars to have a black positive and red negative... freaking Volvo...
Nah that’s not normal. I’ve seen it happen to people on aftermarket sending units (on a 240 at least), but my chinabay sending unit was perfectly fine
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with DC on a DC pump, yes.
Cool thanks that’s what i thought
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Both the airtex pumps I got from the parts store ran in reverse until I reversed the leads.
There’s very very small print on the airtex pumps for + and - I had to look close to see them. I wouldn’t think your pump itself was wired wrong internally, it was probably the sending unit. Maybe not but just seems odd to me. Both of my airtex pumps work as intended when wired 12v to + and ground to -
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Old 05-29-2018, 04:24 PM   #22
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I went ahead and returned the pump, because after reversing polarity it still wouldn't pump any gas. I have no idea why.
I tested for any leaks along the pump outlet line, and it's sealed. Also, when I pulled the pump, the sock was wet, so it was submerged in fuel. No reason fuel wouldn't be getting out of the sending unit.

Apparently it's happened before where the fuel pump runs but doesn't pull any fuel.

What I ended up doing is attaching a long enough hose so it is submerged in the fuel, and hopefully the in-line main pump will be able to pull fuel up to the rail. When I ran it, I didn't get any fuel at the rail, but the tone of the pump changed, so maybe there was some fuel that made it through.
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Old 05-29-2018, 04:41 PM   #23
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How long did you try with the line submersed? You might have needed to keep it running to purge the line.

Did you bench test the pump? Would’ve been a good idea..
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Old 05-29-2018, 04:52 PM   #24
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How long did you try with the line submersed? You might have needed to keep it running to purge the line.

Did you bench test the pump? Would’ve been a good idea..
I couldn't find a way to bench test it without either starting a fire or making a huge mess. I'd rather invest in a good pump anyway, like a Walbro 255 or Bosch 044.

I had the same thought, I'll have to try it more. The lines are totally dry, so I'm sure it'll take a few seconds. I ran it for about 4-5 seconds, two or three times.
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Old 05-29-2018, 06:01 PM   #25
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I couldn't find a way to bench test it without either starting a fire or making a huge mess. I'd rather invest in a good pump anyway, like a Walbro 255 or Bosch 044.

I had the same thought, I'll have to try it more. The lines are totally dry, so I'm sure it'll take a few seconds. I ran it for about 4-5 seconds, two or three times.
Hm that should’ve been enough. You won’t cause a fire I don’t think. I mean, the pump runs constantly when in the car.
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