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Old 08-14-2012, 09:55 PM   #126
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ford column in there? you gonna put the foxbody dash in as well?
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Old 08-14-2012, 10:21 PM   #127
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Open to any and all input, so if you have any good ideas, let's hear em.

The PV Spearing Column (TM) is non-collapse, and one piece all the way into the steering box. As I'm planning (and praying to GAWD I can figure out a way) to swap to RnP at the bottom end, I need a different column, and lo and behold, what do I have parked in my yard but a Foxtang.

PnP generally has a 1/2 price sale on labor day, so hopefully I can source a rack (currently looking at Miata, Chevette, Mustang II, Pinto, Fiero, any other small narrow non-power-steering car) and maybe a column too.

Upside of the Fomoco column is the ignition switch has the necessary outputs to feed the O2 sensors. Who knows why they did it that way.

Frankly, I've been worrying about the brake/clutch pedals, brake master, that kind of stuff, since it needs to be sorted before building the headers and engine/trans mounts.
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Old 08-14-2012, 10:22 PM   #128
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Old 08-18-2012, 06:22 PM   #129
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After some helpful discussion on OT, decided to hack out the firewall and frame spar in order to mount the Mustang pedal cluster and brake booster.

This is because he PV firewall is angled, the Mustang is vertical. Rather than reinvent the pedal situation, I decided it'd be easier, cheaper, and more consistent to use the donor pedal assembly; this includes the clutch and throttle cables as well as the brakes.

Cut a hole, made it just right, tacked the firewall section in place, verified the pedals were usable, and then filled in the join.
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Old 08-18-2012, 06:25 PM   #130
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From the cardboard template, I made a piece of metal to fit, foogled around with it for a while, then welded away.

Looks like I'll be enlarging the footwell to make more space for my clutch foot. Kind of expected this.

Otherwise, the mounting of the pedals is good to go. Very solid, no flex to speak of. Will have to reinforce the clutch cable mount when I get that far, but since it will hit the new firewall (to be created still) I will ignore for now.

I'm not much of a welder, but getting better. At least I have plenty of grinding wheels.
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Old 08-19-2012, 06:43 AM   #131
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I take it you realise that the stuff you're cutting is structural? A PV shell is like an egg, there are very few box sections in the structure. The front legs are cantilevered on the bulkhead and under the floor and the seat crossmembers feed the forces into the inner rockers. Those front legs are like a Y laid horizontally and you've cut one part of the Y feeding the forces into the bulkhead to fit the servo. The transmission tunnel is also part of the structure.
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Old 08-19-2012, 12:01 PM   #132
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Yessir I do!

The frame spar and firewall section are both welded to the booster well, which is welded to the firewall all around. While no engineer, I think I've more than replaced the original strength of that upper spar.

I will be rebuilding the firewall and trans tunnel after I get the engine location finalized. I will also be adding some reinforcements, likely behind the dash, down to the tunnel, and up to the front frame rails.

I'm also going to wind up replacing the floor pan, at least on the driver's side, it's rusted out pretty well from the firewall to the seat rail.
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Old 10-06-2012, 07:53 PM   #133
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Updatski!

Took the plunge and cut the pitman arm off the other day - a bigger job than I expected, this car was built to last, tellya whut.

Then revisited the engine's position for a couple reasons - hoping to keep the existing accessories and drivebelt setup, and body-on mockup showed the engine really had to move back quite a bit. The pics here are as far back as I could shove it for now, since that's as far as I cut the tunnel out. May well move it back more once I get moving on that. Once committed to having the rearmost exhaust runner make a tight 90 and angle forward, the sky's the limit. Front-mid engine, anyone?
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Old 10-06-2012, 07:55 PM   #134
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Bought a rack and pinion (freshy reman from the looks of it!) from a 96 Impreza at PnP, about $60 after core and whatnot on half off day.

Then a $25 tap to cut more threads on it... and chopped about 2" off one side and about 1" off the other - had to put the rack in off-center in order to have the input shaft clear the frame rails. Other solutions, such as routing the shaft through the control arms or through the crossmember itself seemed like an asinine solution when I didn't even know how big an issue it would be.

Outer tie rods are from many Toyota things and were about $10 each. I had to bore out the steering arms about 1-2mm, but there's still loads of meat on the bone, so I think I'm solid there.

Made my self a fancy-dancy wooden crossmember to hold the rack while I mocked everything up. Worked out so well I may just fiberglass it to the frame rails and run it!

Since it's what the cool kids always talk about, and since it actually is probably a good idea with something this custom, I measured the bump steer. Very interested in any feedback on these numbers. Not sure I have any real solution, since the rack and tie rod length is fixed at this point.... moving the rack up a touch might be possible, but from postings in my OT musing threads suggest down is the way to go, and since that would create issues with the steering shaft, I think I'm just going to leave it.

My baseline ride height is 285mm (floor to tabs on the framerail - arbitrary point). Got that by setting the engine in and then standing on the frame to account for fluids, sheetmetal, etc.

Height - Pass - Driver (toe change all are toe-in)
230 - 0 - 3 (bottomed out, shocks, I think)
250 - 0 - 0
270 - 0 - 0
290 - 1 - 1
310 - 2 - 3
330 - 3 - 9
350 - 13 - 15

My thought is to lower the car (convenient solution) 25-30mm, putting static ride height in the sweet spot. That would give me 30mm compression and 30mm rebound with a max of 3mm bump toe.

Funny thing about all this, and the pics don't really show, but the long tie rod is on the driver's side, so the inner tie rod pivot is closer to the "ideal" line between inner upper and lower control arm pivots.

So, theoretically, that should be the side that has less bump steer. But it doesn't work out that way. Maybe there's some voodoo at work here, but since I never bothered to find the instant centers, probably not really worth getting excited about.

I *am* excited to be moving on this thing finally. The bump steer issue is one of the things that pops into my mind at 3-4am for some damnfool reason.

Kidding aside, I got a free.99 sprint car frame off CL (delivered, no less) that I'll use as a source of tubing. Will have to think things through about the actual mounting of the rack - feedback welcome on this as well:
The crossmember is a bolt-in item, not sure if that's worth preserving or not; but if I weld the rack mount to the frame to the crossmember, that would be an issue.
Not sure if I should worry about tying the rack crossmember to the suspension crossmember anyway....?
There are some captive nuts in the frame for swaybar mounts, so I could maybe run some tubes from the crossmember to the frame, use the swaybar captives for a bolt-in, and then mount the rack on top. Probably be a bitch if I ever have to take the rack out, haha. But this sure feels like an epiphany. My back is killing me (getting old is fun) otherwise I'd probably hustle out there and eyeball things.

Engineering a car from a stack of junk sure is fun! (actually quite enjoying the process!)
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Old 10-06-2012, 08:03 PM   #135
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as a followup to my own posts, used some paper laid on the monitor to eyeball the instant centers...

At the baseline height of 285, the instant centers are more or less on the ground.
At the lowered height, they are wayyyyyyyyy underground.

Pretty sure underground roll center is a bad scene, especially being as far from the center of gravity. yipes, thing thing might wind up one ass-jacked jack-ass of a handling nightmare. At least it should be pretty fast.
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Old 10-06-2012, 08:32 PM   #136
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I want to hear all about this on monday. I hope there isn't a client booked after 4:15
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Old 10-06-2012, 08:43 PM   #137
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Only you and me and Russian River down the road apace, you beardly bastage you.
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Old 10-06-2012, 09:22 PM   #138
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Sounds like a ManDate
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Old 10-07-2012, 09:05 PM   #139
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Sounds like a ManDate
Just don't let it become a bromance.
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Old 10-08-2012, 02:46 AM   #140
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too late
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Old 10-14-2012, 09:07 PM   #141
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Making a plywood crossmember to mock up the steering was a great idea, except it's totally in the way when it comes to mocking up the actual crossmember.

Took a couple basic measurements (rack distance from suspension crossmember and frame rails) then used the lift and some jackstands to get it more or less held in place.

Went out to my trusty sprint car frame, and cut off a likely looking section of tube.

Ground that down to fit pretty well, then turned my eye to the rack brackets. The passenger side bracket is just support, the driver's side does the actual location laterally as well as pitch.

Built a couple of brackets... the driver's side needs to be worked on further - I'm going to use the extra length to tie back to the rack crossmember as well as (probably) gusset it along crossmember, gotta be sure the driver's side bracket won't flex.

Next step will be to tack the brackets on the crossmember, verify that the universals clear the frame rail (that's my main interference point), and lay the engine in (AGAIN) to be sure the crank pulley clears the rack and crossmember. Still considering moving the engine back even further... both for added underhood room as well as weight distribution.

Not sure if I will bother tying the rack crossmember to the suspension crossmember. Any thoughts?
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Old 10-23-2012, 07:14 PM   #142
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After much handwringing in an OT thread about how to mount the rack, wound up mounting it as I'd originally planned... time will tell how it holds up.

Crossmember is 1" x .070 or therabouts chromoly. First time working with it, really nice material. The passenger side bracket is a couple pieces of tube, attached to some 1" square steel I had laying around. It's really thick stuff. The driver's side is all square tube, since it needs to form a square with the OEM bracket.

The bead you see around the business end is to get it up to the right width. I'm not terribly excited about it, since the OEM bracket is the right width and should more than suffice for side-to-side loading.

Then took (another) look at engine placement. Ran it back as far as I easily could, found the driver's rear sparkplug would be all-but-unchangeable. Guess I could make an underdash access panel.
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Old 10-23-2012, 07:24 PM   #143
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So, since that wasn't going to work, moved the engine back up, and checked things out. I think this is where it'll lie.

OEM alternator and bracket fit fine. Assuming PS will be okay as well.... it mounts on the other side. Worst case scenario, custom brackets for that one.

Lots of room on either side for headers, mufflers, etc. Still thinking that one through, but leaning toward mufflers in the inner fender area with fender-exit tips. Also madly pondering turbos, since they would look pretty bad ass sticking out of the tops of the front fenders.

Plugs will be accessible, though #8 will continue to be tricky. Funny that it almost lines up with the detent for the original steering column.

Speaking of which, if you squint your eyes just right, you can see the tiny hole of daylight I have to sneak the column through. Hoping to keep the Ford pedals mounted as-is, to keep the heel-toe relationship.

Nice to see the clutch will be well in front of the pedal area, just in case something lets go... my feet should be okay. Gonna have a funny bump in the floor for the clutch cable at the fork.

Details, details...

Also a shot of the front bodywork mounted, sitting more or less at the new static ride height. Will come down a bit more when I lower the rear, since the measurement point is at the tip of the front framerails. Will need some widening of the fenders, but knew that all along. Looking forward to it, actually. Always wanted something with E30M3 style flares...
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Old 10-24-2012, 12:14 PM   #144
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Originally Posted by Iamtheonlyreal1 View Post
Pretty cool, but be careful with the bumpsteer situation caused by the rack and pinion position..

Here is my PV544 rack and pinion placement, and you can see that the rack arms and the lower control arms run parallel, which is very important here.. You will also see the bumpster adapters I made, and you may have to make something similar for your application..

Dont mean to hijack at all, just wanted to point the bumpsteer out, and will share any help if I can.. I would like to see more and more of the Modern Builds of the Classic Volvo's.
Flattered to hear swapping in 15-20 year old tech is "modern"... I'd been considering this more of a dollar-cheap, labor-intensive V8 swap. Just the V8 swap led to a complete reworking of the steering along with the drivetrain, clutch, and brake master situation.

This pic shows the static ride height (I think, it's a little grainy)
http://forums.turbobricks.com/attach...1&d=1349567727

Here's the data from earlier in the thread:
Quote:
Height - Pass - Driver (toe change all are toe-in)
230 - 0 - 3
250 - 0 - 0
270 - 0 - 0
290 - 1 - 1
310 - 2 - 3
330 - 3 - 9
350 - 13 - 15
Basically planning to set static height to 260 - 270 (vs the 295 baseline). That's 1.5" down and up with minimal steer and toe. Don't know how much actual suspension movement I'll get, or how significant a few mm of bump steer is...

Ran things down until the shocks were fully compressed (ie, crushed the stops with the engine weight)- didn't really get any worse. so there may be room to go lower with different shocks and shortened stops.

I've also rationalized that toe in during droop might be a way to maintain stability when the front lifts under acceleration... Which I do expect it to do, with the engine as far back as it is.

Lowering the rack might have been the way to go, but then the crossmember would block the steering shaft - hence the really deep setup you've got up there. The other issue is the lower the rack, the narrower it needs to be. That's really hard with JY parts.

For sure this is in no way optimal, but I'm using (barely modified) stock components at this point. If I get serious about the front end, I'll likely wind up redoing the whole thing, and then there's even less Volvo left on the car.

Mostly, I have to stop waffling and start building.

Though, I'll admit, I'm curious about pricing of the front end kit. Don't see any numbers on your site? For reference, my disk swap was about 300, rack and pinion about 100.

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Old 12-02-2012, 09:18 PM   #145
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Well isn't this cute, over a month and no updates. I'd like to say it's because I've been busy working sheit out, but sadly, not the case. Bought a new MTB and have been enjoying that as much as I can, and the short cold days kind of suck the wind out of my sails. Spun my wheels for a few weeks trying to get a steering wheel on Ebay guess the secret's out there. Wound up with a 13" Grant black leather job, which will work great.

Over the last couple days I worked on the steering column situation. The column is from the 90 mustang. I'd already planned on relocating the ignition to the dash for old skool coolness, and the latemodel plastic combo switch bugged me to no end, so time to figure out how to mate the 544 TS to the fox column.

At first, I was stoked to see that the 544 combo switch holder and column shroud pretty well fit the column, but after drilling/airhammering the Ford TS/ign mount off the column, found out it wasn't quite going to fit, and even if it did, the TS fingers would be too far inboard to work right.
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Old 12-02-2012, 09:21 PM   #146
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So I took the Ford upper bearing retainer/plate, trimmed it down to fit the narrower grant horn contacts, and then realized that the contacts wouldn't reach the grant adapter anyway... because the airbag clockspring isn't there anymore. Ahh, details. And though I looooove my 6V horns on 12V I turned my back on that, and dealt with getting the column as short as possible, and getting the 544 TS switch to fit right.

The Ford setup has the upper column bearing in the ign switch. Since it's not part of the picture anymore, I had to figure something else out. The bearing happens to fit nicely in the column housing, so it was a matter of making a lower perch and tacking on a couple bolts to hold the upper retainer plate.

Three or four hours of measuring and thinking, followed by ten minutes of actual fab work. I sure am glad I signed up for engineering a car from the switchgear out.

Similar situation for the TS switch. Initially planned on mounting it to the upper retainer, but decided I'd be better off having it be something I can access without removing the wheel. That's one of the hardest parts of this project, all along - planning for future servicability.

At any rate, got the signals to cancel without making untoward contact with any other moving pieces. Next up will be the horn contacts, then mounting the column to the car. Currently thinking of the pedal cluster as a tie in (OEM in the Ford) and a 544-style lightweight upper retainer at the dash. Want it to be sturdy, but no need for major structural overkill, since the steering wheel isn't really subjected to the kind of beating that suspension components get. Gonna be fun threading things down between the brake and gas pedals.
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Old 12-02-2012, 10:12 PM   #147
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hey! I just realized that you now get to fix the problem of the 544's wheel being off-centre from the driver's seat! nice!

The only thing that bugged me about my 544
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Old 12-02-2012, 10:50 PM   #148
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Hah, shows what you know.

I'm planning to have the column come into the dash at the stock position, which is by OEM offset a couple inches from the seat. What makes it more hysterical is the pedals being shifted quite a ways to the left. Twister anyone?

The ink isn't dry, but I'm kinda stuck with the pedal position, and there's a shockingly narrow aperture for the column to snake through. At this point, willing to let the chips fall where they may. Mixed metaphors anyone, I have the blender ready?

To add to the hilarity, if I were to try to move the column to the left, there's the frame rails to address... the rack is way inboard, and optimal column would be outboard.

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Old 12-02-2012, 10:50 PM   #149
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Old 12-02-2012, 11:05 PM   #150
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Early Tempests used a wire rope driveshaft, has anyone put one in a steering coulmn?
Or Hondas have a zizzag inside the car.
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