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Old 04-23-2018, 03:15 PM   #1
smncutler
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Default Tips for getting M46 input shaft into clutch

I did my 83 240's rear main seal and I'm having a hell of a time getting the M46 back in. At the moment it's supported by two jacks, and the back of the engine is held up with a third jack.
The end of the input shaft keeps skating around the edge of the splined metal hole in the center of the clutch disk, but won't go in. A few times it's gone too far forward and got stuck next to the splined hole. I try to pull the trans backward but the shifter ball socket thing hits the back of the trans tunnel shifter recess.
I think I need to rotate the trans so the bellhousing starter hump will clear the firewall and I can get a straight shot. However the whole thing weighs 400 pounds. I've tried all sorts of pry bar type things in various directions and it won't move.
Should I just pull the engine or what?
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Old 04-23-2018, 03:20 PM   #2
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Lower the back of the engine until the head almost hits the firewall if you have not already, the extra angle is necessary to get things realigned in my experience.

Also, if you removed the PP, or flywheel, you will need a clutch alignment tool available at most clutch shops and even some machine shops (and IPD probably), The alignment tool for my T5 was available through Oreilly's.
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Old 04-23-2018, 03:23 PM   #3
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I wasn't able to do it on my own with jacks and such. I got two of my strong friends who bench pressed it up and I shimmied it in the right direction from the engine bay. The car was on jack stands, no lift or trans jack.
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Old 04-23-2018, 03:27 PM   #4
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The car is on plastic ramps so it's pretty high up. The back of the head is about a millimeter from the firewall. I used the clutch alignment tool and tightened the pressure plate bolts slowly and evenly, the tool came back out pretty easily.
It probably doesn't help that the trans crossmember was still attached to the trans, one more thing making it hard to rotate.
I don't have any strong friends haha
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Old 04-23-2018, 03:34 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by smncutler View Post
The car is on plastic ramps so it's pretty high up. The back of the head is about a millimeter from the firewall. I used the clutch alignment tool and tightened the pressure plate bolts slowly and evenly, the tool came back out pretty easily.
It probably doesn't help that the trans crossmember was still attached to the trans, one more thing making it hard to rotate.
I don't have any strong friends haha
Meh, sounds like you're 90 percent of the way there then, Muscle up Buttercup!

Thinking back, I did this solo with an M46 as well like 15 years ago, not sure I could do it solo now LOL
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Old 04-23-2018, 03:37 PM   #6
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That's the problem, it's the damnedest thing, I've been so ****ing close for two days but I'm a 138 pound cyclist with vestigial arms
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Old 04-23-2018, 03:45 PM   #7
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Remove the cross member so you can rotate the starter hump on bell housing away from the tunnel. It's the only way to get the trans back in.
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Old 04-23-2018, 03:47 PM   #8
esmth
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Make a post on craigslist looking for a bench presser to help you . I was in the same position as you doing my swap, I'm a runner so not very strong upper body
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Old 04-23-2018, 03:52 PM   #9
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Ok, will remove crossmember and report back. Haha, I could go to a gym and ask a guy if he wants to make a buck
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Old 04-23-2018, 04:23 PM   #10
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When I changed clutch for my m47 I used an office chair with seat removed. Then I got the gas spring to hold the weight of the gearbox. You have to wiggle the box a little and turn the output flange so you come right into the spline openings in the clutch disc.
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Old 04-23-2018, 04:31 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hiperfauto View Post
Remove the cross member so you can rotate the starter hump on bell housing away from the tunnel. It's the only way to get the trans back in.
/\ /\ /\ It's one of those cases where even a 'real' transmission jack isn't all that incredibly useful because the trans needs to rotate quite a bit to clear that damn starter bump.

Two more little tips:
1) One thing I've done a bunch in the past is to drop a loop of rope down through the shifter hole, and around the back end of the trans. And then use that to suspend some portion of the weight. It will hold up more weight with an OD equipped trans with the OD counterbalancing the front half. The rope then lets you lift a lot less weight, twist the trans, swing it back and forth, takes a lot of the effort out of it.

2) Put the trans in gear - preferably 4th, so you can twist the output flange back and forth as the input shaft starts to go into the clutch splines. They don't always line up perfectly, and there are no 'guides' or 'ramps' or rounded ends of splines to line things up. You need to wiggle it until they align.
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Old 04-23-2018, 10:35 PM   #12
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I'll try the rope trick! As well as removing the trans crossmember. Thanks everyone, will report back tomorrow.
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Old 04-23-2018, 11:52 PM   #13
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I always make sure the clutch disc slides on and off the transmission input shaft before I even try to install it.
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Old 04-24-2018, 12:19 AM   #14
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I always make sure the clutch disc slides on and off the transmission input shaft before I even try to install it.
Dab of lube on the splines. She no likey the dry sex! This will keep the clutch disc from sticking on the splines for grinding into first and reverse.

Clutch alignment tool is a must too.
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Old 04-24-2018, 09:40 AM   #15
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When I did it the last couple times, I used my cherry picker on the front of the engine to change the angle. I also had to rotated the tranny about 30 degrees to get it to fit in and then twist it at the last second

A remedy for those with weak arms
Get a piece of wood and put it over the shifter hole inside the car, then wrap bungee cords around that wood and then around the tranny below, add or remove cords for desired height. Works wonders. I see someone said something similar but the elastic makes it nice to get the right angle
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Old 04-29-2018, 11:54 PM   #16
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Removed the crossmember, twisted it in, all is fine and dandy but it still pukes oil. I was a little baked when I pressed in seal #2 (notice a theme here?) and decided to use a little superglue. Ended up with 2-3 mm of the seal sticking out of the carrier, nearly touching the back of the flywheel (oh gawd). Who knows what the temperature resistance of ethyl cyanoacrylate is.
The first seal was Elring I think, brown, and when I pulled it out there was a damn gap where oil was pouring straight out. Fail!
Seal #2 is orange, bigger lip, tighter fit.
Will pull the engine next week so I can figure out what in the **** is going on. It runs like a hot damn but the oil hemorrhaging continues.

I did overfill the oil a bit this time, by close to a quart. Could that be an issue? I mean besides the obvious leaks and sloshing and such

This has become a saga

Last edited by smncutler; 04-30-2018 at 12:01 AM..
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Old 04-30-2018, 01:33 PM   #17
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Don't use superglue with seals. Use something better suited like... gasket maker? Superglue loses some of it's properties when its 250 degrees.

If you're going back in again, take the seal carrier off and use a plane and some sandpaper to get a real flat surface. Put gasket maker on the corners that it makes when it reaches the oil pan. I've started using The Right Stuff for important things because it works better than sili con carne. I used silicone for my last main seal and it doesn't leak.

Usually putting in too much oil can cause premature oil leaks... which you already have... so I think you're good.
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Old 04-30-2018, 01:44 PM   #18
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For the seal, you shouldn't really need any sealer around the outside of it either. Although I have been known to put a little RV on the cam seals up front - because they seal across a seam. But on the RMS, get the housing clean and clear, lightly oil theRMS on outer and inner surfaces, and then CAREFULLY and GENTLY tap it into the housing until it's pretty much flush with the outside edge.

I have found that a cam gear is a perfect size to drive an RMS in. Hold everything straight, then use the cam gear and tap on the center of that with a rubber mallet or a dead blow hammer. If any part of it gets ahead of the rest, use the hammer gently and carefully on the seal. Keep it straight, keep driving it into the housing.

Also, before pulling it apart again, make sure you don't have a crankcase pressure issue (i.e. clogged flame trap). If it's building up pressure, oil is going to leak from somewhere. The blow-by has to get out somewhere, and it's not shy about taking oil with it.
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Old 04-30-2018, 03:33 PM   #19
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I found that installing the RMS is worlds easier with the seal carrier OUT of the engine. Then you can make sure it's all flush and ready without being crammed under the car.

I once got my car so high up on jacks that I could just about sit crisscross with the tranny out.
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Old 04-30-2018, 03:36 PM   #20
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Yeah, but taking that out and resealing it is just an unnecessary step. Much larger chance of introducing new leaks around it. And the oil pan gasket.
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Old 05-05-2018, 10:52 PM   #21
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Would there be any disadvantage to pressing two seals in the carrier? Assuming they both fit, of course
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Old 05-06-2018, 05:47 PM   #22
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Quote:
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Would there be any disadvantage to pressing two seals in the carrier? Assuming they both fit, of course
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Old 05-07-2018, 10:48 PM   #23
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Hey c'mon it's an honest question
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Old 05-07-2018, 11:03 PM   #24
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Just... no.

If there was an advantage, would the manufacturer have done it? Or would they rather leave oil drops than to put two seals in?

Think about it another way - if oil makes it past the first seal, where does it go from there?
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Old 05-08-2018, 02:22 AM   #25
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Volvo had specialized tools being used in clean rooms. I have a driveway.
One seal properly installed is more than enough to keep oil in the crankcase where it belongs. If it makes it past one it will make it past the other because duh.
Maybe I could use the ****ty brownish Elring seal with a smaller lip to help drive in the wider orange seal? The first orange one didn't want to seat no matter what I did, and a little bit of rtv type stuff just made it slide around in the carrier and hook itself around the far edge of the crankshaft flange. That sucked. The Elring one was worse since the outside edge of it was narrower, even less grip on the aluminum.
This time around I'll remove the carrier so I can get the seal 100%

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