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Old 07-13-2019, 11:52 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by gsellstr View Post
Gotcha. My Mechman is just the normal cast case.
Probably like this one? My old Mechman 170 I bought back in 2010. Worked better than any other alternator up to that point, but not as good as the new one. I know hairpin style stators existed then, but I had no clue about them or if Mechman offered it. This old one has the normal stator.
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Old 07-13-2019, 03:41 PM   #52
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Did some driving today. One of the "concerns" I came across with a back-side idler was possible elevated temperatures of the belt being flexed backwards. So I drove it for a decent long test drive and got things good and hot. Lots of high rpm driving too.

Then I checked IR temperature readings of all the belts. The belts on this idler had no unusual temperatures. All belts were within a degree or two with a max reading so far of 175 deg F.
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Old 07-14-2019, 12:18 PM   #53
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Yup, thats what mine looks like but it is the 170A unit. I was fighting some issues, unrelated, but I did a load test on it, found it would drop .2v at idle, with 125A load, with an underdrive pulley. Pretty damned impressive.
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Old 07-14-2019, 01:02 PM   #54
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Yup, thats what mine looks like but it is the 170A unit. I was fighting some issues, unrelated, but I did a load test on it, found it would drop .2v at idle, with 125A load, with an underdrive pulley. Pretty damned impressive.
Yes, that is impressive. When did you buy yours? Was it around 2010 when I bought mine or later?
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Old 07-14-2019, 03:03 PM   #55
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I have 250 amp ford power stroke alternator in my 240 volvo, at first I only put one v belt on , anyways I made an aluminum pulley for 2 belts and have been runing that for years.
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Old 07-14-2019, 05:30 PM   #56
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Mine was actually gifted, but it was purchased around 2012-2013 I think.
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Old 07-15-2019, 07:03 AM   #57
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I have 250 amp ford power stroke alternator in my 240 volvo, at first I only put one v belt on , anyways I made an aluminum pulley for 2 belts and have been runing that for years.
If you have any photos, that would be something I'd like to see.
Thanks, Dave
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Old 07-15-2019, 10:06 AM   #58
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Same here! I'm dealing with charging system issues on the Dodge right now, might be interested in an upgrade if it'll fit.
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Old 07-15-2019, 12:07 PM   #59
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Mine was actually gifted, but it was purchased around 2012-2013 I think.
So yours may be a mystery alternator too.

I think there was a serious lack of solid info when these Mechman were offered. I was originally told the one I bought was a 140a unit (although I never got any documentation or a part number). It was $300. You were told you have a 170a unit?

I found the below info in a Mechman catalog online. That's my exact alternator (as far as the case anyway). G series 3-phase unit available later in 240 or 270 amp.

I asked Mechman and they don't seem to know either. No one knows squat.

I'm not obsessing over it, but just curious. Maybe I'll sell it, but who wants an alternator with so many mysteries?
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Old 07-15-2019, 12:43 PM   #60
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Eric knows the dirt on them since he helped develop them. I think there was a different in regulator plug on the back between the 140 and the 170's. Mine is also cast DR44 on the front. I believe the ones MM was selling were hopped up 140's. but honestly it's been too damned long. lol

I'd rock a 140 or a 170 on the Dodge anyway, step up from the 116 it has. lol
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Old 07-16-2019, 10:30 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbarton View Post
If you have any photos, that would be something I'd like to see.
Thanks, Dave
I can try to get you some I don't have a lift so the pics won't be amazing
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Old 07-16-2019, 10:36 PM   #62
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just a heads up if you intend on putting a 250amp alternator you are going to need a get a bigger gauge power wire and ground to your battery I learned that lesson the hard way
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Old 07-17-2019, 10:11 AM   #63
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just a heads up if you intend on putting a 250amp alternator you are going to need a get a bigger gauge power wire and ground to your battery I learned that lesson the hard way
Yes, this is important.

I use big cables directly from the alternator to the battery. Power AND ground.

Here's a cable size chart below.
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Old 07-17-2019, 11:12 AM   #64
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Yeah, that's definitely a key thing to upgrade. I've already got #4 on the 140 and wagon, #2 on the Dodge since it's around a 5' run, but there's also a winch involved so every little bit counts.

Stereo amp wiring from the yard FTMFW! $1 for 15' of #2 or #4....hell yeah.
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Old 07-17-2019, 12:45 PM   #65
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Not a lot of progress to report. Just putting on miles. So far no issues.

Here's a progression of this bracket I'll share. I began with cardboard (no pics of that) and then moved to the below plastic model to semi-fine-tune the fit.

Then there's the steel bracket I had made, which is on the car.

No solid plans for this part yet, but if I decide to go further, I was playing with this in CAD. This design adds more locations for the idler pulley and more locations for the top adjusting bracket.

Plus is you're wondering about the slotted holes, I thought that might help for my future 16V B230 motor (if I ever finish), since the fatter crank timing sprocket moves the crank pulley forward a bit. Plus maybe it helps to have adjustability if alternators are swapped around, since there are some differences between Bosch and Mechman and probably others.
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File Type: jpg altidler024lo.jpg (40.7 KB, 185 views)
File Type: jpg altidler046lo.jpg (30.5 KB, 182 views)
File Type: jpg idlerbracket03lo.jpg (30.9 KB, 182 views)

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Old 07-18-2019, 12:52 PM   #66
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None of these are "mystery alternators."

Quote:
Originally Posted by gsellstr View Post
Eric knows the dirt on them since he helped develop them. I think there was a different in regulator plug on the back between the 140 and the 170's. Mine is also cast DR44 on the front. I believe the ones MM was selling were hopped up 140's. but honestly it's been too damned long. lol

I'd rock a 140 or a 170 on the Dodge anyway, step up from the 116 it has. lol
The unit on Daves car an an AD230 (not the unit he showed in his post) based unit based on the pic and my memory of the progression of the design.

The unit on Garys car is a DR44 based unit. The AD230 is a smaller diameter stator than the DR44 and AD244 versions, but visually very similar. Garys unit is a modified DR44, with modification for internal (as opposed to PCM) voltage regulation, low drag bearings, a little machine work, and a couple other tweaks.

As for the hairpin units, they did exist when these were built, but we were still developing the models at that point in time, and finding a suitable case to fit the Volvo builds wasn't cost effective. Also was not going to be much of an improvement as the real limit is the belt, not the ability to produce power in the package size.

Gary- For your Dodge, talk to me about this aside from this thread. I may have a very cost-effective solution for you to get the power you want for a very reasonable price IF you need the unit I think you do.
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Old 07-18-2019, 01:11 PM   #67
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So yours may be a mystery alternator too.

I think there was a serious lack of solid info when these Mechman were offered. I was told the one I bought was a 140a unit (although I never got any documentation or a part number). It was $300. You were told you have a 170a unit.

I found the below info in a Mechman catalog online. That's my exact alternator (as far as the case anyway). G series 3-phase unit available in 240 or 270 amp.

I asked Mechman and they don't seem to know either. No one knows squat.

I'm not obsessing over it, but just curious. Maybe I'll sell it, but who wants an alternator with so many mysteries.
Dave
Too? There's no mystery, your unit is an AD230. Your unit was custom built for your application, that's why there isn't a lot of information. There was no part number, again, custom built for your application. You got a 170a unit, as tested before shipping.

Garys unit is a DR44, modified for his application.

Mechman does a lot of one-off builds, depending on what the customer wants and what will fit their application. I wasn't in the habit of assigning part numbers to each unit. You can't expect someone to remember a one-off built 9 years ago, and even if they did, after the way you treated everyone involved in the original purchase and subsequent **** show of you blaming myself and Mechman for your failure to follow installation instructions and your defective fan controller, I doubt anyone is going to bend over backwards to help you.

SO what do you want to know about your alternator Dave?
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Old 07-18-2019, 06:06 PM   #68
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Too? There's no mystery, your unit is an AD230. Your unit was custom built for your application, that's why there isn't a lot of information. There was no part number, again, custom built for your application. You got a 170a unit, as tested before shipping.

SO what do you want to know about your alternator Dave?
Thank you Eric,
This is more than I ever knew before, so I appreciate the clarification. AD230, huh? I'll have to brush up on what that is. It worked fairly well (better than the Bosch units up to that point), but it just couldn't keep up after I went with my current big fans and AC. I was having to keep the idle above normal with that heavy load to keep voltage above 13. The new 6 phase definitely keeps up (night and day difference), but as you say the belts are the limiting factor.
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Old 07-18-2019, 06:13 PM   #69
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None of these are "mystery alternators."
Mine was. I was trying to get ANY info from Mechman for many years after you left just cause I was curious about what it was. They offered nothing. I assumed they maybe didn't know what it was (being one-off makes sense now) or if they just didn't want to talk about it. They would never say.
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Old 07-18-2019, 07:28 PM   #70
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Looks like a good setup. The suggestion I have for you to consider is the Gates dual V belts. They sell V belts that are two V belts joined together. There is a measuring tool they use to get the correct spacing. These are used on trucks. I have a 1999 gates catalog that features them. I never tried one because I couldn't find one short enough. I did find the correct spacing that fit the Volvo dual pulley. With the added length of the tensioner there may be one that fits for you.
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Old 07-19-2019, 07:46 AM   #71
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The suggestion I have for you to consider is the Gates dual V belts. They sell V belts that are two V belts joined together. There is a measuring tool they use to get the correct spacing. These are used on trucks. I have a 1999 gates catalog that features them. I never tried one because I couldn't find one short enough. I did find the correct spacing that fit the Volvo dual pulley. With the added length of the tensioner there may be one that fits for you.
The Gates website doesn't talk about a Dual V-Belt, but they show "PU V-Belts" (pic below). Page here: https://www.gates.com/us/en/power-tr...-v-belts/c/114

Maybe the PU belt is their new name for it. As far as length, they begin at 1000 mm, so it could fit my application (I'm using 1060 mm now). The Gates site doesn't seem to have the width specs you have in your catalog.

I do see some places offering Gates "Dual V-Belts" for sale, but so far none of those list any width specs. I like the style, but I have some doubts about it fitting our pulleys, since our pulleys have a fairly wide wall between the belts.

There are some places offering things like Gates Powerband Joined Belts and Polyflex JB belts, which are the same type of belt. But again there is little info on the width specs. http://www.biedlers-belts.com/powerb...ed-belts.html/ And at about $70 I don't want to buy something just to see it up close.

Here's a 300-plus page Gates PDF catalog I found dated 2010: https://www.bearingsandindustrialsup...belt_drive.pdf It's extensive and it probably has the info you found. I'll look at it closer later.
Dave


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Old 07-19-2019, 10:18 AM   #72
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For a while several companies, including Gates, were selling matched pairs as well. I have to go that route on the Dodge, seen some large variances on the same part number, but the MP seem pretty damned close.
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Old 07-19-2019, 11:05 AM   #73
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That is what I meant. However, the version I am referring too was also flat on the back of the belt. It may be that it is the powerband version. I went to my local truck parts supplier and that is where we tried a few belts and one type fit the alternator pulley I brought with me.

The front of the catalog has a section on using their tool to get the spacing and depth proper. They are different colored pieces of plastic to fit up to the pulleys.
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Old 07-19-2019, 11:33 AM   #74
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For a while several companies, including Gates, were selling matched pairs as well. I have to go that route on the Dodge, seen some large variances on the same part number, but the MP seem pretty damned close.
Good to know. I've seen those variances too. I returned some that were not very close to each other.
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Old 07-22-2019, 01:16 PM   #75
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The Gates website doesn't talk about a Dual V-Belt, but they show "PU V-Belts" (pic below). Page here: https://www.gates.com/us/en/power-tr...-v-belts/c/114

Maybe the PU belt is their new name for it. As far as length, they begin at 1000 mm, so it could fit my application (I'm using 1060 mm now). The Gates site doesn't seem to have the width specs you have in your catalog.

I do see some places offering Gates "Dual V-Belts" for sale, but so far none of those list any width specs. I like the style, but I have some doubts about it fitting our pulleys, since our pulleys have a fairly wide wall between the belts.

There are some places offering things like Gates Powerband Joined Belts and Polyflex JB belts, which are the same type of belt. But again there is little info on the width specs. http://www.biedlers-belts.com/powerb...ed-belts.html/ And at about $70 I don't want to buy something just to see it up close.

Here's a 300-plus page Gates PDF catalog I found dated 2010: https://www.bearingsandindustrialsup...belt_drive.pdf It's extensive and it probably has the info you found. I'll look at it closer later.
Dave


Few things:

Those belts will require machining on the pulleys. It would be easier to just move the damn alternator to the other side.

If you really want to run that, which will actually have less surface area than the stock arrangement, go buy a pulley for that style of belt and machine your stock pulleys to match.

If you upgrade to the BMW electric power steering pump, youll need to upgrade to a 500 amp alternator.

Alternatively:

Just get a proper sized fan, one of these https://derale.com/product-footer/el...n-probe-detail and a normal 100-140 amp alternator and move on with life
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