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Old 04-11-2018, 02:54 PM   #1
Crushercurtis
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Default 940 swap into 240 (formally: Seized Intermediate shaft 93 240)

So I bought a 93 240 for $200 after the owner broke the timing belt. Here's where things get sketchy. She said the car sat all winter and (just 1 winter) and when she tried to start it and the belt snapped. I didn't really ask the details and in hindsight I should have. I don't know if it started and drove before it snapped, or just snapped immediately upon cranking. So she had it towed to a shop, the shop supposedly put and timing belt on it for $280 and it snapped again. They told her she had a seized cam. That's where I come in. I bought it with everything disassembled . No serpentine belt, No timing cover, no crank pulley, no tensioner and spring. Knowing that these are safe motors I cranked it and the bottom seamed to turn freely and I turned the cam and it seemed to turn okay. I removed the valve cover expecting to see the cam snapped in half and the back end not turning I find that it too looks okay (video below). I'm thinking the shop tried to rip her off for an engine or cylinder had job. They had to know the cam wasn't seized because they supposedly put a replacement belt on it and they would have had to turn the cam to complete the job. Or, as my father thinks, they put the belt on wrong and snapped it again (is that possible)? To me that sounds unlikely, because it you can't by a tbelt on a sohc 4 cylinder with a belt you probably shouldn't be in business. Or maybe they tried to put a square belt on it (car has circular pulleys)???

Anyway, what should I do? I'm thinking of just putting it back together and trying to start it. Any ideas, tips, pointers, something I missed or something to check, before I reassemble?


Last edited by Crushercurtis; 05-13-2018 at 03:11 PM..
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Old 04-11-2018, 02:58 PM   #2
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If the cam turns and nothing looks weird under the valve cover I'd go ahead and slap a new belt/tensioner on it.


Err... I meant to say it's all worthless ruined junk, I'll take it from you for $200 so you don't take a loss on it!
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Old 04-11-2018, 03:03 PM   #3
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lololol, I jumped at it because its from Alabama with no rust and supposedly has 110k miles on it. Seems like it had a decent owner with new shocks, brakes and tires, service records etc.
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Old 04-11-2018, 03:43 PM   #4
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Throw a belt on it, throw it back together, sell for $2k. Profit.
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Old 04-11-2018, 04:08 PM   #5
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Make sure the aux shaft turns. You know, the other thing the belt is supposed to turn...

People have run square belts on round gears in these cars just fine.

The other thing that stops the cam and breaks the belt is if oil isn't getting up to the cam after a while it will sieze and break the belt, then later after it cools down the cam will then turn again. Could be just out of oil when it happend, you know not enough oil in the oil pan to be sucked up by oil pump and pumped all the way to the top of the motor where the cam is.
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Old 04-11-2018, 04:58 PM   #6
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Oh, by aux shaft do you mean Intermediate shaft? If so, how easily should it turn. I just tried with a small ratchet and its not turning at all. I feel like an idiot for not checking previously.

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Old 04-11-2018, 05:20 PM   #7
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Take out the distributor and look down that hole at aux shaft. Take off the manual fuel pump block off plate look at aux shaft. Take off PCV box and pull up oil pump gear and see if it then turns. Maybe your oil pump is siezed. Oil pump runs off oil pump drive shaft that runs off aux shaft at end of shaft under PCV black plastic box under intake manifold.

Let us know what it is. Something is broke or seized. Could be your distributor. At least you've narrowed it down more then before when you where gonna waste another belt...
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Old 04-11-2018, 05:44 PM   #8
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^THIS! Maybe dig the access points and bits driven off the aux shaft off until the aux shaft turns. Determine if cause is one of the things it drives (carb fuel pump (if equipped), dist, oil pump or if it is the thrust face or just seized in the and bearings. I didn’t do that since the aux shaft turned in most cases of this happening for me with resistance like it chewed the bearings up a little likely from oil starvation...

Check the back of the cylinder head and make sure the rear cam plug is present and that there’s oil in the sump. You’d think a shop would notice this but I’ve gotten 3 cars with this issue now...flame trap clogs or someone didn’t get the plug in straight/plug shrunk/some combo of that and car lost most oil, aux shaft bound first (thankfully) and tbelt snapped before anything worse happened

Auc shaft can become difficult to turn very rapidly when oil starved!

I’ve had a few like that now that ran low on oil. I examined the crank and found it not scored or any connecting egg-shaped and replaced some slightly pounded rod bearings,, oil pump transfer tube seals and spun the aux shaft slowly until it became easier to turn (didn’t feel like the oil pump or anything Jammed it, just turned with some resistance). There isn’t much load on the aux shaft bearings so I didn’t replace them, engine oil pressure is now fine with new rod bearings and oil pump transfer tube seals and s good used late model oil pump (my cars are early b230 cars.) . You’d think they’d check the oil level but never know.

I’ve gotten very very ‘lucky’ that way 3x now where the aux shaft seized fistt and snapped the tbelt with about 1.5quarts of oil remaining when the rear cam plug blew out before it could egg out any connecting rods, score the crank, or mess up the head much. Still not good but “salvageable. “. Still a J.O.B. To dig the sunp off it snd inspect/freshen things up or just add oil and pull stuff off the aux shaft and inspect depending where or how you dig first. In my case I added oil and spun the aux shaft until it smoothed out the chrewed bits of aux shaft bearings and started the car to find no horrific rod knock and proceeded to dig the sump off it and do rod bearings/oil pump transfer tube seals from there before investing much time into it at initial inspection/diagnosis and startup. Just a long glowing oil light to build pressure and oil light on at warm idle typical of the transfer tube seal
Issue.


The oil pump transfer tube seal failure isn’t all that uncommon in hot weather cars either. Not much fun but hanging the motor and doing that and rod bearings is still much less time then whole motor swap...

Oil pump failure/wear is rarer on the later 1990+ cars with the better tall gear pump. Just the seals. Oil pressure relief spring in pump doesn’t seem to have problems often on the 1979+ SOHC cars but not impossible. Sheared oil pump gear drive shaft also fairly rare.

Another thing:
If the shop or someone had the bright idea to remove the front seal housing to replace the seals and didn’t use an oe gasket or used rtv and no gasket (common enough if Jim-bob-Elroy master oil change mechanic at the corner gas station gets his hands on it), that will cause the aux shaft to bind. The thrust surface for the aux shaft is on the front seal housing and the Oe gasket sets the thrust clearance. I don’t think this scenario is nearly as likely as oil starvation given the belt snapped twice, but not impossible if they made that mistake the first time.


The cam might be pretty terribly rattly if oil starved for very long though if the crank isn’t scored you can probably save it if it has compression left, maybe swap a head and check how loose the oil pump is though...
Do what you can quickly to narrow down what’s causing the aux shaft binding and if the motor was oil starved how noisy it is on initial startup once the aux shaft turns well enough to maybe throw a belt on it and start it before investing too much into a motor that might not be viable?
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Old 04-12-2018, 09:58 PM   #9
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Is there a trick to getting the distributor out? Removed the bolt, but its not coming.
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Old 04-12-2018, 10:30 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crushercurtis View Post
Is there a trick to getting the distributor out? Removed the bolt, but its not coming.


Spray it liberally with WD-40 or similar. Work it back and forth while continuing to spray occasionally. Once it moves back and forth, you can usually (very gently) pry it up and out.


They are usually very difficult to remove if they have never been removed. Be sure to put a good coating of syl-glide on the oring etc. when you reassemble it.
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Old 04-14-2018, 03:58 PM   #11
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Your timing belt has no money?
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Old 04-19-2018, 12:00 PM   #12
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Ditto what’s been said. Also you can put an impact gun or drill on and shaft nut and spin it fast to see if it builds oil pressure.
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Old 04-20-2018, 04:25 PM   #13
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So I got distributor out, it actually came out super easy. Unfortunately its still seized. Whats the next step? Is it dropping the oil pan and inspecting he oil pump? I hear its a real pain.

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Ditto what’s been said. Also you can put an impact gun or drill on and shaft nut and spin it fast to see if it builds oil pressure.
Oh so its okay to force the intermediate shaft to turn? I was thinking of putting a breaker bar on it.
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Old 04-20-2018, 04:36 PM   #14
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Does it wiggle back and forth a tiny bit?

The oil pump drive gear is underneath the crankcase breather box. You should probably pull that next and see if that gear will come out (it will spin as it comes out due to the angle of the teeth - it should lift up and out but sometimes there is oil sludge/gunk built up on the bottom side.

That would at least point you in the direction of the oil pump or the int shaft bearings being seized. If it's the oil pump, might be worth pulling the pan to see what happened (foreign object lodged in the gear teeth?).

If it's the int shaft bearings, that pretty much means the engine has to come out and apart, and you might as well just start looking for a nice junkyard replacement engine.
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Old 04-20-2018, 04:46 PM   #15
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Does it wiggle back and forth a tiny bit?
That would at least point you in the direction of the oil pump or the int shaft bearings being seized. If it's the oil pump, might be worth pulling the pan to see what happened (foreign object lodged in the gear teeth?).

If it's the int shaft bearings, that pretty much means the engine has to come out and apart, and you might as well just start looking for a nice junkyard replacement engine.
It won't budge at all. Is that more indicative of bearings?
The bearings can't be replaced with the engine in the car?
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Old 04-20-2018, 09:43 PM   #16
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Quote:
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Oh so its okay to force the intermediate shaft to turn? I was thinking of putting a breaker bar on it.
That’s assuming it breaks free and turns easily at some point, which it doesn’t seem like it is.

Like they said, pull the oil pump drive gear out and see if it frees up. If not your intermediate shaft bearings are seized up and your rod and main bearings likely have major damage too and the engine comes out.

I guess if all else fails you could throw a breaker bar on it, but it’s a moot point. Still damaged.
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Old 04-23-2018, 09:42 AM   #17
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It won't budge at all. Is that more indicative of bearings?
The bearings can't be replaced with the engine in the car?
I was thinking that if it was the oil pump that had seized or lodged on a piece of something, that between the slotted drive from the oil pump gear, and a tiny bit of lash on the gear teeth themselves, it might be able to turn some tiny amount.

If it doesn't budge even the tiniest bit, it would seem to indicate the bearings are seized.

I'm really not sure about replacing those with the engine in the car, the only time I've ever had them replaced was with the bare block at the machine shop. I know they have to be pressed in from the front, and sometimes reamed for proper fit after installation.

And as already mentioned, if they're bad, serious damage has also probably been done to the bottom end bearings - the rod bearings seem to be the first to suffer since they've got centrifugal forces flinging out the last remnants of their oil.

And unless you're doing something unusual (like trying to force triple the HP out of the thing) then you're probably better off finding a nice junkyard motor at this point.

Still worth the effort of trying to get that oil pump drive gear out, just to make sure that it's not the oil pump that is causing the issues. And once that's out, might as well try to budge that int shaft, just out of curiosity more than anything?

Prices on junkyard motors vary, from a few hundred to 7 - 800? If possible, consider taking a battery and a compression tester with you if it's a PnP style yard, do a quick compression check.
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Old 05-13-2018, 03:10 PM   #18
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So I took all of your advice and bought another engine, but its a out of a 93 940. It has the head mounted distributor, looks to have some sort of air exhaust emissions set up and the accessories aren't mounted in the same place as the 240. Whats needed to get this to work in my 240? Couldn't find a swap thread on this.

If it can't swapped its not the end of the world. The 940 a bought isn't pretty, but runs excellent and was only $400 with the title.

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Old 05-13-2018, 03:24 PM   #19
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You'll probably want to get an intermediate shaft (with the distributor gear and distributor) out of a block used in a 240 and change it over.
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Old 05-13-2018, 03:51 PM   #20
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Yeah I've seen that done, but is it necessary?
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Old 05-13-2018, 03:54 PM   #21
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Yeah I've seen that done, but is it necessary?
Absolutely. You won't be able to fit the engine in the 240 bay. Well, unless you cut a large hole in the firewall. Yes, its been done before... I have the correct LH 2.4 distributor & auxiliary shaft if you need it.
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Old 05-13-2018, 04:38 PM   #22
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PM me I'll need just the shaft. Do I have to block off the distributor in the rear of the head? Anything else needed for the swap? Is getting rid of the exhaust emission as easy as swapping over exhaust manifolds? I can't seem to find a definitive swap thread, if you guys have a link to one that'd be great.
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Old 05-13-2018, 05:55 PM   #23
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I think you’ll need a rear cam seal for a 240 to block the back. Or maybe something different? You’ll be able to tell once you remove the distributor.
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Old 05-13-2018, 06:26 PM   #24
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It's a solid metal plug that fits in where the seal would normally fit: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Volvo-240-2...-/350797141996
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Old 05-13-2018, 11:50 PM   #25
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It's a solid metal plug that fits in where the seal would normally fit: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Volvo-240-2...-/350797141996
Is this the same as just a traditional rear cam seal on a 240?
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