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Old 03-25-2019, 01:05 PM   #1
swedish-rocket
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Default 11s on a basic build?

Has anyone run 11s on fairly mild build with a 530/531 head. I was able to run 12.9@106 car weight is 3415 lbs letting my 72L transmission shift at 5500 rpm. I have a rev limiter set at 7000 and the turbo I have still feels like it has a lot more breath in it. I was scared to push the 13mm Rods any harder.
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Old 03-25-2019, 01:21 PM   #2
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https://robrobinette.com/et.htm

Play around with a drag calculator. The ET has a lot of other variables in it related to how well the car launches, but it will still give you an idea about how much HP difference there is between a 12.9 time and an 11.9.

Don't forget to add your weight into the car's when playing with the calculator.
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Old 03-25-2019, 01:27 PM   #3
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Hey, you could run a .8 second quarter mile with 1,000,000 HP! Trap speed 1620 mph.

Seriously though, it's crazy how much more HP you need in order to be just a second faster.
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Old 03-25-2019, 01:40 PM   #4
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Quick answer, no. At that weight you're not going to get into the 11's with a mild build. Kenny went into the low 11's with his 740. A lot of time and effort went into that achievement.
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Old 03-25-2019, 01:43 PM   #5
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Looks like another 90 whp would get me there, dropping some weight and a better launch. Sounds doable. 380-400whp minus the rods exiting the block should get the car there.
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Old 03-25-2019, 01:47 PM   #6
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Right. At that point you are beyond what the rest of the drive train can handle. That's why it really doesn't qualify as a "mild" build. Find Kenny's thread and see how he got there.
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Old 03-25-2019, 01:47 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2manyturbos View Post
Quick answer, no. At that weight you're not going to get into the 11's with a mild build. Kenny went into the low 11's with his 740. A lot of time and effort went into that achievement.
I’m not doubting it, just seems like it could be done. I feel like I could of went faster the day I went but the stock rods were making me bit nervous so I only let the car shift at the stock shift points. I’ve cut 1.80 on a prepped track and 1.96 was the best I could do on the track that day.

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Old 03-25-2019, 02:40 PM   #8
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As long as you can manage to keep it from pinging/detonating at 400 hp, it shouldn't ventilate the block.

But that starts to get harder and harder to do as the HP (and PSI required to make that HP) goes up.

I.e. lots of supporting mods on the motor. And the trans might not survive long at that HP level.

If it was as easy as just letting it go, lots more people would be in the 11's. Instead, you have lots of people rebuilding engines as they get close to that sort of time.
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Old 03-25-2019, 03:32 PM   #9
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Good info guys, I’m trying figure out my stopping point. I’m thinking I’m around 300whp based on the calc. If I put rods in it I thought I could drop my quartermile time but maybe something will go next.
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Old 03-25-2019, 03:38 PM   #10
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I did 12.0@112.5mph on LH 2.4 on a stock block and stock head. Race weight for my car was 3250. That was with an aw71 shifting right around 6900rpm.

For sure it can be done, you just need the right parts. MS, big turbo, hot cam and some head work and you will be there on an 8v pending the supporting mods (header and intake manifold help a lot). Myself I hit a wall around 106mph @20psi with the stock 90+. I ditched the 90+ and built a ugly manifold and I picked up 3mph with the same turbo at the same psi. After that 5more psi and a new intake manifold pushed me deeper. My highest trap speed was around 116mph after my last set of mods but because of other issues I never got the et any better. Once I get my engine back together I hope for 11s with an na block with H beams and a ported big valve 530.

If you went 16v you can get there with a lot less $ head work wise and even the stock intake manifold will make it.
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Old 03-25-2019, 03:46 PM   #11
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I got a Turbo IPD cam, 3 angle Valve grinded seats and radius valves. I think that may help a little bit. After feeling how well the car picked up with the T3/4 turbo and me not high rev shifting it I felt it could of went faster. Each run I was doing was picking up mph. I just wanted to leave the track with a 12 and my motor intact.

Looks like you could do it on your setup. Do you have an aftermarket header and intake?
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Old 03-25-2019, 03:58 PM   #12
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https://forums.tbforums.com/showthread.php?t=272289

Last time the engine was together it looked like this


Go to the end post and work your way back but for sure header and intake. I went through 2 header designs and two intakes to get to where I am at now. Before the throttle body screw got sucked in and killed the motor it was for sure a 11 sec car on the stock block and stock 531 head with my bolt ons but the stars never aligned for me to get back to the track as life has been to busy. I have a new set of slicks here that as soon as the car runs I am going to be using. Same size as my last set just new vs 10years old.
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Old 03-25-2019, 04:14 PM   #13
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Would you guys recommend a exhaust manifold or intake first as a next step?
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Old 03-25-2019, 04:18 PM   #14
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Quote:
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Would you guys recommend a exhaust manifold or intake first as a next step?
yes.
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Old 03-25-2019, 05:14 PM   #15
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Ha,. Exhaust first, worth easy 20-30whp gain. An intake depending on the design can net near the same gain. All they do is help the engine breathe better which can open up all areas of the power band.

Exhaust is typically easier for someone to have made, but an intake you can also buy off the shelf.
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Old 03-25-2019, 06:57 PM   #16
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I think you’ll find the cost difference between building a 300whp redblock and a 400whp redblock is pretty significant.
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Old 03-25-2019, 07:22 PM   #17
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My advice is BOOST and something to reliably control it. Safety measures such as a wideband o2 sensor with gauge as well as a well-discerning ear. Preferably a way to control fuel and spark timing without relying on hopes and dreams. The aw72 is a good platform. Definitely prolong its lifespan with the accumulator mod... might even improve your times a bit.

Edit. A 1.8 60 is great. Are you using drag radials?
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Old 03-25-2019, 07:56 PM   #18
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I got a wideband, I do not have a way of detecting knock. The car is on 23” M&H slicks. I have the AW72L with a 10” fan, two coolers and accumulator mod. The last few didn’t last long on a stock cooler and accumulator mod at less power. They seem not to like high rpm shifts but maybe that’s just a guess. I’m on my 7th transmission,lol.
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Old 03-25-2019, 09:00 PM   #19
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150 shot and send it??.....
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Old 03-25-2019, 09:19 PM   #20
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150 shot and send it??.....
Hahaha... I might as well run it on the 4th of July because there would be an impressive explosion.
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Old 03-25-2019, 10:04 PM   #21
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not if you did a progressive shot, but it still probably wouldn't like it in the end. 75 would drop it a bit. course, if you got a decent head you wouldn't need the naws, just a little bigger turbo.
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Old 03-25-2019, 11:16 PM   #22
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What did you do get the 12.1?
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Old 03-26-2019, 09:01 AM   #23
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little of this, little of that.
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Old 03-26-2019, 09:06 AM   #24
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it did have rods in it for that, more as a function of abuse than too much power.. with the 16g that was on there I had it making something like 32-33psi at 3400 rpms. with a bigger turbo and lower boost, the same power could be made (higher in the powerband a little) without upgraded rods.. but I had to put a bottom end together anyway, and rods are cheap.
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Old 03-26-2019, 01:43 PM   #25
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Quote:
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it did have rods in it for that, more as a function of abuse than too much power.. with the 16g that was on there I had it making something like 32-33psi at 3400 rpms. with a bigger turbo and lower boost, the same power could be made (higher in the powerband a little) without upgraded rods.. but I had to put a bottom end together anyway, and rods are cheap.
How cheap? And where would you buy them from? I had someone local ask about aftermarket rods. If you were only looking to build a 300 HP engine would you spend the money? It's probably a good time to spend the money because he is buying new pistons for this build.
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