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Old 08-08-2017, 10:38 PM   #1
FezMonki
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Default 960 16v

So I'm in the market for a 960 2.0 16v turbo from 92-93, and found a couple from 800$ to 2200$ (100k miles mint condition).
An ex Volvo mechanic keeps telling me these engines are absolute trash, but I always forget to ask for details. Something about the head.
Is this a serious concern or did he just see three bad ones and decided to badmouth all of them?
Aside from doing the timing belt instantly (I have ptsd from bent valves on 16v engines on Alfa's) is there anything else that requires immediate attention to keep the thing from running happily, or at least avoid total destruction?
I read somewhere something about oil pumps being crappy, but can't recall where.

I have a redblock M90 to swap in it, and the driveshaft off a whiteblock M90 960, might this driveshaft fit without modification? I'll get the third welded, I have the M90 crossmember with support, and can someone confirm what kind of clutch kit I need, and if I'm keeping the M46 flywheel?
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Old 08-09-2017, 03:04 AM   #2
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I went through enough B204FT engines to come to think they really do wear down much faster than what we Volvoists would consider normal. I guess that answers it - it's not a bad engine per se, but it's not anywere as hard-core indestructable as your run of the mill B230F, even FT.

Apart from that, there is what you mentioned. The second you get the car, you want to do the timing belt. Then you want to get rid of the auxilliary - balance shaft - belt.


While you're in there, you want to order new, "improved design" oil pump pulley - P/N 9135112. It's about 90€ and was still available last time I bought one, couple of years ago. You want to do this. If you are in doubt, I'll post some pictures of broken ones to change your mind. Also get a 12.9 grade bolt of the correct size from a hardware store to hold it down, DO NOT reuse original bolt.


I'm not sure will whiteblock M90 driveshaft fit, but it just might. As for clutch, you can use M46 flywheel, M46 B204FT pressure plate - which is quite a bit beefier that B230F/FT pressure plate and 850 n/a clutch disc, as it's correct spline for M90 and 228mm, while T-5 one is 240mm. I guess you could machine M46 flywheel for it to fit, but I'd rather take the 850 n/a clutch to a clutch shop, as 850 discs have thinner "bite area" around the circumference. That's what I did on my M90 to B204GT swap.

Oh, and don't throw that M46 away, for some reason original B204FT ones can take A LOT more than normal M46's.
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Old 08-09-2017, 10:14 AM   #3
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The oil pump bolt has been known to snap. The fix is a grade 10 bolt and proper belt tension.

And they commonly leak from the balance shafts and valve cover.
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Old 08-09-2017, 10:19 AM   #4
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the 940lpt (the OEM model that came with the M90) front half of the driveshaft fits straight into the rear half of a 780 B204FT/GT driveshaft. No mods at all. (except maybe a rebalance)
Maybe the same works on a 960 with B204FT/GT ?

Last edited by Janspeed; 08-09-2017 at 10:26 AM..
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Old 08-09-2017, 12:05 PM   #5
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All 700/900 series driveshafts, front and rear, fit into each other, respectively. That's not an issue. It might be longer or shorter than needed, that's all.

ZVOLV, all B204FT/GT engines have automatic tensioners, none of that early B234F manual stuff. 12.9 beats "grade 10". All engines leak at Valve cover, it's just that 16v gasket is a bit more complicated to set up, and more expensive than 8v stuff, so chanches are it was not replaced. That's all. I've had new OE valve cover gasket set on my B204GT for years, no leak there. Same thing is with head halves - new o-rings and Volvo OE or "Херметик" sealant and Bob's your aunt.
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Old 08-09-2017, 01:16 PM   #6
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Thanks guys

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All 700/900 series driveshafts, front and rear, fit into each other, respectively. That's not an issue. It might be longer or shorter than needed, that's all.

ZVOLV, all B204FT/GT engines have automatic tensioners, none of that early B234F manual stuff. 12.9 beats "grade 10". All engines leak at Valve cover, it's just that 16v gasket is a bit more complicated to set up, and more expensive than 8v stuff, so chanches are it was not replaced. That's all. I've had new OE valve cover gasket set on my B204GT for years, no leak there. Same thing is with head halves - new o-rings and Volvo OE or "Херметик" sealant and Bob's your aunt.
And thank you especially for all the valuable info. I just realized I forgot to get back at you about this block, sorry about that. They had already tossed it away and I forgot to let you know fml.

These things pop up now and then, I'm pretty sure I'll manage to find spare blocks for the both of us in a years span or less. It averages at 200 Euro to the JY, and then we will figure out shipping em to you (if you want more than one, if I find them).

Is it the cylinders that wear down and it loses compression? Could we bore and sleeve them perhaps? Regarding the balancing ****ers on the sides, I remember removing them and trying to figure out a way to seal them off permanently when I was trying to fit that engine to the 142. Doable?

In a perfect world I'd like to get myself a spare block as well and try and resolve these congenital issues as well as a complete do over, and drop it into the car one day. The 940 b200ft's are nice, but factory 190hp (in a country where even changing your antenna is illegal) is just too seducing for me.
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Old 08-09-2017, 04:33 PM   #7
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I've got 3 B204FT spares at tho moment, so I'm not in a rush either...especially as I'm thinking along the lines of turbocharging a B234F for a change. Got a couple od those as well.

Last time I checked, 2nd oversize pistons were still available at Volvo - and only there, for a mere 940€ per set. Lol. Then add the cost of block overbore to that... So I went with my set of immaculate condition original pistons - unlike blocks, they seldom have any wear marks, even at 300.000+ km's and custom block sleeves, which a neighbourhood shop specializing in that kind of work did for me for around 400€. And yes, blocks wear out big time.

Balancefuqers are easy to get rid of. You unbolt them, tap 16mm freeze plugs in oil return holes, tap intake side oil feed hole for M12 19mm hex bolt, exhaust side for M6 grub ("worm") inbus screw and you're done. Loctite those bolts, of course. I think I posted pictures of when I did it in some thread, I can dig them up again if you'd like, and there are some pics of the process in Turbosteen's "760 16v turbo" thread as well. I wouldn't attempt it with the engine still in the car, though.

On a side note... Italia, Europe's tuning motherland, and even antenna change is now ilegal? I don't want to live on this planet any more...
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Old 08-09-2017, 05:15 PM   #8
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I've got 3 B204FT spares at tho moment, so I'm not in a rush either...especially as I'm thinking along the lines of turbocharging a B234F for a change. Got a couple od those as well.

Last time I checked, 2nd oversize pistons were still available at Volvo - and only there, for a mere 940€ per set. Lol. Then add the cost of block overbore to that... So I went with my set of immaculate condition original pistons - unlike blocks, they seldom have any wear marks, even at 300.000+ km's and custom block sleeves, which a neighbourhood shop specializing in that kind of work did for me for around 400€. And yes, blocks wear out big time.

Balancefuqers are easy to get rid of. You unbolt them, tap 16mm freeze plugs in oil return holes, tap intake side oil feed hole for M12 19mm hex bolt, exhaust side for M6 grub ("worm") inbus screw and you're done. Loctite those bolts, of course. I think I posted pictures of when I did it in some thread, I can dig them up again if you'd like, and there are some pics of the process in Turbosteen's "760 16v turbo" thread as well. I wouldn't attempt it with the engine still in the car, though.

On a side note... Italia, Europe's tuning motherland, and even antenna change is now ilegal? I don't want to live on this planet any more...
Oh no, here nothing has ever been legal. People do it, but if you get into an accident you are in a **** storm.
You can chage the antenna, that was an exaggeration, but: you can't change rim size, can't change engine in theory (even with an identical one), can't change gearbox, injector type, cam, nothing. Can't bolt in seats that aren't oem, no racing steering wheels if the oem had an airbag, not even braided break lines if they don't have an ITALIAN homologation paper (which none do for volvos, only tuv which isnt work anything here). No trailer hitch that wasn't made specifically for the car (so no fabrication whatsover), that still needs a special government inspection for 1000 euro. Can't map the ecu.

Now, what they will notice or won't is of course another matter, but on paper, absolutely nothing if not repainting and the antenna is legal.

About the 960, I'll probably bother you when I get it, as I don't want to bother you now and then I end up buying something else lol. I've been eyeing 3.0 aspirated 960's in Germany, to keep plated and insured there since my girlfriend lives there anyway, but they are all ****ing auto's, and rusty (Italian cars are absolutely rust free for obvious reasons).
I'm not sure why but the 2.0 16v inspires me more than the 3.0 whiteblock, for no real reason.

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Old 08-09-2017, 06:17 PM   #9
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But sleeving a spare engine engine and keeping original pistons with probably new rings might be a longer term fix? I will probably have to put an absolute **** ton of km's on the thing.
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Old 08-10-2017, 02:46 AM   #10
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T16's are inspiring engines, really. They inspire you to pull your hair all the time and curse the day you heard the "V"-word, but once you get into them, you really can't live without that. 3.0's are great, smooth cruisers, V6's are da shizz, but when you get hooked on T16's, that's it.

Sleeves are probably best bet, metallurgy there is at least as good as original block or better, and they're bored to each piston individually to ensure good fit.
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