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Old 08-12-2017, 04:50 PM   #1
OldGrandpaTune
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Default wiggly harmonic balancer

B230FT 1987 765.

My harmonic balancer came loose with 165xxx miles on the motor. I read a little and read about a key, index feature and no key. Deduced that locktite and an impact tighten are bad. Got it torqued to 200 with a long socket extender.

Now the harmonic balancer wiggles, and I am worried I missed a locating feature that throws off the pulley. Smooth as silk except for that.

Changed all the belts while in there. I have the balancer driving the power steering directly, instead of off the AC. That seems improbable that would matter.
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Old 08-12-2017, 05:50 PM   #2
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Is the rubber part between the pulleys and the center section of the balancer in good shape? The rubber can deteriorate and then it wobbles and even will slip..
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Old 08-12-2017, 06:36 PM   #3
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I was just going to post about this, my key sheared off, how good is locktite and proper torque?
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Old 08-12-2017, 06:50 PM   #4
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I was just going to post about this, my key sheared off, how good is locktite and proper torque?
You can get another gear on here or eBay for $20-25. I chose to get another gear when I shared the key off mine.
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Old 08-12-2017, 06:59 PM   #5
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Buy the crank holding tool guys - will save you a lot of grief over the long haul - even if you only use it every now and then

It is the only way that I know of PROPERLY AND SAFELY torque your red block crank bolt and get a true 60 degrees on it

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Old 08-12-2017, 07:01 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by OldGrandpaTune View Post
B230FT 1987 765.

My harmonic balancer came loose with 165xxx miles on the motor. I read a little and read about a key, index feature and no key. Deduced that locktite and an impact tighten are bad. Got it torqued to 200 with a long socket extender.

Now the harmonic balancer wiggles, and I am worried I missed a locating feature that throws off the pulley. Smooth as silk except for that.

Changed all the belts while in there. I have the balancer driving the power steering directly, instead of off the AC. That seems improbable that would matter.
What EXACTLY is wobbling? Like a bent axle or clockwise counter clockwise?

If you missed the index slot and tit all together, you'd know it
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Old 08-12-2017, 07:52 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Jimmy E. James View Post
Buy the crank holding tool guys - will save you a lot of grief over the long haul - even if you only use it every now and then

It is the only way that I know of PROPERLY AND SAFELY torque your red block crank bolt and get a true 60 degrees on it

Got that and it works wonders.

Wobbly is maybe 15 degrees off a perfect 0 degree center as the pulley rotates. That is a lot to me. Had a wheel do that because a bolt was put in the locating stud hole.
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Old 08-12-2017, 07:53 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by soclosenotnear View Post
You can get another gear on here or eBay for $20-25. I chose to get another gear when I shared the key off mine.
You mentioned gear? I was talking about the harmonic balancer not true in it's rotation. The gear for the cam drive is perfect.
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Old 08-12-2017, 08:15 PM   #9
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If you don't have the pulley seated on the nub on the gear, it can wobble pretty good, seen that a few times and had to fix it.
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Old 08-12-2017, 08:27 PM   #10
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If you don't have the pulley seated on the nub on the gear, it can wobble pretty good, seen that a few times and had to fix it.
That is what I needed to hear. I'll redo it tomorrow. Got the tightening tool, and also ground down a deep impact socket to allow tightening with the fan still on. This will go quickly.

Never thought to look for the nub on the gear itself.
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Old 08-13-2017, 07:10 AM   #11
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I took it back apart and inspected everything. There is no nub.

There is a slot in the harmonic balancer and another slot in the gear that may have contained a key at one time. There is no other feature on the gear. I did see a photo of later timing gears that did have a little locating tab on it though. Might order a new one just to change next time around.

My Volvo only takes my dog to Lowes on Sunday. Not a show stopper.
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Old 08-13-2017, 01:45 PM   #12
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GOTTA have the nub on the gear in order to line up the balancer. There should be a nub on the face and a keyway on the ID of the gear. If the balancer bolt came loose, usually that nub shears off since it's only for locating purposes before you tighten the balancer bolt. It's not an early/late thing, it's a B230 thing in general. If the keyway is still there to engage into the slot in the crank, you should be fine for now running that gear, as long as you don't need to anything with ignition timing, otherwise I'd grab a new one and swap it out.
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Old 08-13-2017, 04:36 PM   #13
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a new gear from ipd is 130 having no Volvo's in the yard here I fixed my gear with j.b. weld and a file however i now have several spare gears. if you need one pm me. all they needed for is setting ignition timing. t.d.c. can still be found with a screw driver. i would wait till you do the timing belt then replace the gear
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Old 08-13-2017, 04:39 PM   #14
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You can drill and dowel the gear.
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Old 08-13-2017, 05:26 PM   #15
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You can drill and dowel the gear.
There are instructions somewhere for drilling the gear and pulley for a dowel pin.
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Old 08-13-2017, 05:32 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by lummert View Post
There are instructions somewhere for drilling the gear and pulley for a dowel pin.
That sounds like the right solution. I am a manufacturing guy and we end up pinning everything. Perfect use for my new tabletop drillpress next time.

After reassembly with no pin or key, everything is smooth as silk. With my 30 miles weekly, this should last a while.

Thanks for the input gentleman, and ladies if such a unicorn exists on TB.
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Old 08-14-2017, 01:39 AM   #17
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That sounds like the right solution. I am a manufacturing guy and we end up pinning everything. Perfect use for my new tabletop drillpress next time.

After reassembly with no pin or key, everything is smooth as silk. With my 30 miles weekly, this should last a while.

Thanks for the input gentleman, and ladies if such a unicorn exists on TB.
I don't understand
The balancer wobbled, 15 degrees or so
You took it apart, inspected everything, found no locator titty(s) and put it all back together

And now, no wobble?

Something's going on - doesn't add up

On my B230FT the crank gear has a tit, facing into the inner hole of the gear that mates up with the slot in the crank stub, like a sort of captive half moon key, but instead of a key, it's a fat tit on the gear

Then there's a square bump (small tit) on the face of the crank gear to mate up with the groove in the balancer

These are both tits for the purposes of getting the proper index, not very strong mechanically like a traditional slot and half moon key (ones that would would be maybe 3/4 to an inch, like on an older V-8 American engine)

They are both just cast tits and square - the one on the inner diameter of the crank gear being the larger of the two

BOTH are fragile

I've seen these tits snapped off from guys using a breaker bar and the starter to loosen the crank bolt
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Old 08-14-2017, 02:56 AM   #18
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Buy the crank holding tool guys - will save you a lot of grief over the long haul - even if you only use it every now and then

It is the only way that I know of PROPERLY AND SAFELY torque your red block crank bolt and get a true 60 degrees on it
Do people actually do that? I just grab a 1/2" breaker bar and then an additional 2 foot pipe on that. No issues since.

I learned my lesson with one crank pulley already when not tightened properly
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Old 08-14-2017, 11:35 AM   #19
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Do people actually do that?
Do "people" actually do what? Use the right tool(s)?

Nothing wrong with a pull handle and a piece of pipe - about the only way I know of to get the final 60 degrees (my post was about holding the crank stationary, for disassembly and assembly, not actually tightening the bolt)

The crank tool is a cheap (and wise) investment - makes those big time emergency road side belt installs a hell of a lot easier too
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Old 08-14-2017, 11:46 AM   #20
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Do "people" actually do what? Use the right tool(s)?

Nothing wrong with a pull handle and a piece of pipe - about the only way I know of to get the final 60 degrees (my post was about holding the crank stationary, for disassembly and assembly, not actually tightening the bolt)

The crank tool is a cheap (and wise) investment - makes those big time emergency road side belt installs a hell of a lot easier too
Yeah I know. I bought the crank tool used a long time ago from a local guy. Use it every time I do the t belt.

I was wondering if people properly torqued the crank bolt and then added the additional degrees like you're supposed to. I recall doing that on my 1st or 2nd timing belt and then having the bolt come loose. My guess was an inaccurate torque wrench.

Now I just MAKE SURE the pulley is fully seated so I don't shear the keyway off (that's what happened when my pulley came loose and fell off), then I just tighten the living **** out of the crank bolt. Probably not 'ideal' but works every time.
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Old 08-14-2017, 11:56 AM   #21
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Yeah I know. I bought the crank tool used a long time ago from a local guy. Use it every time I do the t belt.

I was wondering if people properly torqued the crank bolt and then added the additional degrees like you're supposed to. I recall doing that on my 1st or 2nd timing belt and then having the bolt come loose. My guess was an inaccurate torque wrench.

Now I just MAKE SURE the pulley is fully seated so I don't shear the keyway off (that's what happened when my pulley came loose and fell off), then I just tighten the living **** out of the crank bolt. Probably not 'ideal' but works every time.
I do, every time and always

Use the "aircraft" torque method - you know how it goes: just as soon as you think it's safe to go back in the water - just done it that way since I first started with a Volvo - peace of mind - you CAN break those cranks - seen it done, at the dealership (long ago and far away)

I keep a stiff paper 60 degree protractor I made from a manila folder ages ago taped to the wall in the garage - just tape it to the crank stub when the time comes for it

You got the holding tool - you got the pull handle and pipe - just cut yourself out a protractor - it adds no hassle to the job
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Old 08-14-2017, 05:30 PM   #22
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I took it back apart and inspected everything. There is no nub.
Here's what the parts should look like.
Circled nub fits into circled slot.





Quote:
Got it torqued to 200 with a long socket extender.
Over tightening can snap the bolt, snap the crank nose, strip the threads, or distort the bolt past its "elastic" stage and weaken it enough that it doesn't hold pressure any more.

Missing nubs can (possibly) let the balancer slowly rotate from the crank's firing pulses, bringing the bolt with it until it's loose enough to let go, especially if the bolt torque has been "compromised". The nub does an important job!

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I keep a stiff paper 60 degree protractor I made from a manila folder ages ago taped to the wall in the garage - just tape it to the crank stub when the time comes for it
The bolt also has 6 sides (and 6 points). 360/6 = 60 degrees per point. I usually just make a visible paint-pen mark on the balancer where a pre-torqued (45 ft-lbs) bolt point is, and 2 corresponding marks on the socket. Line up the first mark, tighten to the second mark. Done.
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