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Old 12-25-2018, 02:26 AM   #351
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Originally Posted by culberro View Post
I have a completely caged Volvo 240, as well as a cage kit for a 240 in the shop if you want to come by and take any measurements.
The shop is near i5/217/hwy99
Who makes the cage kit? I think both of us are curious, as I’m trying to have Sean help me bend some tube up.
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Old 12-25-2018, 04:13 AM   #352
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Who makes the cage kit? I think both of us are curious, as I’m trying to have Sean help me bend some tube up.
Talk to megulon-7, he’s been working on some nice fitting Volvo cages (Pat’s rally car, for instance). There’s a cage kit (done by megulon-7) that is in the Portland area that might be for sale sometime soon. It consists of the main-hoop and half-lateral bars.
I’ll be on the shop the 27th if you want to swing by.
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Old 12-25-2018, 04:43 AM   #353
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Yeah any leads on a cage would be great, I need a 6 point for the 2 series
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Old 12-25-2018, 11:31 AM   #354
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Yeah any leads on a cage would be great, I need a 6 point for the 2 series
Talk to Al (megulon-7) on TB.
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Old 12-28-2018, 12:55 PM   #355
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Talk to Al (megulon-7) on TB.
I sent him a PM have not heard a peep back.

Been messing with some tubing and struggling with what to do. Halfway tempted to just bag on this idea after getting 742 different opinions on the roll bar/roll cage/street car/harnesses/track car debate. All good info, just getting analysis paralysis.

Main hoop is done for the most part. Just tacked in place for now but it came together pretty nicely.



Floor plate and rear fender well plates are built and ready to go in for the drivers side.





Going to keep trucking on this over the weekend and see what I can come up with.

Its a street car that will do some track days.

Might even be able to work on the exhaust this weekend if I get my **** together.

Sean
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Old 12-28-2018, 01:18 PM   #356
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Its better to have your rear stays go direct to the frame rail over your rear coilover mounts. got to give them the stiffness!!!
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Old 12-28-2018, 02:42 PM   #357
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Its better to have your rear stays go direct to the frame rail over your rear coilover mounts. got to give them the stiffness!!!
Yeah, totally agree. Like I have said, its all about compromise when building an actual street car.

I want a back seat in the car still for aesthetics purposes.

Its been a very, very tough balance on what to do for this. Everyone has their own opinion, trying to take mine and everyones opinion in place.

If I delete the rear seats, I might as well do a full cage in the car. If that is the case, any comfortable street driving is totally out the window.

Car is being built for fun driving car that can do some track days.

I am losing sleep over this one.

Sean
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Old 12-28-2018, 03:10 PM   #358
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http://forums.turbobricks.com/showpo...&postcount=208

I couldn't find any pictures from inside the trunk, but one of these shows the angle of the rear down tubes passing through the rear bulkhead, hitting the frame rail in the trunk of Rob's former 242. I think I would aim for somewhere back there, rather than the top of the inner fender that's just thick sheet metal without any structure beneath it. But I don't know the angle of these down tubes...looks extreme...probably could have used some additional reinforcements.

Check with the rulebook of any organizations you might race with and see what they require. 24hr lemons (not likely, I know...) requires .125" thick spreader plates of at least 24 sq in. SCCA GCR allows 0.080" min thickness for spreader plates, up to 144 sq in and on multiple planes. That was something I would want to take advantage of...maximize the spreader plates and join the floor to the rocker as much as possible.

Improved Touring requires mounting the cage within the passenger compartment, but if you're not going to run with any group that has such a restriction, I'd suggest investigating other rulebooks and see what they say about mounting points and the angle requirement of the rear down tubes.

I've never built a cage, so my advice is always going to be to ask those who have, and find out why it's done a certain way.

The cage in our 240 lemons car was out of an E36 Speedvision car. It had a halo extending backward off the main hoop, just like the front halo, but backwards towards the top of the rear windscreen. The down tubes came off this rear halo and were much closer to 45 degrees than what you see in Rob's 242 above. There were diagonal supports from the main hoop up to the rear halo / down tube connection point.



A few more E36 examples I found with the X-brace moved well behind the main hoop by way of a rear halo:

http://www.zoompics.com/gallery/2001/01stc-2.jpg
https://1c2a8a2161d644d95009-22d26b3...lue_bmw_08.jpg
http://touringcarracing.net/Pictures...tf-1993-3a.jpg
http://www.stanceiseverything.com/wp.../09/btcc_5.jpg
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Old 12-28-2018, 03:24 PM   #359
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Yeah, totally agree. Like I have said, its all about compromise when building an actual street car.

I want a back seat in the car still for aesthetics purposes.

Its been a very, very tough balance on what to do for this. Everyone has their own opinion, trying to take mine and everyones opinion in place.

If I delete the rear seats, I might as well do a full cage in the car. If that is the case, any comfortable street driving is totally out the window.

Car is being built for fun driving car that can do some track days.

I am losing sleep over this one.

Sean
Do you plan to have rear passengers or just want the rear seat to have it look finished? By your aesthetics comment it sounds like you dont plan to carry people back there.

My vote is to either make it a functional 4 point with good bracing to the pick up points or do nothing at all. If you do want to run the cage, id treat the rear seat like a 911 does... just use some decent carpeting and decorative padding to finish the area etc...
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Old 12-31-2018, 12:32 AM   #360
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Do you plan to have rear passengers or just want the rear seat to have it look finished? By your aesthetics comment it sounds like you dont plan to carry people back there.

My vote is to either make it a functional 4 point with good bracing to the pick up points or do nothing at all. If you do want to run the cage, id treat the rear seat like a 911 does... just use some decent carpeting and decorative padding to finish the area etc...
I like the finished look of the back seat is all. I have never seen a car that has a roll bar and no back seat look "right" if that means anything.

Towery, thanks for the info, its a great read for sure I just cannot commit to a full cage, it will make the car horrible on the street and I am building this as a street car.

Always appreciate your advice.

In the end, stiffness and function won out over form and fitment of the rear seats.

I can tell you that this was a **** ton of work.

It went in and out of the car too many times to count 90 % of them by myself. I had a hand today thank god.

checking the main hoop for fitment against the seats





Mock up of the rear plates and down tubes.



Main structure tacked together and mocked up the down bars, ready to pull it all out and start welding







Commencing final welding. Was not quite sure how the 1/8" plate would weld to the factory sheetmetal but once I had the welder dialed in it was good to go.

Pretty happy with the way these laid out, directly over the rear crossmember and shock mount should stiffen up the back of the car a lot.





The way I built it I was able to slide the final welded main hoop with the down bars tacked on forward so I was able to final weld up the top of the down bars nicely and 100%.



Worked like a charm

I had a slight kick angle on one of the legs and it needed to get pushed back a hair so a little push with the porta power and it was all good!!



Welded out



The **** show of fire paper and all kinds of crap.



Hope to be able to get it scuffed, primed and painted tomorrow, maybe start on the exhaust next weekend.

Thanks for the pointers all.
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Old 12-31-2018, 01:31 AM   #361
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Lovin’ it.
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Old 12-31-2018, 12:08 PM   #362
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I think it looks great - good work. I went through the same thing on my 911 and decided in the end once a cage/roll-bar partial or otherwise is in the car - the back seat is no more. I have three kids and wouldn't put any of them in a car without the proper restraints with a cage in the car.

Are you going to be running harnesses or regular belts? Only reason I ask is that with reclining seats or seats that are capable of "folding" on a front or rear impact is kinda not a good idea with harnesses and most would suggest a shell for a seat. Otherwise use regular belts.

I think you can make a rear seat delete look good - its just a matter of smoothing out the surface so carpet lays flat/uniform. Make a parcel shelf or other useful platform around the cage. Plus you get weight savings and a purposeful look.

Only other thing is maybe tie in the B pillar...? Really stiffens up the top of the car up high near the roof line...






Last edited by nolift911; 12-31-2018 at 01:35 PM..
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Old 12-31-2018, 01:09 PM   #363
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^Agreed, the back of (for e.g.) a GT3-RS looks "intended" with a cage and carpet.
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Old 12-31-2018, 10:26 PM   #364
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I think it looks great - good work. I went through the same thing on my 911 and decided in the end once a cage/roll-bar partial or otherwise is in the car - the back seat is no more. I have three kids and wouldn't put any of them in a car without the proper restraints with a cage in the car.

Are you going to be running harnesses or regular belts? Only reason I ask is that with reclining seats or seats that are capable of "folding" on a front or rear impact is kinda not a good idea with harnesses and most would suggest a shell for a seat. Otherwise use regular belts.

I think you can make a rear seat delete look good - its just a matter of smoothing out the surface so carpet lays flat/uniform. Make a parcel shelf or other useful platform around the cage. Plus you get weight savings and a purposeful look.

Only other thing is maybe tie in the B pillar...? Really stiffens up the top of the car up high near the roof line...





Three points on the street harnesses on the track and auto cross is my plan.

Great pics, car is beautiful. Funny about tying it into the b pillar M.H. Sent me a pm giving some pointers on those. Good plan I didnt even think about to be honest.

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^Agreed, the back of (for e.g.) a GT3-RS looks "intended" with a cage and carpet.
I like that look not sure how to pull it off in a much bigger area like the Volvo.

Sometimes you get some great pointers. Tying the main hoop into the b pillars would stiffen up the chassis significantly. So I whipped these puppies up today.









Turned out pretty good considering it was a little bit of an after thought. Ties into the factory seatbelt mount on the b pillar.

Went and got some paint matched to the seats...its close, not perfect. 2 coats of etching primer and 2 coats of color going on. Regret the cage being so close to the headliner at this point it was a bitch to mask and I got some on the headliner. Hope that I can use some mineral spirits to get it off.





Turned into the worlds fattest contortionist the past few days, was the most fun when I was painting and painted myself a few times.









Hope to get the rear wheelwells buttoned up in the next few weeks so I can get the carpet in, then seats. Exhaust after that.

Appreciate the good feedback on the b pillar tie in.

Sean
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Old 01-02-2019, 06:30 PM   #365
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Looks sweet, those turned out great - I like the brown!!
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Old 01-03-2019, 03:31 AM   #366
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There was a wagon at the lemons race down here and had a nice roll bar in it. Wherever it got close the the inside structure - a, b, or c pillar or lower inner rocker panel they welded it to there as well. They got the bar close enough in those spots to be able to weld it as an extra joint. Was on a wagon but im sure it helped stiffen the car up quite a bit. Nice to see the work on the car again.
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Old 01-12-2019, 06:39 PM   #367
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Looks sweet, those turned out great - I like the brown!!
Thanks I dig the seats as well.

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There was a wagon at the lemons race down here and had a nice roll bar in it. Wherever it got close the the inside structure - a, b, or c pillar or lower inner rocker panel they welded it to there as well. They got the bar close enough in those spots to be able to weld it as an extra joint. Was on a wagon but im sure it helped stiffen the car up quite a bit. Nice to see the work on the car again.
I like the idea but in order to do that its a total gut of the interior so full race car.

Been battling with motivation a lot lately. It seems like you make a dent on some major project then there is another major one right in front of you. I just want to go for a cruise in something cool talk cars with some car people and then Ill be fine for a while.

Managed to use my neighbors lift to get the exhaust all fabricated. I should have ordered a few more u bends to make the offsets proper instead of having to pie cut them but I was in a time crunch to get it off the lift and back into my shop so it will have to do.

Vibrant stainless pipe and mandrel u bends, vibrant interconnecting v band flanges, 2.5 on the crossover 3" out of the muffler and over the axle. Its very tight back there, exhaust tucks up very nicely though and I like the idea of a tailpipe.







Car looks good from this view so I snapped a pic =)



I have practiced on the tig on stainless and just could not get to the point where I was comfortable not ****ing this up. I dropped off the exhaust to a buddy to get welded out this morning, he is far more capable than I am. Should have it back in the next few days and fit up.

Onto the task I have been dreading for months, closing up the massive gap in the rear fenders from pushing the quarters out an inch.

Got some ****ty shrinker and stretcher from HF and had some 16ga sheetmetal sheared up and bent into a 3/4x3/4" Flange or 90. In case you are wondering, these pieces were cut into 6' lengths.

got to work trying to figure out how to do this, Got the hang of it pretty fast and got the flange that will be welded to the quarter panels built so started getting the sheetmetal all cleaned up, void of any paint and getting a nice flange on the inside of the wheelwel so I have something to land it on.





You can see that there is a compound bend but it fits the inside of the quarter panel perfectly.



The next 3 or 4 hours were spent fitting up a patch piece that would tie this all together. All in all it came out very well for me not being a sheetmetal guy or a body guy I am very happy. Its very solid, i used my hole punch/flange tool to knock out all the holes to plug weld to the car, its very solid and should seal up like OEM once I get the other side done and throw some seam sealer on. Now to do the other side.







This little burn from last night is impeding my progress today never thought such a small burn could be so damn painful.



Hope to make some more progress on it again soon.......crown vic swap and c notch on an old F100 tomorrow.

Sean
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Old 01-12-2019, 06:55 PM   #368
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Nice work! How did the cheapo shrinker/stretcher work out for you? I might have missed it, but what did those seats come out of originally?
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Old 01-12-2019, 07:59 PM   #369
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Nice work! How did the cheapo shrinker/stretcher work out for you? I might have missed it, but what did those seats come out of originally?
I sold them to Sean after having them kick around for a few years. I bought them from a guy a few towns over who said that they came in an E21 BMW he bought, though they look nothing like E21 Recaros.
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Old 01-15-2019, 05:36 PM   #370
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This car is going to be so good. I just read through all the roll cage stuff, and was admiring your attention to detail and concern about having it looked "finished". I can appreciate that. And THEN I remembered the engine that's in it. So rad.

I have a question about welding technique. It looks like when you welded your spreader plates to the factory sheet metal, you just stacked a bunch of tack welds on top of each other. Is that the case?
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Old 01-15-2019, 09:28 PM   #371
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What are those seats out of?
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Old 01-15-2019, 09:36 PM   #372
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I sold them to Sean after having them kick around for a few years. I bought them from a guy a few towns over who said that they came in an E21 BMW he bought, though they look nothing like E21 Recaros.
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What are those seats out of?
See above
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