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Old 03-22-2018, 10:04 AM   #51
PromiseRing
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I marked the pinion flange and the piece of the driveshaft the bolts to it: both with a white paint marker and facing downward. Then I also marked the triangle part up front. Both facing downward. Looks close to me but I’m wondering if being a spline or 2 off is enough to cause vibrations.
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can't replace u joints
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Old 03-22-2018, 10:15 AM   #52
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Maybe I can reference my other 240s driveshaft orientation and try to match it to my wagons.
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Old 03-22-2018, 12:20 PM   #53
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Alright just jacked up the sedan, not the (vibrating) wagon. This is the driveshaft of a car that does not vibrate. Then i had a look. First off, I can watch the Rear DS in this car shimmy side to side when it’s spinning, yet it does not vibrate?? Oh well.

Only the front section of this DS is marked with yellow paint, there’s even a yellow line drawn as pictured below. Seems to have no relation to the front tri flange.

When I put this yellow line facing directly DOWN, the pinion flange seems to be side to side. This is hard to word, but hopefully pictures help. And I don’t wanna hear **** about my booger welded pie cut exhaust. It was dirt cheap like 2 years ago.

Here’s that tri flange. It has no obvious specific orientation in relation to the yellow markings.


First yellow markings on front section of DS


Here’s a yellow line that the wagon does NOT have. When this is pointing straight down, the pinion flange seems to be ‘squared’.


Note the pinion flange/u joint orientation when that yellow mark is straight down.


Do you folks think this means anything?
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Old 03-22-2018, 02:30 PM   #54
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...Iím wondering if being a spline or 2 off is enough to cause vibrations.
I'm gonna say yes. One of mine had an obstinate driveshaft vibration that persisted even after renewing the u-joints and verifying all the matchmarks lined up. SOLVED by tightening a radiator hose clamp around the driveshaft where I saw the most vibration. Using a whiteout marker I index numbered all around the circumference of the driveshaft there by the hose clamp (think I got 12 numbers, like a clock) and experimented with placing the sticking out part of the hose clamp (where the screw is) at each number in turn, and watching for the vibration.

Left the hose clamp in the position where the vibration was the least, it worked great forever after!

Moral of the story: small changes in the weighting and position have big effects on a rotating driveshaft.

LATER: talking to a marine propshaft technician, he told me they sometimes use a similar method to figure out where to attach the permanent balancing weights on oceangoing vessels.
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Old 03-22-2018, 03:28 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by tintintin View Post
I'm gonna say yes. One of mine had an obstinate driveshaft vibration that persisted even after renewing the u-joints and verifying all the matchmarks lined up. SOLVED by tightening a radiator hose clamp around the driveshaft where I saw the most vibration. Using a whiteout marker I index numbered all around the circumference of the driveshaft there by the hose clamp (think I got 12 numbers, like a clock) and experimented with placing the sticking out part of the hose clamp (where the screw is) at each number in turn, and watching for the vibration.

Left the hose clamp in the position where the vibration was the least, it worked great forever after!

Moral of the story: small changes in the weighting and position have big effects on a rotating driveshaft.

LATER: talking to a marine propshaft technician, he told me they sometimes use a similar method to figure out where to attach the permanent balancing weights on oceangoing vessels.

So itís essentially like a trial and error type of thing. Do you put the clamp on the front or rear shaft, and do you put it in the front, middle, or back of the shaft? Iíll try this today.
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Old 03-22-2018, 05:37 PM   #56
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I tried a hose clamp on the rear shaft in the middle, in 4 different positions (every 90 degrees). No change in vibration at all. Moved it to the front of the rear shaft and repeated test, same results.
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Old 03-22-2018, 07:29 PM   #57
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Alright. Now I used a paint marker connected to a scissor jack and slowly jacked it up while the vibration was happening. I got a white line on 1 side of the shaft (I did rear shaft, front and back), so I added hose clamps to the opposite site of the white marks. White marks would be the heavy side so I thought I balanced it. Literally nothing has helped. What a pile of **** these cars are.
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Old 03-22-2018, 11:03 PM   #58
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I feel your nightmare, sorta. I have a car that runs badly for no apparent reason.

Anyway, I have thought about this more. Regarding the spline alignment and balance, I am a skeptic. While many driveshafts are no doubt balanced with splines engaged, as a unit, and with good results, I just don't see that making a large difference unless something was flaky about the spline. If it mattered much, the shafts would have non-removable marks on them, or would be made to assemble only one way.

I do believe that each piece should be balanced well. Is this the shaft that you put u-joints in recently? Any chance something is still off, or even bent? How about swapping in the smooth-running shaft from the other car? That would help isolate the problem. Mark it well before removing it, if it makes you feel good

I am impressed with the story tintintin tells of balancing with a hose clamp. The weight of the screw part of a clamp is quite small, though. I have seen large chunks of metal welded to driveshafts for balance. It is quite possible that a clamp is not enough to make a difference. Maybe use the clamp to hold a larger weight in place.
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Old 03-23-2018, 12:50 AM   #59
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I feel your nightmare, sorta. I have a car that runs badly for no apparent reason.

Anyway, I have thought about this more. Regarding the spline alignment and balance, I am a skeptic. While many driveshafts are no doubt balanced with splines engaged, as a unit, and with good results, I just don't see that making a large difference unless something was flaky about the spline. If it mattered much, the shafts would have non-removable marks on them, or would be made to assemble only one way.

I do believe that each piece should be balanced well. Is this the shaft that you put u-joints in recently? Any chance something is still off, or even bent? How about swapping in the smooth-running shaft from the other car? That would help isolate the problem. Mark it well before removing it, if it makes you feel good

I am impressed with the story tintintin tells of balancing with a hose clamp. The weight of the screw part of a clamp is quite small, though. I have seen large chunks of metal welded to driveshafts for balance. It is quite possible that a clamp is not enough to make a difference. Maybe use the clamp to hold a larger weight in place.
Everything in the ujoint looks and feels perfect. It moves freely and makes no noise. Also, when I put in the *first* ujoint that I cracked, the vibrations were identical to how they are now i believe. So it seems like the ujoint itself isnít really the problem to me.
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Old 03-23-2018, 09:37 AM   #60
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Everything in the ujoint looks and feels perfect. It moves freely and makes no noise. Also, when I put in the *first* ujoint that I cracked, the vibrations were identical to how they are now i believe. So it seems like the ujoint itself isn’t really the problem to me.
Maybe the u-joint or flange is only noticeably bad when it is under load? A human can't really load it by hand
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Old 03-23-2018, 10:39 AM   #61
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Maybe the u-joint or flange is only noticeably bad when it is under load? A human can't really load it by hand
I doubt it. It was just a normal ujoint replacement. All went as planned the second time around.
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Old 03-23-2018, 01:00 PM   #62
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If you look on diagram from hiperfauto your orientation looks close or same. In the diagram the arrow is in alignment w/ the rear bearing cup holder.

Were you ever able to find any stamping under the yellow paint ?
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Old 03-23-2018, 02:46 PM   #63
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What a pile of **** these cars are.
Step away for a minute and call around to some driveline repair shops. Looks like it is time for some seasoned experts to get their hands on it.

First, try another "run" with the wheels/tires off, just to remove that variable.
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Old 03-23-2018, 04:28 PM   #64
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Did you knock the cups back against the circlips?
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Folks on here don't know a good deal when they see it.
how psi stock cna support?

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Old 03-23-2018, 04:51 PM   #65
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If you look on diagram from hiperfauto your orientation looks close or same. In the diagram the arrow is in alignment w/ the rear bearing cup holder.

Were you ever able to find any stamping under the yellow paint ?
Neither of my 240s have arrows. That mustíve been an m46 thing??
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Step away for a minute and call around to some driveline repair shops. Looks like it is time for some seasoned experts to get their hands on it.

First, try another "run" with the wheels/tires off, just to remove that variable.
Already did all testing yesterday without wheels/tires so I was able to remove that as a variable.
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Did you knock the cups back against the circlips?
We went over this lol. I rested the c clips against the buckets, then slowly tapped each side of the ujoint down that way the clips would pop into place. So yes, all buckets are up against the clips.
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Old 03-23-2018, 04:52 PM   #66
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For what it’s worth, the vibrations aren’t unbearable on the highway. Drove it 2 hours home today.
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Old 03-23-2018, 08:45 PM   #67
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So itís essentially like a trial and error type of thing. Do you put the clamp on the front or rear shaft, and do you put it in the front, middle, or back of the shaft? Iíll try this today.
No, you are supposed to mark both halves BEFORE disassembly.

This has been mentioned here before.

Search, noob.
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Old 03-23-2018, 08:47 PM   #68
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Neither of my 240s have arrows. That must’ve been an m46 thing??
No, it was a mechanic disassembling the shaft that knew what he was doing and used a punch or paint marker to mark the halves.
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Old 03-23-2018, 08:49 PM   #69
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No, you are supposed to mark both halves BEFORE disassembly.

This has been mentioned here before.

Search, noob.
I did mark both, noob. And a lot of 240s have the arrows, but neither of my 93s do.


Noob.
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Old 03-23-2018, 08:52 PM   #70
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I've never, in 25 yrs of working on Volvos, seen anyone go two weeks without resolving this problem.

For what it's worth, I would have fired you last week.

Glad you got it fixed though.
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Old 03-23-2018, 09:03 PM   #71
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We went over this lol. I rested the c clips against the buckets, then slowly tapped each side of the ujoint down that way the clips would pop into place. So yes, all buckets are up against the clips.
The method Redwood Chair mentioned is a little different lol. Let's see if I can explain it sufficiently:

Set one of the ears on a block of wood. Then whack the next section to it, near the u-joint, with a hefty rubber mallet. Hit straight downward. Do this for all 4 cups of each joint. Subtle difference to what you did, but this drives each cup slightly outward, contrary to what you did (knocked each cup inward.)

Just trying to share some of the trade secrets picked up over the years from the driveline guys.
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Old 03-23-2018, 09:40 PM   #72
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^^ Good advice. Though I wouldn't bet on it to make a difference here.
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Old 03-23-2018, 09:47 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by Darkness View Post
I've never, in 25 yrs of working on Volvos, seen anyone go two weeks without resolving this problem.

For what it's worth, I would have fired you last week.

Glad you got it fixed though.
I didnít fix anything except a bad u joint. Thanks for all of your helpful advice though.
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Originally Posted by tintintin View Post
The method Redwood Chair mentioned is a little different lol. Let's see if I can explain it sufficiently:

Set one of the ears on a block of wood. Then whack the next section to it, near the u-joint, with a hefty rubber mallet. Hit straight downward. Do this for all 4 cups of each joint. Subtle difference to what you did, but this drives each cup slightly outward, contrary to what you did (knocked each cup inward.)

Just trying to share some of the trade secrets picked up over the years from the driveline guys.
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^^ Good advice. Though I wouldn't bet on it to make a difference here.
So are the buckets supposed to outwards towards the c clips? Because all 4 caps are touching the c clips.
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Old 03-23-2018, 09:49 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkness View Post
No, you are supposed to mark both halves BEFORE disassembly.

This has been mentioned here before.

Search, noob.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkness View Post
No, it was a mechanic disassembling the shaft that knew what he was doing and used a punch or paint marker to mark the halves.
By the way neither of your posts make any sense and are irrelevant lol. People who work on an assembly line aren’t mechanics, for the record.
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Old 03-23-2018, 11:58 PM   #75
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So are the buckets supposed to outwards towards the c clips? Because all 4 caps are touching the c clips.
That's not how Volvogeorge Swift taught me to do it, but carry on since you know it all...

Oh and he is a mechanic, in fact he's an engine builder for Jay Leno now just FYI.
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