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Old 04-19-2018, 12:44 AM   #1
Duder
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Default Different Take on a V8 Swap - Duder's 4.6L Twin Turbo 245

This story starts back in 2005 when I got my first full time job as a CAD designer. I worked for several months on a twin turbo kit for the 2005+ Mustang GT, with twin GT2860RS (Disco Potatos) added to the base V8 car to make something that would compete with a Cobra. I designed the exhaust manifolds, downpipes, and was working on charge plumbing to & from the intercooler when the kit scope changed and it was decided that this was as far as it would go. Originally the idea was a complete solution with tuning and everything, but the version that got sold to the public was a "tuner kit" with exhaust side parts and turbos only, including oil and water lines.





The de-scope was a bit of a letdown for me but I was able to drive the development mule car extensively and was amazed by the power. It made 490whp at <10psi on a Dynojet with this system, plus recalibration of the stock ECU, fueling upgrades, larger throttle body, and deletion of the tumble valves in the intake tract. You would just barely think about touching the throttle and the rear tires would haze. I learned how to keep the car under some semblance of control and had a great time helping develop the kit and taking data. More than the average CAD designer got to ever think about. I ended up in an aftermarket performance application engineer position a few years later but by that time the kit had mostly run its course.





I was pretty proud of the exhaust system design. The manifolds were reverse engineered from the original Ford geometry, and the downpipe outlets are located precisely where the original manifold flanges were. This means any OE or aftermarket exhaust system designed for the stock manifolds would also work with the turbo kit.

In 2010 or 2011 there was still a SEMA display engine gathering dust at work, which had the turbo kit installed. It had not seen the show circuit in several years but was intact and seemingly forgotten. How does this relate to Volvos? Well I was able work out a deal and take the engine home, with nefarious plans in mind. The mule car still exists but this is not the engine from that car; it was only ever used as a display engine for the kit.



Good news is this is basically a zero-mile 2005 3-valve 4.6. It was bought by my friend in marketing from a dismantler in late 2005 or early '06. The story was the original car was out on a test drive when the prospective customer wrecked it. Car got parted out, including the super fresh V8. Here it sits almost 13 years later. Still fresh.



In 2014 I found a 1984 Diesel 245 for sale up in Olympia Washington on craigslist. Diesels are the only post-1975 240s that are smog exempt in CA, meaning engine swaps are feasible. Poik (Eric) offered to check out the wagon in person for me since he was much closer, and reported back its condition. I agreed to buy it sight unseen, sent a deposit, and planned to pick it up a few weeks later when I'd be up in Seattle anyway. Alex Buchka offered to help me drive it back so we made it an interesting 75hp road trip all the way from Seattle to LA over 3 days. I put up this thread about the trip: http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=301120



The wagon got driven around here and there but the plan all along was to put this 4.6 in it. Diesel got pulled in late 2015 and has been around the block a few times since then. The car, however, hasn't gone much of anywhere. It has mostly been in my garage. At some point I thought that if I left the engine close enough to the engineless shell it would start to assemble itself, but no such luck.



I pressure washed the engine bay and successfully got rid of most of the diesel oily shmutz. It still has some in the tank though.




Last edited by Duder; 04-30-2018 at 07:25 PM..
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Old 04-19-2018, 02:47 AM   #2
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A few weeks ago I did the first fit-try. Front end of the car came apart and I pulled the brake booster. Then plucked the engine off of its display stand and removed the turbo kit and oil pan. I took some measurements a long time ago which told me the pan would interfere with the crossmember, and the left valve cover would foul the booster.

Spoiler alert; both of these things were verified.








The sad part of this whole deal is that there's no way the Mustang turbo manifolds or downpipes will fit in a 240. Mustang engine bay is much wider and there's a huge space behind the passenger side shock tower for the right hand turbo to live in, where the battery was originally in that car. No dice on a 240. So my nifty castings and pipuses will have to get hung on the wall or find some other silly use somewhere. I think the turbos will have to live just ahead of the shock towers in this car.

Good news is that the passenger side header/manifold will be pretty straightforward. Lots of room for activities.



Driver's side will not be so easy. Steering shaft is quite close to the exhaust ports on this side. Not to mention the booster thing. I'm considering hydraboost, but I've also heard tell of electric boosters and might investigate that angle.




Master cylinder is just hanging out for now.






The 4.6 oil pan has a radiused edge as the front shallow section drops down into the sump. Rear sump, which is nice, but the pan will need a notch cut out and a squared-off patch welded in. Should be fine. When I pulled the pan, I found out this engine is missing the oil pickup tube. Must have been removed for SEMA prep long ago. Good thing I never tried to start it!



2x4 engine mounts are spacing the block up off the crossmember for now. The pan may also need a clearance hump for the steering rack. And I haven't even tried fitting the hood yet. Might need subframe spacers to create a little more breathing room.
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Old 04-19-2018, 07:15 AM   #3
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That's a WIDE engine! Is this because of the V angle of the 4.6L?

Nice project though! This thing will be a blast!

We're you able to weight the engine at some time?
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Old 04-19-2018, 09:56 AM   #4
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That's a WIDE engine! Is this because of the V angle of the 4.6L?
No - 90 degree V8 just like most of 'em -- but the overhead cams make the heads that big.
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Old 04-19-2018, 09:58 AM   #5
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Interdasting. Proceed.
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Old 04-19-2018, 10:05 AM   #6
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Neat!

I don't live in Cali so no clue, but is there any chance the car could get flagged and brought in for smog (and failure) in the future? I assume you got it inspected and registered initially as a diesel, but is it a 'wink and a nod' type deal from there on out?
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Old 04-19-2018, 12:21 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poulrais View Post
That's a WIDE engine! Is this because of the V angle of the 4.6L?

Nice project though! This thing will be a blast!

We're you able to weight the engine at some time?
Quote:
Originally Posted by M.H. Yount View Post
No - 90 degree V8 just like most of 'em -- but the overhead cams make the heads that big.
Like M.H. says it's a standard 90-degree design. The valvetrain adds all the extra width & height. This 3-valve is kind of the forgotten child in the 4.6 family - the older 2-valves are ubiquitous and cheap, and the 4-valves are the exotic ones. And of course they have all been eclipsed by the 5.0 Coyote which is even wider. The 3-valve heads & valve covers are unique, along with the intake manifold, exhaust manifolds, and probably other little stuff. Block is aluminum which is sweet but I have not weighed it.

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Interdasting. Proceed.
Acknowledged. Will do!


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Originally Posted by JohnMc View Post
Neat!

I don't live in Cali so no clue, but is there any chance the car could get flagged and brought in for smog (and failure) in the future? I assume you got it inspected and registered initially as a diesel, but is it a 'wink and a nod' type deal from there on out?
I suppose there is some chance it could be a problem but I've never heard of this ever being an issue with a Volvo. Something like a Mercedes W123 300D is maybe more of a risk since those were almost all diesels and everyone expects a certain sound, smoke cloud, and air of slowness from those. The fact is that any pre-1998 diesel car is not emissions controlled. There's no way to test it - no infrastructure in place - and therefore no inspection requirement. When I brought the car in from WA not one person needed to physically lay eyes on it. Pure paperwork transfer from out of state, and it's done forever (except yearly fees of course).
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Old 04-19-2018, 12:57 PM   #8
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Man that turbo kit is sweet! I'm really looking forward to this!
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Thank you very much everybody... i now feel sufficiently retarded and will go cry in the corner...
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Old 04-19-2018, 03:03 PM   #9
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Man that turbo kit is sweet! I'm really looking forward to this!
Don't expect too much! Progress will be slow. Engine mount design is next. I have an idea that should work pretty well but need to measure and make some Cardboard Aided Design templates.
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Old 04-20-2018, 02:42 PM   #10
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It’s been forever since someone has tried to stick a 4.6 in.

Daddy like.
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Old 04-20-2018, 02:52 PM   #11
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Love this. What's with the painters tape checkerboard?
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Old 04-20-2018, 03:41 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by doucheNozzle View Post
It’s been forever since someone has tried to stick a 4.6 in.

Daddy like.
Cram it in! Yes, yes! Is it too wide? No, it just barely fits!

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Love this. What's with the painters tape checkerboard?
I was wondering if someone would ask about that. Reverse engineering the 240 engine bay using a Faro arm (Alex's). We took points all over the engine bay and got all of the bolt holes, mounting surfaces, pierce points for the steering, etc. Concentrated more points on the right inner fender to build a surface model there using the grid of tape. It turned out pretty slick and I'm using the bay model to help with my engine mounts and general packaging strategy.
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Old 04-20-2018, 03:44 PM   #13
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Reverse engineering the 240 engine bay using a Faro arm (Alex's).
That's so awesome. I wish I lived out there and could get involved in these types of projects.
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Old 04-20-2018, 04:57 PM   #14
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That's so awesome. I wish I lived out there and could get involved in these types of projects.
Are you going to the Davis show? I'll be in the 2nd-slowest 240 known to man, a pea green 1975 245. Just follow the smell trail of unburned hydrocarbons.
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Old 04-20-2018, 07:06 PM   #15
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That's so awesome. I wish I lived out there and could get involved in these types of projects.
Srsly
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Old 04-20-2018, 07:17 PM   #16
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Ls destroyer. Sweet build.
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Old 04-20-2018, 07:36 PM   #17
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Actually I made a errorz. It was a Romer arm. Owned by a proper Swedish company, not that Floridian FARO stuff!
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Old 04-20-2018, 07:37 PM   #18
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Ls destroyer. Sweet build.
Well at the least, it'll be a tire destroyer. Maybe transmission too. I'll post up some details about the trans that I have for it. Looking at this as more of an experiment in budget speed, and if it blows up, then I'll scrounge some coins for a TKO-600 or something.
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Old 04-20-2018, 08:26 PM   #19
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Looking forward to this. As much as it pains me as a historically anti-ford guy, I think those v8's are the best sounding ones for domestics out there right now.
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Old 04-20-2018, 10:32 PM   #20
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There was a 242 at ipd two years ago with a dohc in it. It was tight in there.
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Old 04-21-2018, 12:24 AM   #21
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Looking forward to this. As much as it pains me as a historically anti-ford guy, I think those v8's are the best sounding ones for domestics out there right now.
Agreed they can sound pretty sweet. But don't worry. I'm offsetting this project and the '64 Viccup with equal helpings of GM in the form of the 5.3L E36 and a Buick Roadmaster wagon.

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There was a 242 at ipd two years ago with a dohc in it. It was tight in there.
This one isn't quite as tight; the 3-valve leaves a bit more space. I may need to offset the whole thing a little towards the passenger side to clear the column though.
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Old 04-21-2018, 01:08 AM   #22
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Are you going to the Davis show? I'll be in the 2nd-slowest 240 known to man, a pea green 1975 245. Just follow the smell trail of unburned hydrocarbons.
Unfortunately no. I'm still rebuilding my engine and between that and the new baby, it just isn't happening.
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Old 04-21-2018, 09:10 AM   #23
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It's super cool to see something a bit different. And the turbo kit you designed looks great!
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Old 04-22-2018, 03:58 AM   #24
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You might get a bmw e32 or e38 relocated brake booster to work.
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Old 04-23-2018, 07:35 PM   #25
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Unfortunately no. I'm still rebuilding my engine and between that and the new baby, it just isn't happening.
Sorry to hear that. One of these days we will need to meet up and geek out. But congrats on the bambino.

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It's super cool to see something a bit different. And the turbo kit you designed looks great!
Thank you sir! Your 142 project is killer. I may just refer to pictures of your engine bay for inspiration of the overall aesthetic for this thing.

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You might get a bmw e32 or e38 relocated brake booster to work.
Cool; thanks for the tip. I'll check into that.
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